Wood Insert: Quadrafire Voyageur or Hampton HI300

[jscs.moore]

Need some advice...I'm ready to purchase a new wood burning insert for my fireplace. I just moved into a Center Hall Colonial (2,000 Sq. Ft.) with electric heat pump for regular heating. I want the insert for supplemtal heating in winter months and have consulted with two local dealers...one pushing the Hampton HI300 and the other pushing the Quadrafire Voyageur. Looks like my existing fireplace will accomodate either insert. My head is spinning with webbing this stuff to death and just want something that is considered a good work horse that will help heat my home in the winter and not be headache to deal with. Of course, each dealer swears by what they are selling...any feedback/advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[velvetfoot]

I have an HI 300 and one of the things I like about it is that you can load it with 16"+ splits front to back. It has a box volume of 2.3 ft3. I just searched on the other stove and it looks like it's 1.9 ft3 and they brag about the flush front, which would seem to tend to make it shallower.

 

[Grisu]

Is that the Grand Voyageur? If yes, both are nice units from reputable manufacturers that should do a good job of supplementing your heat pump when fueled with dry wood(!). I suggest trying a forum search and the review section to read about the pros and cons of each insert.

To throw in another one that is well-liked around here and looks similar: The Enviro Boston 1700 would also be a good choice. Not sure if I have ever read anything but praise about a Enviro wood insert.

 

[jscs.moore]

Thanks...I did a forum search on both inserts a few days ago and it seems the Hampton HI300 received more favorable reviews (almost all 5 stars). The Voyageur was much more mixed, but I have to admit my wife likes the flush front on the Voyageur and thinks it fits our the look of our living room/fireplace mantle better. Some of the bad reviews on the Voyageur seem to be that it's "advance technology" doesn't work that well and one person wrote "always seems to be starved for oxagen." Anyway, dealer tells me most complaints like those tend to be from poor/inproper installation,etc? However, I also know from webbing anything you want to purchase that most people will bother to post bad stuff when they have a complaint about a product rather than a positve. I just don't want to make a bad decision on this because for both units installed...I'm looking at about $4,300 bucks!!

 

[cableman]

I just scored an un-used brown enameled hi300 for 2400 off cl! Im in the process of getting the liner ready for install.
I installed one for a buddy last year and it really put out some heat with an insulated liner/backwall and block off plate.
Just a great looking insert and i tend to like the look of them sticking out more so then flush.

 

[velvetfoot]

Just a great looking insert and i tend to like the look of them sticking out more so then flush.

And it really doesn't stick out much at all. Here's a pic right after I had it installed:

 

[begreen]

Both of these stoves are good looking. The Voyageur is one of the nicer looking flush units on the market. Quad makes good products but the flush face of the Voyageur is the main negative IMO. Flush inserts are too reliant on the blower to help them convect heat for my liking. The Voyageur also uses non standard sized firebrick. Treat them nicely or there could be a surprising replacement cost for a new set or be prepared to cut standard pumice brick down to fit.

 

[jscs.moore]

Hey Velvetfoot...great picture! I am definitely leaning toward the Hampton HI300. A neighbor has one and he also raves about it. I just hit another obstacle though...it looks like the nice wood work diretly under our wood mantel on our existing fireplace doesn't provide the proper clearance. My wife is absolutley in love with the mantel and woodwork around the fireplace (our Center Hall Colonial has wainscoating in the living room with matching woodwork around the fireplace, etc.) If I go with the Hampton, the next step will be getting my wife to agree to ripping out some of the woodwork/mantel to meet the clearance requirements...ugghhhh

 

[begreen]

Have you considered installing a mantle shield as an alternative?

 

[orionsbelt77]

Need some advice...I'm ready to purchase a new wood burning insert for my fireplace. I just moved into a Center Hall Colonial (2,000 Sq. Ft.) with electric heat pump for regular heating. I want the insert for supplemtal heating in winter months and have consulted with two local dealers...one pushing the Hampton HI300 and the other pushing the Quadrafire Voyageur. Looks like my existing fireplace will accomodate either insert. My head is spinning with webbing this stuff to death and just want something that is considered a good work horse that will help heat my home in the winter and not be headache to deal with. Of course, each dealer swears by what they are selling...any feedback/advice would be greatly appreciated.

