Wood burning insert with low mantle/surround

[TheOscarGuy]

We are looking for a large (3 cu.ft. firebox or larger) wood burning insert for our fireplace. For reference, this is our existing fireplace (the fireplace opening seems small, due to the metal cover on the fireplace):

(broken image removed)

Most other dimensions and clearances for the fireplace seem OK. However, the wooden surround below the mantle seems to throw things haywire. Its combustible surface. The measurements for top of the fireplace opening to the combustible surround (right below the mantle) seem to be below the minimum most manufacturers/codes want.

The one insert I have been able to narrow down that fits the bill (I think) is the Lopi hybrid-frye. The details of the clearances are listed in the document below and they seem to all fit fine:

(broken link removed to http://www.lopistoves.com/TravisDocs/100-01273.pdf)

However, I don't like the "flush" look that much, and I am unsure if flush inserts is a good idea given that we want the stove primarily for heating (and secondarily for aesthetics!).

I imagine at least a few folks around here have had the same problem. What other inserts would you recommend for our setup? I would hate it if the alternative is to remove the wood surround or to have an ugly heat shield sticking our from top of the stove. I really hope that there are some other stoves out there that will work in this case, and that I am not left to the one Lopi hybrid choice which I am not too crazy about.

More details about our fireplace:

Fireplace dimensions:

19.5" Depth
35" Width opening, narrows to 19" Wide at the back wall.
26" Height

clearances:
Hearth depth: 24"
Mantle column 8.5"
Mantle (from bottom of the fireplace up to the wood surround right below mantle): 44"
From top of fireplace opening up to the wood surround right below mantle: 17"

 

[begreen]

Not sure if it would fit but the Hampton HI400 might be worth looking at.

 

[TheOscarGuy]

Not sure if it would fit but the Hampton HI400 might be worth looking at.

Thanks. I did look at regency but HI400 firebox is a little small. I would prefer 3 cu. ft. if I can swing it for my fireplace. There are a few inserts that are smaller that fit the bill. I just want to get the largest one available.

 

[TheOscarGuy]

Any opinions? Could use some pointers from fellow members.

 

[coldkiwi]

Removing the wood surround may be the easy answer.You could replace it with a taller one without too much trouble.That way you get exactly the stove you want.
There is a lot of pre-fabed mantles around.

 

[drewmo]

Unless you have an outlet hidden somewhere, you'll have a cord feeding the electricity to the unit. I think that's more annoying than the shield. We went with a black shield and it really is an extension of the stove. Our mantle is white and looks very much like yours. You might not like it initially, but it'll grow on you. Or, you could go with a white shield. We're VERY happy with our PE Summit. That's my recommendation (if it fits).

 

[Grisu]

Check out the Regency I3100. 18" from top of unit to trim, 19" to mantel. However, make sure your hearth has enough r-value.

The PE Summit only needs 15" mantel clearance but I doubt you have the required width in the back. In fact, the latter may be a bigger problem for putting a large insert in than the trim/mantel.

 

[TheOscarGuy]

Check out the Regency I3100. 18" from top of unit to trim, 19" to mantel. However, make sure your hearth has enough r-value.

I have17" from top of unit to trim so 3100 won't work. And you are right about summit that does not work due to the width and depth being too small for our fireplace.

 

[Grisu]

I have17" from top of unit to trim so 3100 won't work.

Do you have 17" from the top of the I3100 or from the top of the fireplace opening? The I3100 is not quite as high as the fireplace (23" vs. 26") so it may be close but should work. The other question will be if you have 27.5" width at a fireplace depth of 16". That's how wide the I3100 is in the back.

How about extending the hearth and putting a Woodstock Progress with the short leg kit in front of the fireplace? Your fireplace opening should just be tall enough to make that work.

 

[TheOscarGuy]

Do you have 17" from the top of the I3100 or from the top of the fireplace opening? The I3100 is not quite as high as the fireplace (23" vs. 26") so it may be close but should work. The other question will be if you have 27.5" width at a fireplace depth of 16". That's how wide the I3100 is in the back.

Ah I see what you are saying. I will have to measure the width at depth of 16" -- good point.

