Wood stove insert installed - Thanks for the help Hearth.com!

[IrishHunter]

Hello. I've been studying up on my Hearth.com FAQS, and I'm getting close to knowing what questions to ask my local fireplace dealers. Here's the background...

I've recently purchased a home in RI. The original house was built as an 1500 SF 2 story with oil forced air heat and Central AC, with a brick fireplace and brick chimney that runs from the basement to the roof on the south side. This side of the house is not an open design, with 8ft ceilings and 1 staircase. In 2003 an 1800 SF addition was built onto the north side of the house, above the garage. This side of the house is more open, with a huge great room and 2 bedrooms with vaulted ceilings. The great room on the North side has a large Enviro brand gas log that I haven't had much chance to become familiar with.

What I'm interested in is a wood stove insert for the brick fireplace on the south side of the house. I plan to use this initially for ambiance and emergency heating during power outages. I'll need a year to establish a seasoned firewood supply, and will mostly use biobricks or the equivalent in year 1. However, with the price of oil being what it is, I can see myself using more wood during winters in the future, and I'd like to plan for the ability to heat a majority of the house with wood. I've been studying, and the Lennox Canyon C310 appears interesting. This is my fireplace...
The rough measurements are 20 inches of front clearance; 33 inches wide at the front; 24 inches wide at the back; 27 inches tall.

The ability to put a kettle on the top front of the stove would be a nice plus, but is not a dealbreaker. My tastes run towards low maintenance, high quality, best value for the dollar, tastefully subdued ( a little gold or brass trim around the glass and maybe the handle is all the glitz I'd need).

Thanks in advance for your thoughts, and thank you for such an informative forum!

IrishHunter in Rhode Island

 

[Grisu]

Hello IrishHunter, welcome to the forum!

What is the depth of your fireplace? It looks a bit shallow in the picture. If you want to heat 3000+ sqft you will want the biggest insert you can fit in your fireplace. The question will be if you can distribute the warm air through the house. If you can post a floorplan that would help. How wide and tall is your flue? For an exterior chimney an insulated liner would be much better than a standard flex liner but it needs to be wide enough.

Other than an insert you could also extend the hearth and putting a freestanding stove in front of the fireplace. Those usually work better when the power is out and also allow some cooking. You could probably even go bigger then. Do you have a budget?

 

[Dave A.]

Agree with Grisu about the limitations of your fireplace size for any of the really large inserts that would be necessary to fully heat your size house in a New England climate. The main limiting factor is going to be the sloped narrow back unless you want to considering pulling the insert far forward and extending the hearth.

Seems you might be better served considering a large free standing stove in the more open Great Room. It would probably make more sense heating that more open area first and then allow residual heat to filter into the more closed in older part rather than vice versa. Not saying to reject your original plan, just consider other options at this planning stage. A floorplan would help and some more details about the gas log in the great room -- is that inside a masonry fireplace or zc that might be adapted to a stove/insert. Is it possible to move the gas log into the fireplace you have been considering for the insert.

 

[IrishHunter]

The fireplace depth is 21 inches. Here's a sketch of the floor plan - forgive my crude sketching ability...
Further research tells me the Regency H2100 insert maybe a decent choice? As far as putting a freestanding in, thats not really an option due to furniture placement. The gas log appears to be an E-44 or similar, with a custom brick and oak hearth and mantle. That's not going anywhere either.
As far as budget is concerned, I would say that 3-5k total for the entire project is reasonable given my current financials.
Thanks again for the help!
IrishHunter

 

[Grisu]

I guess pictures can be deceiving; your fireplace looked smaller than that. From the rough measurements you can probably fit quite a few large insert models in there but you will have to measure careful because of the slope of your sidewalls. Your floorplan does also not look that bad. The great room will be a challenge but the rest is pretty open, and you should be able to heat it fine. Check out inserts with a firebox of about 2.5 to 3 cu ft; you will need that if you want to heat with wood exclusively. The Regency H2100 would be too small for you. Look at the I3100 instead ( http://www.regency-fire.com/Products/Wood/Wood-Inserts/I3100.aspx ). Other inserts to consider (but check if they would fit!):

