We just bought a 100 year old small (1044-ft2), very non-insulated farmhouse on 40 acres of woods with 10 foot high ceilings in extremely rural northwest WV, where it goes down to -9F in winter. House has shallow coal burning fireplaces in the living room and adjoining bedroom that share the same chimney. Prefer not to rely on propane or a generator. The living room isn't all that large, so we want a 70,000+ BTU non-catalytic wide shallow add-on wood burning stove there to heat the house. The power to the house is not reliable (we had two 10 hour outages in one week recently), so blower fans must not be necessary to heat the house. Because I can't trust the power, I'd like to install upwardly sloping ductwork through the walls to both the bedroom and to the kitchen (9 feet away), fed from the add-on stove's heat duct fitting. If an add-on stove is not practical for any reason, then would a regular stove with a large deep range hood above feeding same ducts work? All of the plumbing is at the rear of the kitchen so it must have good heat (without any electricity being required). Please advise on both my heating situation and which stove(s) I might consider buying. Thank you...
Wood Stove For 100 Year Old Farmouse Advise Request
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This sounds more like a furnace. Wood stoves are not ductable. The nearest return air needs to be 10 ft away from the stove. It might be better to figure out the best convective option for the room. What areas are directly above the living room?
Shallow firebox stoves can not be loaded as fully as a deeper firebox because the wood must be loaded E/W, widthwise. That said, the Lopi Libery is a good 3 cu ft stove with a shallow, wide firebox. If you can be persuaded to consider a deeper firebox at a much lower cost then look at the Drolet HT200O, HT3000 or Austral II and the Englander 30-NC.
Shallow firebox stoves can not be loaded as fully as a deeper firebox because the wood must be loaded E/W, widthwise. That said, the Lopi Libery is a good 3 cu ft stove with a shallow, wide firebox. If you can be persuaded to consider a deeper firebox at a much lower cost then look at the Drolet HT200O, HT3000 or Austral II and the Englander 30-NC.
I was looking at an Englander Model # 28-4000 add-on furnace (33.5" deep) with a ductwork fitting, set in front of the existing fireplace and vented up the existing chimney via double-walled stainless stovepipe. The house has no basement, just a 16" crawlspace between the dirt and the floor. Unused attic above accessible only via outside door, way up there. Was wanting a HyproTherm outdoor forced air wood furnace until the 2000cfm blower fan's large power requirement became known to me. Locals say that the power has gone out for a WEEK or more in the past, so I definitely do not want any system requiring electricity. Hopefully unpowered upwardly sloped ducts from the furnace will work. Or a deep range hood above a stove feeding the two planned ducts. So the thing has to be in the living room and not need power to heat the house. With past labor day outdoor temps at 33 degrees, space heaters totaling 25,500 BTUs kept the bedroom and living room at 60 degrees, and the kitchen at 48 degrees. So the house is simply not insulated. Going to put some fiberglass insulation next year on the floor of the attic to help, but I expect to need 70K-120K BTUs of heat when it goes down to -9F.
I do not understand. Unless the two shallow coal burning fireplaces put out 70K-120K of heat, how did they keep it warm the last 100 years? Did the previous owners let it freeze up until spring?
You first consideration should be insulation this year, 'cause if you get it toasty this year with what you plan, next year you may be too hot after insulation is installed.
Visqueen on the windows if they leak, attic insulation, rolled rugs in front of doorways, etc. will help.
Explain how that is going to happen. It sounds like the goal is to turn the living room into a utility room?
Original listing with an ancient gas heater seated in front of the coal fireplace. Want to put a wood furnace there, vented up chimney.
That looks too familiar. In 76 I bought a house built in the 1880's. It had an oil stove where you have a gas stove. The house was about 1100 square feet. Insulation, windows and storm doors brought wood consumption down from 6-7 cords per year to 2.5-3.
