Why is my Enviro Empress Insert producing so much ash?

[persistentmotion]

I'm new to pellet stoves and I've been doing quite a bit of research in an effort to get my Enviro Empress FPI to burn as efficiently as possible. I purchased the stove used and it was 1 year old and only had about 8 bags of pellets burned through it. After burning about 1.5 bags of pellets in 24 hours, I will shut the stove down and clean it out. When I go to clean it the ash pan is almost completely full of ash. The glass will not remain clean and will have a good layer of soot over it as well. I recently had the insert installed and I put a new 4" stainless steel liner up my chimney (approx. 23'). The installer mentioned how clean and like new the stove was. I did not install a fresh air kit for the stove as my house is not very air tight. I have the pellet feed trim set at 4 out of 5 and the combustion fan blower set at 2 out of 5. This is the factory default settings. I purchased a manometer and checked the pressure in the burn chamber and adjusted the damper until I reached -0.12 to -0.13 inch wc which is what the technical manual calls for. I'm burning Green Supreme pellets that I purchased from Lowes. I don't think the pellets are the problem only because my brother is burning the same pellets (purchased at the same time) in his Enviro M55 and is getting hardly any ash after 3 days of burning 1-2 bags of pellets a day. What gives? Any suggestions?

 

[Lake Girl]

Welcome to the forum! Tried to find the manual for the Empress Insert on-line but none were available.... Hopefully someone with experience with this stove will chime in.

One thing I do note is that you have not installed an OAK... you should as many are set-up only to burn with one. Other Enviro stoves strongly recommend outside air kits... may explain the high ash and soot on glass.

 

[mralias]

I'm burning Green Supreme pellets that I purchased from Lowes.

Change the pellets. IMO

 

[persistentmotion]

Welcome to the forum! Tried to find the manual for the Empress Insert on-line but none were available.... Hopefully someone with experience with this stove will chime in.

One thing I do note is that you have not installed an OAK... you should as many are set-up only to burn with one. Other Enviro stoves strongly recommend outside air kits... may explain the high ash and soot on glass.

I have attached an image of what the technical manual says about a fresh air kit on the stove. It doesn't give much info and the install instructions don't even cover how to hook one up on this insert. The owners manual references the fresh air kit only by saying it should be checked for obstructions annually.

 

[persistentmotion]

Change the pellets. IMO

Well I have 2 tons of these pellets in my garage so I'm kinda stuck with them. I'm hoping they aren't the problem since my brother is not experiencing a high ash issue in his stove burning the same pellets. I may grab a few bags of a different brand just to see if I get the same high ash result.

 

[IHATEPROPANE]

Well I have 2 tons of these pellets in my garage so I'm kinda stuck with them. I'm hoping they aren't the problem since my brother is not experiencing a high ash issue in his stove burning the same pellets. I may grab a few bags of a different brand just to see if I get the same high ash result.

Green Supremes are a very ashy pellet. Couple that with your stove being an
insert and frequent cleanings will be needed. Even with good pellets your insert will need to be cleaned quite often.

 

[Lfdp13RET]

I have attached an image of what the technical manual says about a fresh air kit on the stove. It doesn't give much info and the install instructions don't even cover how to hook one up on this insert. The owners manual references the fresh air kit only by saying it should be checked for obstructions annually.

I just installed this stove on 1/3. I am producing a lot ash as well, 1 bag = clean out , but I do think it is the pellets. Anyway, try increasing the fan trim up, mine definitely liked that.

I don't think they make an OAK for the stove. I personally have no intentions of drilling through the masonry and I don't think I could fit another pipe through the flue.

 

[Lake Girl]

The limited air statement is the clue... poor combustion will produce soot on the door not just the normal fly ash. It is not only a matter of how air-tight the house is - how hard does the stove have to work to get that air into the combustion chamber. With a dedicated intake, there is minimal resistance. Why would you want to throw pre-warmed air out the exhaust in the first place (you already paid to heat it)? Why would you want to have very cold outside air be drawn into through all the weak points and making your house feel colder? There are other appliances in your home that are doing that - dryer, bathroom fans, stove hood - so you could be starving your stove of air....

Did your brother install an OAK? Due to your stove being an insert, there would be far more restriction in your exhaust to begin with and will effect how pellets burn in your stove compared to your brothers.

Seriously consider the OAK and try another pellet. You can always mix the Green Supremes or sell to your brother...

 

[persistentmotion]

Did your brother install an OAK? Due to your stove being an insert, there would be far more restriction in your exhaust to begin with and will effect how pellets burn in your stove compared to your brothers.

