Wood or natural gas?

[EatenByLimestone]

I'm feeling a little left out of the ongoing "Should I burn pellets or oil?" debate going on. I figured we should have one over here too!

Should I burn wood or natural gas this winter?

 

[Supersurvey]

We have natural gas heat and supplement with a Hampton HI200 insert and will continue to supplement with wood as long as I can replenish any used wood with free wood. Any savings is still a savings and at least wood is renewable.

 

[billb3]

Eversource supposedly wants a 40% increase in electric rates based on their projections of natural gas prices this Winter.
Might want to keep some of that seasoned oak handy.

 

[fire_man]

I got this from Woodstock Soapstone. It says NG is cheaper than Wood.

Wow look at the electricity comparison. Glad I kept my trusty oil fired hot water heater and did not listen to the "switch to electric water heater" crowd.

 

[fire_man]

Eversource supposedly wants a 40% increase in electric rates based on their projections of natural gas prices this Winter.
Might want to keep some of that seasoned oak handy.

I can't find the news blurb on Eversource looking for big increase. But wow, that's a big increase.

 

[billb3]

I got this from Woodstock Soapstone. It says NG is cheaper than Wood.

Wow look at the electricity comparison. Glad I kept my trusty oil fired hot water heater and did not listen to the "switch to electric water heater" crowd.

Their calculator appears to assume all burners achieve BTU at a 100% conversion rate.

real world pellet costs would be closer to $25/mBTU, firewood at $15, oil a bit higher depending age of burner


I don't use the new math though so my results may different

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I had a new utility bill come in yesterday. After all taxes and fees I paid $40.94 for 176 kWh and $32.62 for 17 therms of NG. that works out to 23.26 cents per kWh and $1.91per therm of ng. the price per therm will go down in winter as usage goes up and the $20.35 charge for the privledge of being hooked to the gas line is spread out. I think it was around a dollar per therm last winter. Unfortunately the $17 electricity privilege charge doesn't get spread out much in the winter. I guess that's a plus...

 

[Oldman47]

Eversource supposedly wants a 40% increase in electric rates based on their projections of natural gas prices this Winter.
Might want to keep some of that seasoned oak handy.

Total BS. Nat gas is at its lowest price in many years.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

We really don't know what is in their projections. NG price could only be a part of it. Maybe they are expecting lots of ice and are hoping to pay for crews to come in from other states and fix it. Maybe most of their grid dates from the 50s...

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Based on the projections of the Drama llama in the cubical next to mine....

Based on the retirement aspirations of our board of directors...

Both of the above had a part in the decision, and the statement could have been based off them, but the NG one sounds better.

 

[billb3]

Total BS. Nat gas is at its lowest price in many years.

It goes up every Winter here in Ma being that we are at the end of the pipe.
Every year Eversource and National Grid request a rate increase for the Winter months based on what projected nat gas rates will be (among other purchased electricity).
Last year we jumped to 27.3¢
Jumped back down to 23¢ in May or June I'd have to check my bill.

 

[Seanm]

Wood for sure. I have natural gas here as well and the heat just isn't the same. Theres lots of talk on this thread about the cost of gas but lets not forget the comfort difference of the two heat sources. Natural gas will readily heat the air but a solid wood heat that is consistent will heat the objects around it and spread heat through the home that you will feel through to your bones. Wood heat will linger long after the stove goes cold but forced air natural gas will have to keep firing.

 

[blades]

Actual gas cost is but a negligible part of cost- where you get hammered is all the add ons. My own Ng section of the utility bill runs something along the lines of 2-3 x the actual NG cost for all the extra charges. Just having the dang meter& regulator hanging on the house is a minimum of about $15/mo. without using any NG. Electric is worse.

 

[Wisneaky]

It goes up every Winter here in Ma being that we are at the end of the pipe.
Every year Eversource and National Grid request a rate increase for the Winter months based on what projected nat gas rates will be (among other purchased electricity).
Last year we jumped to 27.3¢
Jumped back down to 23¢ in May or June I'd have to check my bill.

I'm never complaining about my electric being at .11 kWh again.

 

[Wisneaky]

I had a new utility bill come in yesterday. After all taxes and fees I paid $40.94 for 176 kWh and $32.62 for 17 therms of NG. that works out to 23.26 cents per kWh and $1.91per therm of ng. the price per therm will go down in winter as usage goes up and the $20.35 charge for the privledge of being hooked to the gas line is spread out. I think it was around a dollar per therm last winter. Unfortunately the $17 electricity privilege charge doesn't get spread out much in the winter. I guess that's a plus...