I am working on another old farmhouse. One thing I learned is that it is easier to do a job once. If that is a one story house, I'd remove the old fireplace and chimney. Put a new chimney up through the roof, and install a stove that required minimal clearance to the rear. That would give you a good draft, a safe chimney, and more room in the living room. You would also be done with the project, rather than having to redo it at a later date.
If you remove any unnecessary doors, you most likely will have enough circulation of air that you will not need ducts. Minus 20 was common during the 13 years I heated that place with wood without a backup heat source. With the oil stove, the toilet would ice over. It never did after putting the Earthstove in.
I am working on another old farmhouse. One thing I learned is that it is easier to do a job once. If that is a one story house, I'd remove the old fireplace and chimney. Put a new chimney up through the roof, and install a stove that required minimal clearance to the rear. That would give you a good draft, a safe chimney, and more room in the living room. You would also be done with the project, rather than having to redo it at a later date.
If you remove any unnecessary doors, you most likely will have enough circulation of air that you will not need ducts. Minus 20 was common during the 13 years I heated that place with wood without a backup heat source. With the oil stove, the toilet would ice over. It never did after putting the Earthstove in.
ispinwool
Feeling the Heat
I have no suggestions for you @marsofold , but I am a lover of old houses and 40 acres WITH an old house
is swoon-worthy! Congratulations!
is swoon-worthy! Congratulations!
Per my earlier post, I had used five 1500 watt (electric) space heaters = 25,000 BTUs/hr, that only raised the indoor temps about 23 degrees above the outside temperature (60 +60 + 48/3 = 56 degree average - 33 degrees outside = 23 degree change). 25,000 BTUs/23 degree change = 1087 BTUs/degree change. At 70 degree target indoor temp - (-9F worst case) = 79 degree rise needed. So at 1087 BTUs/degree change X 79 degrees change needed = 85,873 BTUs/hour needed. I'm asuming some fiberglass insulation on the attic floor will reduce heat loss by 20%, so 85,873 BTUs/hour X 80% = 68,698 BTUs/hour. Rounded up to about 70,000 BTUs/hour needed.
Ok so with those figures most large wood stoves should be able to handle the load even in a worst case scenario. 120k BTUs is overkill. And at only 1044 sqft I dont see the need for ductwork.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
You won't need the ducts with a properly sized stove. How much does anthracite coal cost where you live? I have a 1,100 sqft well insulated house and I can keep it warm all winter with a tiny wood stove. Since we installed a wood cook stove that has been carrying the heating load during the day, but at night I light the other stove to keep us warm through the night.
Not to derail my own thread, but here attached is the place. 40 acres of mountainous woods at the left, and 10 acres of pasture to the right ending at a 20 foot wide X 2 feet deep medium flowing creek. I'm so far back in the woods that I get NO mail delivery or snow removal, so I can't rely on the propane man filling a tank in winter. And the electric power is unreliable. So its wood. No other option. Wre love the working 1919 hand pump on the side porch.
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The big issue with a furnace would be venting it. You will need something with a low flue outlet to make it under the lintel of the fireplace. Smoke does not like to go downhill. Most likely the furnace's flue outlet will be much higher. The flue must head uphill leaving the stove or furnace.
Regardless of heater, the chimney will need to be cleaned and a full liner installed.
Regardless of heater, the chimney will need to be cleaned and a full liner installed.
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I honestly don't know. Since two fireplaces (one in the living room and one on the other side of the wall in the adjacent bedroom both shared the same chimney, I assumed that the chimney would suffice for at least one stove of some sort. We are currently living in Pennsylvania to prep our house there for sale before we move to WV in the spring (we currently own both houses). So I'm not there to look. Our WV house is so far back in the boonies that we get no cell phone service for 15 miles in any direction, our nearest neighbor is almost 2 miles away, no mail delivery, no snow removal, address not found on Google Maps...you get the idea. So as a matter of possible survival we have to have a wood fuel option. If the chimney can't be used and all else fails I will look at building an outdoor batch rocket stove adjoining the house for heat.
