wire pulling question

[Rick Stanley]

I hear a string and shopvac will do for pulling control wire(in my case) through underground conduit. Haven't tried it yet. My question is, what kind of string is good to leave in the conduit for adding wires later if needed? I would think some kind that will stay strong and not break down for years. Is there a special string used for this?

 

[burnham]

Greenlee jet-line, or anything like it. It's a thin nylon line that breaks around 200lbs and holds up well.

 

[electromagn8]

Tear off a corner of a plastic bag and tie it to the end of the string, stick it in one end of the conduit and suck it through the other end.

 

[hkobus]

Yes this works well to get a line in a dry conduit, once there is lube in it it may get tougher to suck it through. Anything light and a bit smaller than the conduit size should work. Use a light line to suck through as a pilot then use it to draw a 1/4 or 3/8"( or heavier if needed for big cable or long distance) nylon rope through. When you are ready to pull the cables through, re-attach your pilot string to pull back in for future use.
A bit of planning saves a lot of grief, don't skimp on the rope strenght and use plenty water soluable lube to help reduce the friction. Get someone to assist feeding the cables in so snaggs and tangles won't stop a steady pull, once you have to stop it could take a lot to get the movement started again and the rope or cable may not care for that. ( specially with long 50ft + lenghts)

Hope this helps.

 

[Rick Stanley]

Great!! Thanks guys. Hearth.com is to me , what Carl Rove was(so they say) to "W". Hearth.com is Rick's brain

Anyway, I have 1" pvc gray conduit, 10 ft. lengths and all I need put in it(for now) is one piece of 18/8 thermostat wire. I'm thinking that will pull through fine without lube. I may even put it in as I'm putting the 170 ft. of it together. But I do want something left in there for the future. Maybe your heavier rope idea for that because it might pull harder the second time around with wire already in there. Nylon clothesline rope maybe?

Guess I'm set.

Thanks again!!

 

[2.beans]

if you leave rope in the pipe with and try to pull in more wire with the old wire still in the pie you run a chance of the burning the insulation off of the old wire. youre better off pulling out the old with a rope tied to it and pulling both wires in at the same time.

 

[88rxn/a]

there some great ideas here....

 

[Rick Stanley]

if you leave rope in the pipe with and try to pull in more wire with the old wire still in the pie you run a chance of the burning the insulation off of the old wire. youre better off pulling out the old with a rope tied to it and pulling both wires in at the same time.

Ok, so, using that rational, I'll just put in the 18/8 and be done with it. I like it. Thanks.

 

[hkobus]

Great!! Thanks guys. Hearth.com is to me , what Carl Rove was(so they say) to "W". Hearth.com is Rick's brain

Anyway, I have 1" pvc gray conduit, 10 ft. lengths and all I need put in it(for now) is one piece of 18/8 thermostat wire. I'm thinking that will pull through fine without lube. I may even put it in as I'm putting the 170 ft. of it together. But I do want something left in there for the future. Maybe your heavier rope idea for that because it might pull harder the second time around with wire already in there. Nylon clothesline rope maybe?

Guess I'm set.

Thanks again!!

I would be very cautious with using gray 10 ft lenght. There are may scenarios wher this did not last under ground. (assuming you are burying this) Joints have the nasty habit of coming undone and letting in water. I would highly recommend using the black PE pipe, buy a 250 or 200 ft length and cut to fit, this eliminates all the joints and is possibly much cheaper.
I would not at all pull that lenght without lube, 8/18 has no strenght (and it will be impossible to make it a straight run, creating some friction) at all and you would be very disappointed to find some or all leads broken. Also when you use lube (and lots of it, rope burn will not be an issue)
If you think you may use the conduit for high voltage, you need to lay one more to protect you low voltage from interference.

Sorry for being long winded, but I have learned the hard way and hope you don't have to.

Henk.