How do you only use 176 kWh a month? I use sometimes 10 times that. I've been trying to get it down. Lowest I've been in the 9 hundreds.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

It was a multi step process. I moved all appliances to NG that I can. That was the big one. The other stuff chipped away at the totals. I replaced often used lights to LED and upgraded the refrigerator last December. Lots of other things were done also like insulation and air sealing work that lowered the need for ac in the summer. I have a lengthy list of energy improvements I can post if I get to my other computer. I think the largest difference between my house and others are the traffic patterns. I can turn my kitchen light on (which is 4 t8s converted to LEDs) and it functionally lights 3 other rooms if you don't require specific task lighting. So an evening's lights may be my kitchen which is brighter than daylight (~80w/hr) and the kid's bedroom which has the ceiling fan with 3 LEDs that only burn 6.5w each. About 21w per hour. Other stuff goes on and off intermittently

 

[EatenByLimestone]

One thing I did to help focus on where I could change my usage was to go room by room and list everything that drew power 24/7. I listed tvs and DVD players, wall warts and alarm clocks. I measured each with a kill a watt. I focused on the large users where I knew I could make a difference. Lots of things I found only used 10 kWh a month or less. My refrigerator was from Montgomery wards and used 90/month.

 

[MaintenanceMan]

The lower costs of Natural Gas around here sure make the hard work involved in burning less attractive to most. I have a gas furnace and even though it's been getting cheaper to operate over the past few years, I still prefer wood heat. Warmer radiant heat even in a power outage is just hard to beat. I find a winter just dark and abysmal, but something about having that warm stove to come home too is just satisfying and really helps. I need something to do and am not the kind who can sit still. Tending to the stove helps with that too. Even though the cheaper price of gas is making the payoff a bit slower it's still cheaper and as far as I'm concerned saving a little money while staying more comfortable, in the long run, is still better than the convenience of just using the furnace.

 

[billb3]

I'm never complaining about my electric being at .11 kWh again.

" green power" will come to Wisconsin soon enough.

We aim for 100kwh a month here but it often gets up to 140/month

you unplug the same way you quit smoking
it sounds terribly simplistic because it is

you just decide to live differently

not necessarily easy
but not impossible either

 

[EatenByLimestone]

I can't even say I live differently than when I'd use 700 kWh a month. I don't run around screaming for lights to be turned off then, and I don't now. Make smart, informed choices when upgrading your house. Start with the big power users and then work on the low power users. Switching to LED lights might save 10kwh per month. Switching from an electric dryer and water heater to gas powered might save you 200+kWh a month. Cook a lot? What about that stove? Old refrigerator? Chest or upright freezer in the basement? Will sealing the basement walls with foam for moisture let you lose the dehumidifier(s) and then save you money on the heating bill in winter?

 

[billb3]

Make smart, informed choices when upgrading your house.

That is how living differently begins .

 

[Wisneaky]

I can't even say I live differently than when I'd use 700 kWh a month. I don't run around screaming for lights to be turned off then, and I don't now. Make smart, informed choices when upgrading your house. Start with the big power users and then work on the low power users. Switching to LED lights might save 10kwh per month. Switching from an electric dryer and water heater to gas powered might save you 200+kWh a month. Cook a lot? What about that stove? Old refrigerator? Chest or upright freezer in the basement? Will sealing the basement walls with foam for moisture let you lose the dehumidifier(s) and then save you money on the heating bill in winter?

I have LEDs in my house. Gas stove, gas water heater, gas dryer. My fridge and freezer are energy star appliances. Still I use over 900 up to 1400kwh a month. It just blows my mind how we use so much. I'm going to buy one of those meters and test all my stuff to see how much everything is using.

 

[begreen]

We have a few LED lamps, others are CFLs and a few incandescents too. Electric heat, oven, hot water and many wall warts. Propane cook top. We averaged 700kW for the last 30 days.

Back to the original topic. Matt, I would use both this winter. Use gas during the shoulder season and as an overnight supplement during the colder winter days. Maybe keep the thermostat set at 60F or 65F depending on your family comfort level. Use the wood stove for greater winter warmth and enjoyment of the fire.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

Air conditioning and heating? When do you use 1400 kWh? When do you use 900? Looking over my notes most of my energy saving work was ment to keep heat in during the winter, but lessens ac use in the summer.

 

[bholler]

I have LEDs in my house. Gas stove, gas water heater, gas dryer. My fridge and freezer are energy star appliances. Still I use over 900 up to 1400kwh a month. It just blows my mind how we use so much. I'm going to buy one of those meters and test all my stuff to see how much everything is using.

Something doesnt sound right at all have you asked you electric supplier to check your meter to see if it is working properly? Those numbers are extremely high especially considering most of your major power consumers are ng. When are those numbers from are they summer or winter? Do you run air all the time in the summer? And what heat do you have other than wood?