Why is cast iron "so" bad?

[jckay]

Hi folks - I was about to purchase a Hampton HI300 but the last two dealers I talked to were so dead-set against cast iron stoves, now I'm back to re-evaluating. They say that the cast iron stove joints end up breaking down over the years as the stoves expand and contract, and then they need rebuilding. One guy was saying Vermonst Castings had a big problem with this and now they are moving away from cast-iron to steel. These dealers are advising that the steel stoves are better because the steel joints are welded, or the steel is uni-body (bent, no seems).

Thoughts?

thx -

 

[webbie]

Well, look at it a couple ways.

1. Most all antique stoves, some hundreds of years old, were made of cast iron.
2. The best oil and gas boilers are made of cast iron
3. Most car engine blocks and exhaust manifolds are made out of cast iron

I think this is a case of the dealers taking something with a grain of truth and then adding their opinion to it. Example: I could probably say that a plastic or metal coffee table would hold up better than that expensive wood one! (scratch less). But you might want a coffee table which looks nice!
'
So there is more to stove shopping than meets the eye.

I have often mentioned that my perfect "stuck on a desert island" stove might be a steel one, because of the smaller parts count. But we don't all buy cars with roll-up windows because they might break less.

Certain soapstone stoves, with cast iron frames and guts, have been known to last for decades in almost perfect condition.

I have sold thousands and thousands of stoves...and, yes, maybe all the cast brands taken together had more parts and service than the steel ones, but at the same time many folks here would not even consider having anything but a cast stove (in their living room!).

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Your dealer is a bit off on his information.

Cast iron stoves are fantastic, so are steel. Cast iron stoves have a bit more character then steel stoves, and the infared light coming off of the cast iron surfaces are a bit more chopped up giving the stove a "softer" heat. All stoves expand and contract, and any stove runs the risk if breaking due to thermal expansion. Honestly it sounds like your dealer wants to sell you what he has in stock. Jotul and VC have made some of the finest casings for over 100 years.

 

[hilly]

I might be a bit confused (it happens on a regular basis) but I thought that the Hampton HI300 was a steel stove with cast outer bits. If so, your dealer isn't very familiar with that model.

 

[begreen]

Exactly, my understanding is the HI300 is a dressed up Regency I2400. Both good stoves, but with a steel box. The dealer is blowing smoke.

PS: Welcome back, Ryan Good to see you drop by.

 

[Corie]

Dealer is DEFINITELY blowing smoke. Wonder why?

 

[jpl1nh]

I love the look and heating capabilites of a cast stove. Yes you may have to rebuild every so often, a bit of a drawback, but you can, over and over, and the stove will still be a great stove. Small trade off for the look and performance IMHO. You need to visit some more dealers with more knowledge or better integrity. I would always beware of somone who outright dismisses a product as opposed to explaining the pros and cons so you can make an informed decision of what best meets your tastes and needs.

 

[BrotherBart]

Dealer is DEFINITELY blowing smoke. Wonder why?

The top sales contest for a trip to Aruba this year does not include cast stoves?

or

He has a current or past customer driving him nuts about a problem with a cast stove?

or

He is like me and is a steel stove kinda guy?

 

[babalu87]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do tell who the dealer was, I would love to either call, e-mail or preferably visit them.

 

[mayhem]

My mother's old cast iron VC Defiant lasted a good 20 years of high temps, 24x7 winter burning and the occasional glowing door overfiring before it started to develop problems.

Your dealer is incorrect and probably misinformed about other products he's pushing...find another that you can trust.

 

[Mike Wilson]

Cast iron looks great, and works fine. Don't be misled. Both cast and steel stoves are great, and either material will work fine for you, depending on your preferences, tastes, home decor, and budget.

Isn't that Hampton an insert? If so, it's just like most other cast inserts out there... a cast front mated to a steel body, like my Kennebec.