How about extending the hearth and putting a Woodstock Progress with the short leg kit in front of the fireplace? Your fireplace opening should just be tall enough to make that work.

Wife hates the idea of having a standalone unit in front of the fireplace. Seems like waste of space to me too.

Is it easy to make the fireplace bigger? Or is it lots of $$s?

Going to check out lopi hybrid frye today. I will give the dimensions to the dealer and see what their take is on it.

 

[Grisu]

Wife hates the idea of having a standalone unit in front of the fireplace. Seems like waste of space to me too.

It will be a compromise and you will have to decide if you want to sacrifice that space for a stove but there are several advantages: You will get a large stove, you don't need a blower, you will retain more heat in the house as the fireplace looks to be at an exterior wall, and you have a cooking surface which may come in handy during a power outage. Plus, the Progress is catalytic which means you get a more adjustable heat output and longer burn times. The Hybrid-Fyre is supposed to work similar but from the reports here I doubt you will have the same kind of control as with the Progress.

Is it easy to make the fireplace bigger? Or is it lots of $$s?

I guess that totally depends on by how much. Chipping a few bricks is usually not that difficult. Ask your installer as the Hybrid-Fyre also looks to be a bit too wide in the back.

 

[TheOscarGuy]

It will be a compromise and you will have to decide if you want to sacrifice that space for a stove but there are several advantages: You will get a large stove, you don't need a blower, you will retain more heat in the house as the fireplace looks to be at an exterior wall, and you have a cooking surface which may come in handy during a power outage. Plus, the Progress is catalytic which means you get a more adjustable heat output and longer burn times. The Hybrid-Fyre is supposed to work similar but from the reports here I doubt you will have the same kind of control as with the Progress.


I guess that totally depends on by how much. Chipping a few bricks is usually not that difficult. Ask your installer as the Hybrid-Fyre also looks to be a bit too wide in the back.

Thanks a lot for responding. I will ask the installers if they can move a few bricks to fit the stove, if push comes to shove. I will be sure to ask about it today when I meet with them.

Yes, I am guessing it will be out by about an inch or so, and if the installer is OK with it I will live with it. However, the open concept while more practical as well for cleaning etc. isn't going to fly in the household. I actually do like the fact that inserts come with heaters, I would much rather have convection heat rather than radiant heat. I think it helps in moving the heat better than radiant heat.

 

[TheOscarGuy]

Thanks a lot for responding. I will ask the installers if they can move a few bricks to fit the stove, if push comes to shove. I will be sure to ask about it today when I meet with them.

Yes, I am guessing it will be out by about an inch or so, and if the installer is OK with it I will live with it. However, the open concept while more practical as well for cleaning etc. isn't going to fly in the household. I actually do like the fact that inserts come with heaters, I would much rather have convection heat rather than radiant heat. I think it helps in moving the heat better than radiant heat.

So the fyrealso isn't going to fit. I have very small straight area before the fireplace narrows. The fyre needs atleast 10" straight back at the same width (before it narrows) and ours does not cut it.

Looks like I am going to have to start looking at smaller inserts, something I did not want to do given the large area is has to heat up.

 

[Grisu]

Maybe check the Lopi Freedom with mantel/trim shield: (broken link removed to http://www.lopistoves.com/product-detail.aspx?model=212#inst-tab) It does not need much depth.

The depth of the Hearthstone Clydesdale can be adjusted and it allows the use of a mantel shield.

 

[TheOscarGuy]

After calling a few places looks like montpelier/VC is the one that will fit. We are disapointed as this stove is supposed to be in our main living room and I would ideally want to get longer burn times...

 

[glennm]

I just replaced a Montpellier with a 3100. Too bad you're not close, I would like to sell the VC. The 3100 is a heat producing monster!

 

[TheOscarGuy]

I didn't want to create a new thread so I thought I will put an update into this thread itself. I don't know how to change the title of thread to reflect our changed requirement?

So we seem to be relaxing some constraint we have placed. My wife seems to be open to the idea of a free standing stove right in front of the fireplace, but vented in it (back vented) so we don't see the pipe. With given clearances, do I have any option for a free standing stove or do they generally require more clearance than their insert counter part.