I know nothing about prefab chimneys. Are they just a heavy stovepipe through the roof? I won't consider another chimney except as a last resort. I was hoping to just run an 8" OD double-walled pipe up inside the existing brick chimney for a large wide stove or furnace to heat the whole house. The problem with heat flowing sideways from a central chimney is that the ceilings are 10 feet high and the top of the door much lower, although we do have those ancient style windows above the doors (visible on the 1st photo) that could be opened for heat transfer.
Sounds like it's discovery time. The flue will need to be cleaned and inspected. It might not even be tile-lined.
If wood is to be depended on it for heat must be dry. Firewood cut in spring will not be ready for burning in fall unless it's standing dead, cut split and stacked with a top cover. If there is some ash then that will dry out fastest. Oak is going to take a couple years to fully season
Is there running water in the house?
Those are called transom windows and they are not ancient lol. They are actually very helpful in distributing heat. Can you show a floorplan we may be able to give advice
Double-wall pipe is not run up the chimney, an insulated, stainless liner is run up it. So far I haven't seen anything warranting an 8" liner. Most stoves require 6". Though an insulated 6" liner will have an OD of close to 8".
Yes, there is running water in the house. And a functional hand pump outside on the side porch for emergencies. Satellite only for phone service, internet and tv. We have a small solar setup (10 ft x 10 ft) for critical functions (phone, internet, lights, and meat freezer). We'd use the big creek for hydropower if it didn't freeze up in winter
. I literally had to photograph the power meter to get the power company to believe there was someone out here to turn on my power. The roads may not be passible in winter. So we really need wood heat to survive here.From looking at the width of the tin on the roof, the exterior of the chimney is 18 wide give or take a couple of inches. If you subtract the width of the bricks, the chimney most likely has an opening of less than 6X6 where the two fireplace intersect. I am assuming from the discription that there are two fireplaces, not one that is open on both sides.
That place screams for a new prefab insulated chimney run straight up. A flashing would tuck under the ridge cap. Straight pipe is cheaper than elbows. It might seem daunting, but if you are going to live there, this will eventually seem like a minor project. The double wall pipe going up the chimney that you are thinking of is going to entail more work and not less money than an insulated double wall prefab chimney.
Count the bricks across the chimney. They are about 6X3.5. You have two long sides and an end going across. That should give you a good idea of the interior and exterior width if it is clear top to bottom.
That place screams for a new prefab insulated chimney run straight up. A flashing would tuck under the ridge cap. Straight pipe is cheaper than elbows. It might seem daunting, but if you are going to live there, this will eventually seem like a minor project. The double wall pipe going up the chimney that you are thinking of is going to entail more work and not less money than an insulated double wall prefab chimney.
Count the bricks across the chimney. They are about 6X3.5. You have two long sides and an end going across. That should give you a good idea of the interior and exterior width if it is clear top to bottom.
Yes, you will need to heat to survive and keep the pipes from freezing. I would set the goal of getting some insulation in, getting a good sized wood stash developed, and doing a proper and safe wood stove installation. By fall, either make some temporary storm windows using plastic stretched on frames or put up real ones with glass.Yes, there is running water in the house. And a functional hand pump outside on the side porch for emergencies. Satellite only for phone service, internet and tv. We have a small solar setup (10 ft x 10 ft) for critical functions (phone, internet, lights, and meat freezer). We'd use the big creek for hydropower if it didn't freeze up in winter
Hydro is worth considering. Does the creek freeze up solid or just on the top? Solar will not work at night unless there is a good sized battery backup. A small generator would also be advised to keep the freezer cold. It just needs to run a few hours at night and during the day.
If you can post a sketch of the floorplan then we can help think about how to best improve heat circulation. This is not a large place to heat. Once heat loss is addressed it should be pretty easy to keep at least the core of the house cozy.
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