I have had a Quadrafire voyageur insert since 2011 and it has worked flawlessly since. I burn everyday from fall till spring in this insert. I clean the flue with a sooteater cleaning system twice a year and have had zero problems. It puts out tons of heat even without the blower and with the blower, could probably heat the entire house. I burn with the air wide open at all times to keep the flue hot enough to exhaust the gases quickly, but the hot coals keep heat output after the fire has died down for the night.There are many inserts available by many manufacturers and I may have been happy with any of them, but this one offers the best open glass view of the fire.

 

[begreen]

Welcome. Burning the stove with the air wide open all the time could burn out the stove. It's not intended to burn like that. It also is likely wasting a lot of fuel, especially if secondary combustion is poor.

Does it take the air all the way open to maintain a good burn? If the stove is not overfiring it could be that the wood is not fully seasoned. Or does it have a short chimney?

 

[orionsbelt77]

I wish to add, that once the fire is going and up to perfect operating temperature, there is no visible smoke coming out of the top of the chimney, just hot air. I clean my flue twice a year because I am mainly O C D and not because of any problems, but I have a tall chimney and worry needlessly of too much accumulation of soot or creosote, thus the frequent cleaning. I get maybe a coffee can full of soot per cleaning, twice per year. I have a stainless steel six inch flue running roughly twenty five feet up, from the appliance to the exhaust point. No matter what anyone says, burn hot to keep those gases moving up and out as quickly as possible and refrain from running slow burning , cool exhausts up your flue. In burning slow, you run the risk of collecting creosote in a cool flue which will result in a buildup of creosote that you do not want under any circumstances.

 

[begreen]

If the flue temps are continually excessive they can damage the liner and shorten its life. The flue gases need to stay above 250F at chimney exit to prevent creosote condensation. After the wood has passed the outgassing stage there is no creosote worry. Running the insert wide open can have the flue temps over 1000F. If the wood is dry and fully seasoned there is no need to burn so hot. It is wasting fuel, hard on the insert and possibly deteriorating the liner.

If the wood supply is poorly seasoned then running it wide open may be necessary. Damp wood cools down the fire and smoke a lot. If the wood has had a good couple years to season then the risk of creosote buildup is much less. Most folks can burn several cords in a season and have minimal (a cup or two) creosote buildup and it is the fluffy kind, not glass creosote. The key to a clean chimney is dry wood, not running the stove pedal to the metal.

We can't tell what temp the stove is running at nor the flue temps. Has the stove or liner temperature ever been measured? For reference, once the fire has settled into a steady burn we see about 650F on the stove top and 500-550F for flue temps.

 

[orionsbelt77]

Welcome. Burning the stove with the air wide open all the time could burn out the stove. It's not intended to burn like that. It also is likely wasting a lot of fuel, especially if secondary combustion is poor.

Does it take the air all the way open to maintain a good burn? If the stove is not overfiring it could be that the wood is not fully seasoned. Or does it have a short chimney?

No., I have a tall chimney, which means the top portion of the flue could. and will, cool, thus the formation of creosote. This will happen only upon initial fire up when warming up both the appliance and the flue. Upon starting the fire, I keep the door open partially to insure a good hot fire to warm up the flue and begin to combust all the wood within the firebox. I allow fire to exhaust up the flue for a short time to insure warming of the flue, before I close the door. Once that is accomplished, and I am satisfied that the fire is burning as it should, I close the door tightly and do not have to open it unless adding fuel to the fire. Reducing the air flow will reduce wood consumption, but will also reduce flue temperatures. By running the insert hot at all times, insures both wood consumption and I get the maximum heat from it. My situation may differ from others, but for me, this works the best. If I want, after a time , to reduce the heat output, I may reduce the amount of fuel I place into the insert. We live in a climate that runs the gamut from the twenties above to twenties below zero, so I require that I gain the most btu's out of my appliance as I can get. This insert does all I ask of it , in any temperatures. I love it!.We used to burn in our open air fireplace unless negative pressure in the chimney, which was most often the case. prevented it. But with this new system, it works awesome. There are times, when very cold, I have to open a window to overcome negative pressure, but it is short lived, as with the new flue, I regain positive pressure quickly, and can start a fire.and get it up to temp quickly. I do not overfire the appliance or the flue. One should be able to, or at least be able to discern what works for them in a short period of time. As I said, there is not one quick fix for everyone's situation. One must determine for ones' self, what works, and what does not for their particular circumstance.

 

[begreen]

That sounds like lots of assumptions, not a measured facts. 24 ft is not overly tall. Remove the surround and measure the temp at the flue collar with an IR thermometer If it is reading over 500F you can rest assured it will be well over 250F at the top of the stack once the flue has warmed up.

