Wood drops down, stops burning

[Mnebears]

We're absolute newbies and are trying to learn how to use our new Vermont Castings Montpelier II fireplace insert, having never had a wood burning stove before. We’re finding that when the supporting kindling and fatwood has burned away, the logs (which are burning well up to that point) drop onto the floor of the stove and then stop burning. This happens no matter how we arrange our logs to begin with. In short, when the log/logs are lying flat on the floor of the stove, the fire goes out. Any advice on what to do?

 

[john26]

Try putting the kindling on top of your splits top down style fire. It helps heat your chimney to establish draft as well. There are lots of threads on here about it. read through this thread it may help.

Starting a fire and running an EPA stove

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[Mnebears]

When we do that, the logs that the kindling lies on top of don't catch fire very well, and it just goes out. I'm wondering if we should have a grate, and if anyone would suggest this as a solution.

 

[bholler]

When we do that, the logs that the kindling lies on top of don't catch fire very well, and it just goes out. I'm wondering if we should have a grate, and if anyone would suggest this as a solution.

You absolutely should not have a grate. What moisture content is your wood at?

 

[peakbagger]

Sorry for the obvious question but are you working your way down in size initially?. Until you get some coals in there you need to use intermediate size wood 2x2 to 3x3.

 

[gthomas785]

You need more intermediate size pieces somewhere between the kindling and split size. Ideally pieces of all sizes to start out with. Just split a few of your big pieces in half or quarters.

It sounds like the large pieces are not really "burning well" if they go out that easily. The medium pieces can hold the big splits up longer until the fire is fully established. Do also check your moisture content - trying to start a fire with poorly seasoned wood is one of the most frustrating and futile endeavors in the history of humankind.

 

[bikedennis]

The "logs" should be dry and split. Don't put unsplit wood except small pieces on the fire until you have a well established fire and/or a bed of coals.

 

[begreen]

It sounds like the firewood is not fully seasoned and damp inside. Take a log and split it in half. Press the freshly exposed face of the wood up against your cheek. Does it feel cool and damp? If it does, the wood needs longer seasoning. An inexpensive moisture meter will be more specific. The wood should be under 20% moisture when tested on the freshly exposed face of the wood.

 

[firefighterjake]

Assuming seasoned wood . . . top down fire is the way to go.

 

[agonyzhou]

I have the same stove. This stove has no user control so there are no many possibilities. Most likely you have wet wood. Buy a package of the supermarket firewood and try to burn that. The only other possibility I can think of is that you turn on the blower too soon. Don't turn it on until your stove looks like a portal to inferno.

 

[Mnebears]

Thanks for all the ideas! We're really babes in the wood with this thing. The wood is very dry, having been stored in a dry barn for 3+ years. It burns very well initially, and does continue to burn. It's still burning well when the kindling is all gone from underneath, but goes out within a few minutes of touching the floor of the stove. I've built the fire by taking two small pieces of wood and inserting them front to back to make a little platform for the wood to sit on (and so that I can put kindling and paper underneath the logs). This assemblage all burns well until the two side supports are burnt up, then the wood goes "plop" onto the bottom of the stove and stops burning. I've tried the top down fire and will keep at it, but it seems this is more complicated than I thought. We bought the Montpelier because it didn't have lots of controls, and we wanted to keep it simple since hubby has had a stroke and I'll be doing most of the stove operation. Thanks again for all the ideas.

 

[gthomas785]

So from what you're saying it sounds like there's only one layer of "big wood" on top of the kindling? Try adding more pieces, just as it's getting to the point where it might fall down, so you're always maintaining a 3 dimensional pile of wood.

 

[Mnebears]

I'm fiddling with it, using all the suggestions here and trying to get it to keep burning (after the point at which it usually stops). I feel hesitant because I'm really afraid of overburn and not sure how I would recognize it. It's not a very big firebox, so there's not lots of room to pile on more wood. When it burns vigorously up near the top I get a bit scared! A lot of the wood I have is the right size but is not split, so some pieces are too big to put much else in there besides kindling.

 

[begreen]

Are you loading the wood E/W? If so, the fire may need some air underneath to help it start. Make a couple sleepers using ~1" x 12" splits or small branch rounds, or a 12" 2x4 split in half. Place the two sleepers about 6" apart laying N/S on the firebox floor. Then stack the firewood as normal, E/W on top of these two sleepers. They will allow air to get under the wood for an easier start. You can then either do a top down light or put 1/4 of a SuperCedar between the sleepers and pushed in a few inchces. Light and that should get things going if the wood is very dry.



When reloading on a coal bed, this will be unnecessary. Just rake the coals forward toward the door before adding new wood.

 

[john26]

Does the stove have start up air controls?

 

[begreen]

Does the stove have start up air controls?

Yes, the Montpelier II has the ACC start control like it's sibling Quadrafire Expedition II.