 

[mass hills]

Gray schedule 40 or 80 pvc pipe is fine. Glue the joints and use greenlee string. If you are thinking about future wires just run another pipe while you have an open trench. Have the trench at least 12 inches deep to prevent damage to pipes.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Hogstroker is correct...I just got finished messing around with the landscape lighting at work, 1/2" and 3/4" PVC conduit was used, a lot of it was filled with water. I personally believe most electricians do not use primer, just the glue. The primer softens the pipe/fittings so you get an actual solvent-welding of the pipe/fitting into one unit..... don't forget, if you will at some point in time run a 120v. line, use separate conduit. I've used a Greenlee vac/pull plugs/jet line in EMT, never used it in PVC. Run the rated, real pull string...it's stronger than you think!

my .02

 

[Rick Stanley]

This isn't like I expected it to be. I'm putting 1-1/4" dual pipe insulated pex, a 1 inch water line, a piece of direct burial 12/2 romex, and a control wire in my trench. Of all of these, I thought the little control wire would be the easiest. Now I'm reading all these posts and am re-thinking it. My trench is 170 ft. long to avoid running water and heat pipes through an attached,unheated ell and barn. I figured it would be better to have it all below the frost line instead of trying to insulate pipes in an unheated space. I still think so.
BUT, why do the wires have to be in the trench, I wonder quietly to myself Maybe I'll save myself some grief, if it's that risky and that big of a deal going through underground conduit; and just run the wiring through the barn. The trench between the unheated barn and the garn building would be only around 50 ft and could be shallower for easier access if there ever were a problem without digging up all of the pipes. What say you?

 

[Jim K in PA]

This isn't like I expected it to be. I'm putting 1-1/4" dual pipe insulated pex, a 1 inch water line, a piece of direct burial 12/2 romex, and a control wire in my trench. Of all of these, I thought the little control wire would be the easiest. Now I'm reading all these posts and am re-thinking it. My trench is 170 ft. long to avoid running water and heat pipes through an attached,unheated ell and barn. I figured it would be better to have it all below the frost line instead of trying to insulate pipes in an unheated space. I still think so.
BUT, why do the wires have to be in the trench, I wonder quietly to myself Maybe I'll save myself some grief, if it's that risky and that big of a deal going through underground conduit; and just run the wiring through the barn. The trench between the unheated barn and the garn building would be only around 50 ft and could be shallower for easier access if there ever were a problem without digging up all of the pipes. What say you?

Rick - what you describe is what I did. I chose to also run half of my supply piping in my garage as well as the wire. I have 53 feet of trench with the insulated in place 1.25" PEX. I put TWO runs of gray PVC conduit in the trench - one 1.5" diameter for signal and data wire, and a 2" diameter run for higher voltage (120VAC). My garage space will be heated, but I am going to heavily insulate the rest of the 60 feet of 1.25" PEX that is hung along the ceiling of the garage. I'll have some more pics posted later this week of the PVC and PEX runs.

BTW - I am running multiple redundant runs of signal wire as well as higher voltage wire. I will put in one run of CAT5 for the phones and any future data-logging I may want to do. Some of my control wire will be for exactly that; Aquastat and relay controls. Some of the signal wire will be for remote temperature sensing. One of the higher voltage runs will be for remote fire/smoke sensing and signaling. I am going to have a hard wired detector in the space above the GARN that will sound in the garage and in the house. Since odds are I won't be in the garage should it ever sound (God and Murphy forbid), I thought it wise to have it sound in the house too.

 

[Tony H]

No reason you have to bury the long length of thermo wire if you can run thru the barn and the same goes for power. The greenlee pull string is the best stuff to use in conduit for small wire if you have to pull hard enough to break it your wire is damaged. The PE utility pipe works great because it has no connections to leak. Pulling lube should be used on any pull over 50' or more than 1 90 with "indoor" type cable because the sheath is not designed to take a heavy pulling force. I have found that nearly all joined pipe that is buried here in N. Illinois leaks after a while with the exception of threaded pipe.
When you run in the thermo wire factor in the length related to the wire gauge and instead of 2C run the 8C so you have some additional leads to double up if needed because of distance and while you are doing it pull in a couple of CAT5 wires so you don't have to mess with repulling later. I have seen many times where the addition and repull is a huge headache.
I have 2 2" and 2 1" pipes feeding to my garage and boiler shed and have designed and installed 100's of buried and aerial cabling systems.