 

[Grisu]

Their clearance to the ceiling is usually higher but if you pull the stove far enough out that the mantel is not over it you should be ok. You would only need to be concerned about the flue then but with a double-wall pipe that should not be a problem. However, the only large stove that may work in your case is the Woodstock Progress Hybrid due to the low height of the fireplace opening. I would give them a call, describe your situation and ask them for advice.

(Hmm, just realizing you may need to use single wall pipe. That would require 18" clearance while you only seem to have 17". Maybe a heat shield for the pipe would be a solution?)

 

[TheOscarGuy]

Their clearance to the ceiling is usually higher but if you pull the stove far enough out that the mantel is not over it you should be ok. You would only need to be concerned about the flue then but with a double-wall pipe that should not be a problem. However, the only large stove that may work in your case is the Woodstock Progress Hybrid due to the low height of the fireplace opening. I would give them a call, describe your situation and ask them for advice.

(Hmm, just realizing you may need to use single wall pipe. That would require 18" clearance while you only seem to have 17". Maybe a heat shield for the pipe would be a solution?)

I love that stove and would be great if we could get it. I have sent a note to woodstock folks and will see what they have to say.

 

[TheOscarGuy]

The customer service got back and with a little hearth extension they said its possible! I am unsure if hearth pad is all we need or something else. Also side clearance reqmt. is 12" while we have a little over 7" from side of fireplace to side of wood trim/leg.

Any idea how does one go about ordering it and then installing it? The company seems to take online orders for stoves. I would imagine shipping will be too costly here (Boston).

 

[KB007]

I'm surprised you can't fit an i3100 in there - Regency lists the size required as 25H X 28W X 17D. Have you pulled the old to get accurate dimensions all the way to the back? The 18" to trim may also not be an issue as the i3100 does (or can) sit down a little below the front hearth if you need to. Ours sits in the fp opening about an inch below our hearth height.

If I was going to do it, I'd be inclined to pull of that surround, out in the insert you want and build a new surround / mantle. If the vertical clearance was off by a bit, put in another row or bricks. In the end, IMHO it's better to get the insert that's gonna perform best and then think about the cosmetics.

 

[Grisu]

The customer service got back and with a little hearth extension they said its possible! I am unsure if hearth pad is all we need or something else. Also side clearance reqmt. is 12" while we have a little over 7" from side of fireplace to side of wood trim/leg.

You will need to place the stove a few inches in front of the fireplace to also avoid the mantel. At that point the trim won't be aside the stove anymore. Make sure the hearth has the required r-value especially with the short leg kit.

Any idea how does one go about ordering it and then installing it? The company seems to take online orders for stoves. I would imagine shipping will be too costly here (Boston).

They are in Lebanon, NH, about 2.5 hours from you. Shipping should not be too bad or you can drive up, pick out your stove, and take a tour of their facility to boot. If you don't want to do the install yourself, look for a certified sweep to do it for you: http://www.csia.org/search or (broken link removed to http://nficertified.org/pages_consumers/consumers-1.cfm)

 

[TheOscarGuy]

I'm surprised you can't fit an i3100 in there - Regency lists the size required as 25H X 28W X 17D. Have you pulled the old to get accurate dimensions all the way to the back? The 18" to trim may also not be an issue as the i3100 does (or can) sit down a little below the front hearth if you need to. Ours sits in the fp opening about an inch below our hearth height.

If I was going to do it, I'd be inclined to pull of that surround, out in the insert you want and build a new surround / mantle. If the vertical clearance was off by a bit, put in another row or bricks. In the end, IMHO it's better to get the insert that's gonna perform best and then think about the cosmetics.

The 28" opening is fine at the mouth but our fireplace narrows. I can probably work with a heat shield to get the clearance to mantle reduced but I don't see any way it will fit all the way in with fireplace width narrowing as we go in.

 

[begreen]

Several inserts are designed with a taper to the rear. This is not an uncommon fireplace design.

 

[Wood Collector]

I just bought an Enviro Venice... is has a tapered body front to back. They have (4) models and each model has (2) different fire box sizes as well. worth looking at and Enviro get some pretty high reviews on here.