 

[gthomas785]

I'm fiddling with it, using all the suggestions here and trying to get it to keep burning (after the point at which it usually stops). I feel hesitant because I'm really afraid of overburn and not sure how I would recognize it. It's not a very big firebox, so there's not lots of room to pile on more wood. When it burns vigorously up near the top I get a bit scared! A lot of the wood I have is the right size but is not split, so some pieces are too big to put much else in there besides kindling.

I would suggest splitting the wood smaller and using more pieces.

 

[Mnebears]

Thanks for the replies. Begreen, your diagram shows exactly what I've done and it has made good fires that burned well. I didn't know the terminology, but the sleepers burn through sooner than the logs they're supporting - and when they do, those logs drop down onto the floor and stop burning within a few minutes. So what happens is that I turn my attention away briefly (five minutes) and come back to logs on the bottom of the stove and no fire. I'm trying now to put a lot of smallish pieces of wood and kindling in the bottom and then, when it's burning very vigorously, adding a log on top. Not sure what will happen when the kindling and sleepers have stopped burning, but this does have a learning curve! Gthomas785, splitting the wood is difficult for me as I'm a small and not very strong person. Some of my wood is split into smallish pieces, some is unsplit, some is in between. I was hoping to use all of it without having to become a logger myself.

 

[vbu]

I have the quadrafire version of this stove, and I've never had trouble getting it started. Make sure you hit the ACC (bottom left lever, push it in until it clicks) is activated when you go to light it. There's an air intake right in the middle of the stove, at the very front, usually I'll sweep the ashes from that little grate so the air can move freely through it. When you hit the ACC, that's where the air will be entering the stove, in addition to the normal air intake. Use plenty of kindling, and I usually stuff it as full as I can get it without smothering the fire. I don't think you can really overfire this insert, since you have no control over the air intake, so it should be engineered to where you cannot overfire the stove unless you have a really strong draft. Usually my firebox will look like an inferno 10 minutes after I've lit it, so don't be worried about big flames, that's how you heat your house lol

 

[Mnebears]

Thanks, VBU. I was a bit terrorized by the instructions that came with the stove. There are Warnings! Fire! on every page, and a long screed about the dangers of overfiring, but nothing about how to tell when this is happening. They show one of the inserts on a video at their site, which shows a fire that looks like the entrance to a hellmouth, and that seems to be acceptable - so it was confusing to me exactly what you could do to make a more raging fire than that one. I haven't had any trouble at all in getting the fire going, but I've had a problem keeping it going past a certain point.

 

[kennyp2339]

Please post a picture of how your loading your firebox, also in the pic show a dollar bill or something that everyone has so we can reference the size. Also I'd play around with the air start up lever, push it in during the initial light up of the kindling wood, then every time you load the stove hit the start up lever so more air goes into the firebox, I'm assuming that the lever will re-set itself to the off position based on either time or firebox temp.

 

[agonyzhou]

Seems like you did not put in enough wood. For a successful top down burn from cold, you need to densely pack the wood with a base at least 16'' wide (there can be some gap to the sides) with top less than 2'' from the tube. For soft wood that's at least 15 LBs and for hard wood that's at least 20 lBs.

And relax, unless your blower malfunction or you have unbelievable dry wood chopped very fine, it is not going to overfire from a cold start.

 

[Grizzerbear]

Its helpful after a few ....or several depending on what your burning...loads to have some ashes to build a little tunnel under your wood. Shove ashes to the left and right and leave a tunnel right in the center of the stove that way air can work under the wood to the back of stove and back around.

 

[vbu]

Thanks, VBU. I was a bit terrorized by the instructions that came with the stove. There are Warnings! Fire! on every page, and a long screed about the dangers of overfiring, but nothing about how to tell when this is happening. They show one of the inserts on a video at their site, which shows a fire that looks like the entrance to a hellmouth, and that seems to be acceptable - so it was confusing to me exactly what you could do to make a more raging fire than that one. I haven't had any trouble at all in getting the fire going, but I've had a problem keeping it going past a certain point.

No worries! I’ve attached some pictures of how I build my fire, might be helpful for you. First is how I make my little base, second is how I build it up, then I close the door. 3rd pic is exactly 10 mins after first pic. I just stuff it full and let er rip. 4th pic is another 10 mins later, so 20 mins after I first lit the small fire starter. I’m sure there’s better ways of doing it, but this is what I’ve always done and has always worked for me. I use the duraflame fire start cubes from camping section at Walmart, half a cube to light the fire.

 

[begreen]

Thanks, VBU. I was a bit terrorized by the instructions that came with the stove. There are Warnings! Fire! on every page, and a long screed about the dangers of overfiring, but nothing about how to tell when this is happening. They show one of the inserts on a video at their site, which shows a fire that looks like the entrance to a hellmouth, and that seems to be acceptable - so it was confusing to me exactly what you could do to make a more raging fire than that one. I haven't had any trouble at all in getting the fire going, but I've had a problem keeping it going past a certain point.

Are you using the Start up control?