Enviro 1700 series: http://www.enviro.com/fireplace-products/wood/fireplace-insert.html
Pacific Energy Summit: http://www.pacificenergy.net/pacificenergy/summit_insert.php
Jotul C550: http://jotul.com/us/products/fireplace-inserts/jotul-c-550-rockland-cb
Lopi Freedom: http://www.lopistoves.com/product-detail.aspx?model=212
BlazeKing Princess (catalytic!): http://www.blazeking.com/EN/wood-inserts.html
Quadrafire 5100: http://www.quadrafire.com/en/Products/5100i-Wood-Insert.aspx?page=Specifications
Osburn 2400: http://www.osburn-mfg.com/en/heaters/model-OB02401-description

See if you can find any local dealers, check them out, and when you have nailed it down to maybe 2 or 3 models you can open a new thread asking specific questions.

For the installation:
Get an insulated liner, you will have better draft and less creosote.
Have them put a block-off plate in or make one yourself: https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/making_a_block_off_plate/
You may not have enough room left but putting Roxul around the insert will also help: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/finally-got-around-to-insulating-my-fireplace.75755/

And as you probably know already: Get your wood split and stacked for next year's winter.

 

[begreen]

The location of the fireplace will be good for heating the core of the house. No problem if you decide to go with your original choice. The Country Canyon is a serious beast of a heater with a wide fire view. It's very well built. The only caveat being that it takes an 8" flue which might complicate things depending on the current chimney ID and height. However, according to Lennox, if the chimney height is over 14 ft then it's recommended to reduce to 6" liner for this stove. That will save some $$ and hassle.

 

[Ed Williams]

I would recommend Lopi or Avalon for ease of maintenance (bypass or easily removable firebrick in smokeshelf allows soot to fall directly in the firebox), aftermarket support (same ownership since they started, resulting in great parts availability and after purchase support compared to most other brands), heavier construction (longer life), and excellent performance without a catalyst (often need pricey replacement).

 

[IrishHunter]

I had a chance to look at pacific energy and regency today. PE offers some rebates currently which makes the price attractive. While speaking with the salesperson, she tells me the back of the firebox needs to be flush to the back of the chimney. Is this accurate? If so, it seems I'll need to step down a size from the large inserts I've been looking at.

 

[Grisu]

How far off is your damper opening from the flue outlet of the stove? If they use a flex-liner they can bend a bit to fit it. Or you could maybe cut out the damper to get the liner and the stove aligned.

 

[madison]

Take your time, evaluate all options. You have some limitations to consider, ie the wood floors and existing hearth dimension in front of the fireplace.

Masking tape, and download a bunch of installation manuals. Mask and measure. And if it is close, assume that any insert will not fit into the existing fireplace exactly as you intend, thus it will project forward.

Though your current fireplace is xx inches deep, it appears to taper to your measured 24" in the rear , the taper makes the estimation of "if it will fit" that much more difficult.

Download, mask, measure. I would also have the stove store visit, estimate, and consider having them do the install, so if it doesn't fit, it is their problem, not your $$.

As well it would be worth the $$ to have the existing chimney cleaned, inspected and commented on by the chimneysweep. I do not think I read any comments or measurements for your existing chimney height etc

 

[Dave A.]

BTW, if the floorplan is accurate in terms of room flow and openings, looks like the original fireplace would not be a bad location for a stove/insert.

If you're not installing yourself, you might want to talk to an independent installer/sweep who's certified and see what he would be able to get in. There are various ways of getting what would otherwise appear to be a too large insert into a too small fireplace. Chipping or removing brick, Flue offset devices, etc.

Was looking at your fireplace in terms of installing something like the PE Summit insert. From your dimension and Summit specs, you're about 1/4" shy of being able to get the Summit all the way back -- you have about 25 1/4" at 18" depth, Summit requires 25 3/8" at 18" depth. I would say that should be doable either by chipping brick or pulling the insert out slightly. The large regency, Buck 91, Osburn 2400, on the other hand would be a lot harder to get in there -- would need to remove brick inside fireplace and maybe do some reconstruction. But you might want to talk to a good independent installer.

Btw, if you intend to fully heat your size house with an insert/stove or come close to it, you're going to want to get the largest stove/insert possible. At least close to 3 cf firebox or larger if possible, something like the Buck 91 which is catalytic. Catalytics will provide even better heat (more uniform heat output usually at higher efficiency), might want to check out the BK's also, The princess is their only insert, iirc.