 

[Rick Stanley]

No reason you have to bury the long length of thermo wire if you can run thru the barn and the same goes for power. The greenlee pull string is the best stuff to use in conduit for small wire if you have to pull hard enough to break it your wire is damaged. The PE utility pipe works great because it has no connections to leak. Pulling lube should be used on any pull over 50' or more than 1 90 with "indoor" type cable because the sheath is not designed to take a heavy pulling force. I have found that nearly all joined pipe that is buried here in N. Illinois leaks after a while with the exception of threaded pipe.
When you run in the thermo wire factor in the length related to the wire gauge and instead of 2C run the 8C so you have some additional leads to double up if needed because of distance and while you are doing it pull in a couple of CAT5 wires so you don't have to mess with repulling later. I have seen many times where the addition and repull is a huge headache.
I have 2 2" and 2 1" pipes feeding to my garage and boiler shed and have designed and installed 100's of buried and aerial cabling systems.

Aerial, you say. mmm wonder what would be the best way to run thermostat wire overhead. It's 51 feet between the buildings and will cross a driveway.

 

[Rick Stanley]

We pulled our control wire yesterday. Used a piece of Seine Twine/Mason Line. It's a 100% nylon #18 string I had on hand. You can buy it in any hardware store for a couple of bucks. I pulled 170 ft of it through a 1 in. poly pipe. Used the plastic bag and vac trick to get the twine through. It really surprised me how well that worked, even with a joint in the pipe. Sucked it right through. Then with my wife handling the spool on one end and me pulling from the other, we pulled the 18/7 (I think I said 18/8 before) cable right through with no lube and it pulled pretty easily. After reading posts here I was afraid it would pull hard being that long of a run. Never having tried it, it was hard to imagine it would really be that hard, but you know how that goes.
Maybe it was easy because it was straight and just laying flat across the front yard and not buried already, I don't know. Any, it worked good. Thanks a million

 

[Tony H]

No reason you have to bury the long length of thermo wire if you can run thru the barn and the same goes for power. The greenlee pull string is the best stuff to use in conduit for small wire if you have to pull hard enough to break it your wire is damaged. The PE utility pipe works great because it has no connections to leak. Pulling lube should be used on any pull over 50' or more than 1 90 with "indoor" type cable because the sheath is not designed to take a heavy pulling force. I have found that nearly all joined pipe that is buried here in N. Illinois leaks after a while with the exception of threaded pipe.
When you run in the thermo wire factor in the length related to the wire gauge and instead of 2C run the 8C so you have some additional leads to double up if needed because of distance and while you are doing it pull in a couple of CAT5 wires so you don't have to mess with repulling later. I have seen many times where the addition and repull is a huge headache.
I have 2 2" and 2 1" pipes feeding to my garage and boiler shed and have designed and installed 100's of buried and aerial cabling systems.

Aerial, you say. mmm wonder what would be the best way to run thermostat wire overhead. It's 51 feet between the buildings and will cross a driveway.

Aerial should be used when you can not bury wire as it is subject to the weather, snow and wind loads and the threat of lightning. What you would have to do with thermo wire would be to hang a steel cable and then strap the thermo wire to the steel cable keeping it at 18' or so over the drive but allow some slack/ sag so the wire can sway with the wind. Lightning protectors are required to protect the structure on both ends. I would suggest underground as the best solution both for appearance performance and cost.

 

[Rick Stanley]

Trench contents ready to go.

 

[Rick Stanley]

Trench day, long day.

 

[Rick Stanley]

More trench day.

 

[Rick Stanley]

End of trench day.

 

[88rxn/a]

nice work sir!

 

[Tony H]

Now you got a hole with some pipes in it :ahhh: Whats next ? or as my wife said aren't you guys done with that yet?

Nice equipment it makes all the difference.

 

[Rick Stanley]

I'm gonna fill in the hole