My brothers insert does have an OAK and I'm assuming that is what the big difference is. I've contacted the local Enviro dealer to see if they make an OAK for my insert. I'm going to try another brand of pellets too. I'll keep you updated on my findings.

 

[Lake Girl]

Get an OAK

 

[CT Pellet]

Well I have 2 tons of these pellets in my garage so I'm kinda stuck with them. I'm hoping they aren't the problem since my brother is not experiencing a high ash issue in his stove burning the same pellets. I may grab a few bags of a different brand just to see if I get the same high ash result.

Just because your brother is burning the same "brand" of pellets does not mean that he is burning the same pellets. Pellet manufacturers that rely on outside sources of raw material are at the mercy of the quality of the sawdust market. There are many variations from batch to batch with some of these larger manufacturers. Furthermore, your Enviro does not produce ash, your pellets do. The bio-chemical composition of your pellets determines the amount of ash that is produced, not your stove. Believe me, it is the pellet. What brand are you using?

 

[persistentmotion]

Just because your brother is burning the same "brand" of pellets does not mean that he is burning the same pellets. Pellet manufacturers that rely on outside sources of raw material are at the mercy of the quality of the sawdust market. There are many variations from batch to batch with some of these larger manufacturers. Furthermore, your Enviro does not produce ash, your pellets do. The bio-chemical composition of your pellets determines the amount of ash that is produced, not your stove. Believe me, it is the pellet. What brand are you using?

I am using Green Supreme pellets. We purchased 4 tons from Lowes and he took 2 and I took 2. They are produced by New England Wood Pellet LLC.

 

[persistentmotion]

Get an OAK

I spoke to somebody regarding installing an OAK. He said that it would be about 2-3 hours of labor at $75/hr plus up to roughly $150 in materials totaling in upwards of $375. Does that sound reasonable?

 

[Lake Girl]

Not sure as mine is straight out the wall and our rates would be different as I'm in Canada... Hopefully someone else will chime in that has done an insert install. Is that the price from the same installer?

 

[persistentmotion]

Not sure as mine is straight out the wall and our rates would be different as I'm in Canada... Hopefully someone else will chime in that has done an insert install. Is that the price from the same installer?

That was not from the original installer. Mine may be tricky since my firebox does not have a clean out in it. They will have to either drill through the masonry in the firebox or run another pipe to the top of the chimney to supply the outside air.

 

[Lfdp13RET]

The limited air statement is the clue... poor combustion will produce soot on the door not just the normal fly ash. It is not only a matter of how air-tight the house is - how hard does the stove have to work to get that air into the combustion chamber. With a dedicated intake, there is minimal resistance. Why would you want to throw pre-warmed air out the exhaust in the first place (you already paid to heat it)? Why would you want to have very cold outside air be drawn into through all the weak points and making your house feel colder? There are other appliances in your home that are doing that - dryer, bathroom fans, stove hood - so you could be starving your stove of air....

Did your brother install an OAK? Due to your stove being an insert, there would be far more restriction in your exhaust to begin with and will effect how pellets burn in your stove compared to your brothers.

Seriously consider the OAK and try another pellet. You can always mix the Green Supremes or sell to your brother...

Empress only makes an OAK for the free standing model, not the insert

 

[Lfdp13RET]

That was not from the original installer. Mine may be tricky since my firebox does not have a clean out in it. They will have to either drill through the masonry in the firebox or run another pipe to the top of the chimney to supply the outside air.

Only for free standing model

 

[persistentmotion]

Only for free standing model

Just because they don't make a OAK doesn't mean that you can't connect an outside air line to the air intake on the stove. The person I spoke to said that he has installed an outside air line to an enviro empress insert before.

 

[persistentmotion]

Has anybody had an OAK installed on their Enviro Empress Insert that may be able to offer some insight?

 

[Lake Girl]

Read through some previous threads on the board ... does it have the newer control board (2088 version)? Also the M55 is a multi-fuel so has a pot stirrer that pushes ash out of the pot.

Are you getting a build up of pellets or clinkers in your fire pot too?

Finally found an internal drawing for the empress and do not see where fresh air is drawn in from but then it doesn't seem to be the best drawing. It does have a statement about adding a fresh air intake on page 11. (broken link removed)

Edit: We originally installed our stove without an OAK initially. Two weeks later, and lots of reading here, installed the OAK and it burns much better. Just my experience...

 

[Lake Girl]

Has anybody had an OAK installed on their Enviro Empress Insert that may be able to offer some insight?

Have you asked the installer for references who have had the OAK installed on the Empress? May even find someone close who is willing to allow you to see the install and/or find out what their experience was like...

 

[persistentmotion]

Read through some previous threads on the board ... does it have the newer control board (2088 version)? Also the M55 is a multi-fuel so has a pot stirrer that pushes ash out of the pot.