Here's another stove running wide open:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/30nc-air-inlet-burned-out.141092/

 

[orionsbelt77]

That sounds like lots of assumptions, not a measured facts. 24 ft is not overly tall. Remove the surround and measure the temp at the flue collar with an IR thermometer If it is reading over 500F you can rest assured it will be well over 250F at the top of the stack once the flue has warmed up.

Here's another stove running wide open:
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/30nc-air-inlet-burned-out.141092/

Well, it is not as though I have flames shooting into the air from the chimney cap and the appliance is becoming molten. My air tubes are not warped, nor are the baffle boards turning to dust. I burn according to my experience with this particular insert and my outside chimney. I burn good dry wood, oak and birch primarily with occasional maple. I use dry kindling to get the fire going and add small split pieces of the aforementioned wood to that as the fire progresses. Once the fire is established, I close the door tightly and leave the air controls full open. The appliance in this mode does not overfire and the fire appears much like in the videos of proper fires in the voyageur, with rolling flames, no flames going up the flue. If I turn down the air flow, the fire continues, but at a much slower pace, with reduced heat. Quadrafire itself, says I can run it on high air intake for maximum heat output. I need that heat and so far I have not damaged the appliance , nor the stainless steel liner. The ONE thing I would never do is to run the appliance with the door cracked once the fire is established, for to do so would absolutely overfire the insert and the liner. Remember, I am OCD, I love my woodfire heat and would never jeopardize any part of the process or the appliance which I depend on for such heat. I love burning wood. I appreciate the input, but as the saying goes, "You have to see it, to believe it". The place we bought and had install the appliance and flue insert sent a guy to come out to light and observe the first fire, brought wet wood with him, which did not go well. I brought out dry wood to add to his wet wood and things got better, but he had made a smoky mess. The next fire, I had made and all went well and all since then. I know my wood and I know my insert and chimney and I know how to make and sustain a proper fire, without damaging any and all parts of the system. Again, thanks for the concern.
Without being here, you cannot know for certain what occurs and I am sure you are basing your concerns based upon the norm. Thank you again. These abnormalities do come up from time to time and it benefits all who come here for answers. as all experience different results.
Once again, thanks, pal. Orionsbelt77.

 

[begreen]

Before assuming it is ok I would call Quadrafire support and ask if they endorse the premise of running the stove wide open continuously. And if OCD, put an instrument to measure the flue gas temps at the top of the chimney.

 

[orionsbelt77]

Before assuming it is ok I would call Quadrafire support and ask if they endorse the premise of running the stove wide open continuously. And if OCD, put an instrument to measure the flue gas temps at the top of the chimney.

Chill. For one, Quadrafire maintains that the optimum chimney height for their insert is 14-16 ft. I have 25 ft. Quadrafire says that if the chimney height is over the recommended height, which mine surpasses by 9ft, I should be wary of burning slow, low heat fires and to do so increases my chances of creosote buildup because the chimney liner will cool to the point where tars from burning wood will condense and buildup on the interior surface of the liner, which is what I, and I would assume any wood burner would like to avoid at all costs.. Upon rechecking the manual, as if I needed to, Quadrafire has no restrictions on burning with both air controls wide open, unless over firing occurs, which it never has in my situation. As I stated earlier, I know my appliance and my chimney, and how they work together. Quadrafire knows everyone's situation is different as well and they state such in their manuals and instructional videos. Play it by ear, so to speak. Quadrafire absolutely will not honor any warranty claims on a appliance that shows signs of abuse or neglect. I love my insert and will not abuse nor neglect any part of care or maintenance it requires. This thing cost me a bundle to purchase and have installed. I am not made of money, and I need this thing to last me a long time . I know your heart and mind is in the right place and thanks again for looking out for me. I write this more for future readers looking for common ground, than a one size fits all post. In other words, let's all do what works for us as a whole, while giving each other pointers in wood burning techniques that we have learned through experience. I am an old guy now, but younger ones are coming up behind me and have the same questions about technique as we did when we asked our forefathers. Let's provide them the answers they need to continue the tradition. Happy flames!

 

[begreen]

I'm sure you love this stove. It's a good one. Hopefully you are correct with your assumptions. FWIW, I've never seen a stove mfg. endorse wide open burning, I just sent them an email asking about this setup and operation. The taller chimney increases draft which pulls more heat from the stove up the flue. Running the flue liner constantly over temperature will hasten its demise. Without instrumentation there is no way of knowing whether the flue temp and flue liner temp is 350F or 1050F. Running with the air wide open can allow an excess of unburnt gas to go up the flue because the vacuum in the firebox that enables robust secondary combustion is weaker. Too much air is being pulled through the primary air port instead. Suggesting this is a good practice for others (young-ones) is not a good idea. It may be the exception but it is not the norm. And yes, I have been around the block and clock a long time too.