-- Mike

 

[Corneluis]

Just think of this, when a cast stove cracks you can replace that part, when a steel stove cracks you throw it out. this is my first time on this site and I think its great. I've read alote of the chats and there are some really smart people here. I don't think that your dealer is blowing smoke I think he's full of somthing else

 

[Jimbob]

Just think of this, when a cast stove cracks you can replace that part, when a steel stove cracks you throw it out.

Not really, you can have a plate steel stove welded. It would have to be an awfully cheap plate steel stove to crack, though. :gulp:

That being said, I don't mind either type of stove. I just wouldn't pay more for a cast iron stove.

Buy whatever your budget and tastes allow.

If you like cast iron, also check out the Alderlea T5.

 

[hilly]

The Alderlea T5 is similar to the HI300 in that it is a steel stove with cast outer parts.

 

[begreen]

I believe it's the same with the smaller Quad cast iron boxes and some of the Napoleons.

 

[jtp10181]

Yeap... all cast Quad stoves are steel boxes with a cast shell just for looks. Some of them actually use the top casting for the top of the firebox but the innards are usually a steel box.

I have had a cumberland gap with a chunk missing where the side loading door hinge pivots. I jacked the unit up with a floor jack under the ash pan, took out 5 bolts. Whole side casting came off. Put the new one on with gaskets in place and got the door all set back in place. Guy never called back I assume everything went smooth.

 

[begreen]

Is the Isle Royale built this way too? I thought that was a full cast iron stove with interior wear plates.

 

[jtp10181]

Yeah I think you are right about the IR. I have yet to take one apart but the last time I looked in one I do remeber seeing some wear plates and it just looked alien inside.

 

[Heat Miser]

These dealers are advising that the steel stoves are better because the steel joints are welded, or the steel is uni-body (bent, no seems).

I just had a chance to look at stoves again. I looked at many steel stoves. They are nice, but I wouldn't say any better than cast iron, just different in how they produce heat (steel tends to have more convection heat, cast iron tends to be more radiant heat).

As for welds, well as someone who does both TIG and oxy-fuel welding from time to time all I can say is don't get too wound up over this. I looked at many welds in some of the stoves. Many of them are quite good and look solid. But I saw some that were not very good at all. They didn't look like they had good penetration and I suspect during the heating/contraction of the box over time they will eventually crack. This may or may not affect the stove. So any stove can have problems, including steel with welds.

Cast iron stoves have been around for a long time. If there wasn't a market for them or they were unreliable and unsafe they wouldn't be sold today. It's best to just look at the stove in terms of what kind of heat you're expecting to get from it and how you like the looks.

Personally I didn't like the look of the steel stoves over the cast iron types. However you can get new stoves that are hybrids with steel fireboxes and cast iron covers. This may be a way for you to get the best of both worlds if you have doubts about the cast iron but still want the look.

 

[BrotherBart]

As for welds, well as someone who does both TIG and oxy-fuel welding from time to time all I can say is don't get too wound up over this. I looked at many welds in some of the stoves. Many of them are quite good and look solid. But I saw some that were not very good at all. They didn't look like they had good penetration and I suspect during the heating/contraction of the box over time they will eventually crack. This may or may not affect the stove. So any stove can have problems, including steel with welds.

Well don't keep us in suspense. Which stoves had the crappy welds?

 

[Heat Miser]

Well don't keep us in suspense. Which stoves had the crappy welds?

It was spotty. I'd look at stoves from the same manufacturer and some would be OK and others I'd say not so OK. The minute I mention any names though it's going to stir up problems and I didn't take formal notes so it's not fair to say anything based on the samples I saw.

My main point is that welded vs. not welded is not a good argument for or against a stove. A bad weld can happen on any stove, even those with a good track record.

I found a webpage that shows what bad welds look like if you're interested:

http://www.weldreality.com/bad weld section.htm

It would be easier to look at the welds in a stove and make your own determination of their quality than for me to pick out specific companies. Even within the same manufacturer's models I saw variations in welds from good to average to not so good.