Are you getting a build up of pellets or clinkers in your fire pot too?

Finally found an internal drawing for the empress and do not see where fresh air is drawn in from but then it doesn't seem to be the best drawing. It does have a statement about adding a fresh air intake on page 11. (broken link removed)

Edit: We originally installed our stove without an OAK initially. Two weeks later, and lots of reading here, installed the OAK and it burns much better. Just my experience...

Yes, it does have the newer control board. The agitator on the M55 doesn't push ash out if the burnout, it just agitates it. This was installed so that unit could be a multi-fuel stove. I am getting a slight build up of pellets or clinkers in the burn pot after 24 hours. I am going to increase the air damper and see if that make it burn any cleaner even though it will increase the pressure in the burn chamber above what the technical manual calls for. Figured it can't hurt. I am still looking for some high quality pellets to try as well.

 

[Lake Girl]

Go for it Keep us posted on how you make out...

 

[chken]

I'm new to pellet stoves and I've been doing quite a bit of research in an effort to get my Enviro Empress FPI to burn as efficiently as possible. I purchased the stove used and it was 1 year old and only had about 8 bags of pellets burned through it. After burning about 1.5 bags of pellets in 24 hours, I will shut the stove down and clean it out. When I go to clean it the ash pan is almost completely full of ash. The glass will not remain clean and will have a good layer of soot over it as well. I recently had the insert installed and I put a new 4" stainless steel liner up my chimney (approx. 23'). The installer mentioned how clean and like new the stove was. I did not install a fresh air kit for the stove as my house is not very air tight. I have the pellet feed trim set at 4 out of 5 and the combustion fan blower set at 2 out of 5. This is the factory default settings. I purchased a manometer and checked the pressure in the burn chamber and adjusted the damper until I reached -0.12 to -0.13 inch wc which is what the technical manual calls for. I'm burning Green Supreme pellets that I purchased from Lowes. I don't think the pellets are the problem only because my brother is burning the same pellets (purchased at the same time) in his Enviro M55 and is getting hardly any ash after 3 days of burning 1-2 bags of pellets a day. What gives? Any suggestions?

When you say soot on the glass, what color is it? Gray or brown or blackish?

As for the manometer reading, I would take that as the start value. Pressures should not get any lower than the stated value, but can be higher.

Obviously, you're not getting a good burn, the question is why. Does a feed of 4 and a fan of 2 sound right? Why wouldn't the fan also be 4? Try upping the air and see how that works.

 

[steamguy]

I've had an Empress FPI for a number of years and perhaps I can shed some light.

First, your door-glass sooting and ashpan filling are a result of your pellet quality. Honestly, I'd rather have the ashpan catch the remainder from the fire than have to clean it out of the innards of the stove. Quality from batch to batch of pellets varies wildly. I use one brand, from one source, exclusively and with most batches, the stove burns nice and clean, and with others it's like I'm burning old tires.

Second, you have to adjust your draft to take best advantage of your pellet quality. This is your problem right now. Your draft is set WAY too low. This is what's causing your glass to soot up so badly.

Open your front casting door and look below the firebox door glass on the left. There is a lever to adjust your draft. Move it about an inch at a time, see how it burns for a day, then move it again if necessary. (Although this first time I'd move it an inch and a half to two inches.) Adjusting the damper will have a real effect on the long-term buildup of soot on the glass. It won't affect how much ash you're getting in the catch tray, that's just noncombustible material from your pellets.

From my Empress Technical Manual:

Pellet quality is a major factor in how the pellet stove will operate. If the pellets have a high moisture content or ash content the fire will be less efficient and has a higher possibility of the fire building up and creating clinkers (hard ash build-up). If this happens, move the Slider / Damper to the right slightly to increase the air flow to the fire.

Some fuels may require higher or lower settings.

• If, after long periods of burning, the fire builds up and overflows the burn pot or there is a build up of clinkers, this would be a sign that the pellet quality is poor, this requires more primary air, the slider
damper must be moved to the right to give the fire more air. The easiest way to make sure that an efficient flame is achieved is to understand the characteristics of the fire.

• A tall, lazy flame with dark orange tips requires more air – Push Right

• A short, brisk flame, like a blowtorch, has too much air – Push Left

• If the flame is in the middle of these two characteristics with a bright yellow/orange, active flame with no black tips then the air is set for proper operation.

Now, about outside air kits. The Empress FPI has no fitting for an OAK. You can install one if you really think you need it, but my house is fairly tight and I have never needed an OAK.

Honestly? I'd try adjusting the damper before I ever considered installing an OAK. Just MHO.

Hope that helps you.