 

[orionsbelt77]

I'm sure you love this stove. It's a good one. Hopefully you are correct with your assumptions. FWIW, I've never seen a stove mfg. endorse wide open burning, I just sent them an email asking about this setup and operation. The taller chimney increases draft which pulls more heat from the stove up the flue. Running the flue liner constantly over temperature will hasten its demise. Without instrumentation there is no way of knowing whether the flue temp and flue liner temp is 350F or 1050F. Running with the air wide open can allow an excess of unburnt gas to go up the flue because the vacuum in the firebox that enables robust secondary combustion is weaker. Too much air is being pulled through the primary air port instead. Suggesting this is a good practice for others (young-ones) is not a good idea. It may be the exception but it is not the norm. And yes, I have been around the block and clock a long time too.

Hi. I have suggested that my set up is not the norm. What can and has happened, to others, is that with a tall chimney and running up the outside of the house and running a stove at low output is that the flue cools enough to backdraft. Sometimes it is a hot backdraft and other times a cold one.
I wish to avoid both. Now, if I miss a day of burning during cold weather I get a cold downdraft at the appliance as by negative pressure. This is not unusual with a tall outside chimney. To overcome the negative pressure I must open a window near the insert and wait for the pressure to reverse before I attempt to light a fire, otherwise I get a room full of smoke. I know taller chimneys have a tendency to create more draft than shorter ones. One thing I have to do is to check whether the installers removed the cover for the outside air intake. It could just be that the reason I can run both air controls wide open with no problem is because the thing simply is not getting the air that it should and does not overfire.. I will let you know what I find out. I should also point out that before I had the insert installed, I burned fires in the masonry fireplace and had a battle with negative pressure at times so bad, nothing I did could overcome it. I tried hairdryers, propane heaters, to no avail and had to give up. The cover I referred to allows room air to enter. The cover remains in place when venting air in from outside via a port in the side of the insert. Talk to you soon, bud.

 

[jophysx]

Running wide open may get you the most heat, but definitely not the most heat per pound of fuel. You have massive heat being lost up the chimney due to excess air. Sound like you want it that way due to a healthy fear of creosote. But you might consider trying to run the stove at a lower air flow. Many, many people on this forum, myself included have the opposite philosophy. The airflow should be set at the minimum value needed to keep the fire burning efficiently. And people who run the stove this way get great heat and do not have creosote problems. I also have about a 25' exterior chimney, uninsulated flue. I clean once per year and get less than a coffee can of fluffy creosote.

Try it. You'll like it!

Jim

 

[jophysx]

I take back my comments. If you really have backdraft problems when the insert is burning, well, that's a different story. I don't know why that would happen, but if you say it does, I believe you .

 

[velvetfoot]

Yeah, that's really weird. And dangerous?

 

[jophysx]

One more thing to keep in mind about creosote. Creosote is the result of incomplete combustion. Volatile compounds capable of burning but unburnt due to lack of oxygen or a not-up-to-temp firebox can condense on the surface of a cool liner. There are multiple ways to prevent this. One is to run with lots of air supply which will keep things hot and lead to complete combustion, as well as a hot flue. Another way is to run the stove at a complete combustion condition so all the volatile compounds get burned in the firebox. If you are burning like that, the risk of creosote formation is low, even if the flue relatively cool. The creosote issue is mainly at startup when you will definitely have unburned volatiles going up into a cool flue. You want to get the firebox up to temperature quickly to get out of this stage. Once you have reached a steady operating temperature and are cruising along at 600+ with secondaries blazing away, and no visible smoke coming out the stack, the risk of creosote is pretty minimal.

 

[begreen]

Sometimes it is a hot backdraft and other times a cold one.
I wish to avoid both. Now, if I miss a day of burning during cold weather I get a cold downdraft at the appliance as by negative pressure

Is this a basement install?

Negative pressure and backdrafting may not be caused by the 26 ft chimney. That is not that tall. More likely it is caused by the stove location, house conditions (like a very well sealed house or one with an upstairs window or an attic vent open), competing appliances and/or exhaust fans, or local terrain. If the house is tightly sealed or there are competing appliances, one can test to see if an outside air supply would help by opening a nearby window a 1/2" or so and observing the fire. If that improves the situation then the stove is starving for air and could use an outside air supply.