 

[IrishHunter]

Oh, without a doubt I intend to have the chimney assessed, sounded, cleaned, and the insert installed by a professional.

 

[IrishHunter]

Thought I'd provide an update regarding my wood stove insert project. After looking at specs, speaking with some sales folks, and visiting a couple showrooms, I've decided on a Lennox Performer C210. I'll be sure to post some pics here after the install. I'll also be getting a couple pallets of Envi Blocks delivered this week, as this seems like the most cost effective and cleanest way to run this stove this winter. If anyone has any recommendations on burning Envi Blocks in this type of stove, I'd love to hear them. Finally, I got my propane log and bottle tuned up, regulator replaced (was leaking) and identified - it's an Enviro DV 50D built in 2003. Finding manuals for this gas fireplace is difficult, so I'm referencing manuals for 2005 models.

 

[IrishHunter]

And here we are...

A few practice/gentle burn ins with some Logik-E logs while I wait for my Envi blocks to arrive, and I'll give a bit of a review of the stove and the installer...

 

[madison]

That was fast!

 

[begreen]

Nice, that is a good solid heater. Will you be running it without the surround? I like that look. Did you get a damper-sealing block-off plate installed. With an exterior chimney you are going to want one in place.

 

[raybonz]

And here we are...

A few practice/gentle burn ins with some Logik-E logs while I wait for my Envi blocks to arrive, and I'll give a bit of a review of the stove and the installer...

Congrats and welcome to the forum!

Ray

 

[Hogwildz]

If you burn all biobricks, and you load more than a few at a time, your going to have an insert going thermonuclear.
Be careful burning exclusively compressed bricks.
I think I heard of some manufacturers are now stating not to use them at all or risk voiding the warranty.

 

[raybonz]

If you burn all biobricks, and you load more than a few at a time, your going to have an insert going thermonuclear.
Be careful burning exclusively compressed bricks.
I think I heard of some manufacturers are now stating not to use them at all or risk voiding the warranty.

I agree they can burn very hot due to low moisture content.. A coworker mixed some in with less than ideal wood and that worked OK.. He now has decent wood and loves burning now..

Ray

 

[BrotherBart]

If you burn all biobricks, and you load more than a few at a time, your going to have an insert going thermonuclear.
Be careful burning exclusively compressed bricks.
I think I heard of some manufacturers are now stating not to use them at all or risk voiding the warranty.

That is what I always thought Hog. Last year I bought eight packs of ECO Bricks at TSC to play with them. I could burn six at a time, a 21 pound package, and not have any over-fire worries. Two N/S on each side of a three inch tunnel and two sideways on top of it. More than that at a time would need to be packed tighter. Filling up the 30-NC with them would require re-mortgaging the house to pay for the things.

 

[Hogwildz]

That is what I always thought Hog. Last year I bought eight packs of ECO Bricks at TSC to play with them. I could burn six at a time, a 21 pound package, and not have any over-fire worries. Two N/S on each side of a three inch tunnel and two sideways on top of it. More than that at a time would need to be packed tighter. Filling up the 30-NC with them would require re-mortgaging the house to pay for the things.

Hmmm, or maybe get ya a new house. But damn, now that I said that, your hosed LOL

 

[BrotherBart]

Hmmm, or maybe get ya a new house.

That ain't happening. I paid this barn off early back in February.

The bricks would be an interesting option if they would get the price down from $350 a ton and better distribution.

 

[billb3]

That's a sharp looking stove.
Kinda like no surround too.

 

[brenndatomu]

DANG IT BOY! $350 per ton?!! GEEZ LOUIS, My brother sells the local brand of "enviro bricks" (these have amish craftsmanship too, BTW ) for around $225 per ton, and that's delivered! Heck, he'll even stack 'em in the garage for a couple bucks more...sounds like the brixs vary in price region to region more than actual firewood!

To OP, good lookin install, I was just yesterday trying to talk my sister into running her Regency i2400 with the surround panel off...just to see...

 

[IrishHunter]

Thank you, i think it looks sharp too. I decided to go without side panels to keep the cost down. I picked up 2 boxes of Logik-E fire logs to conduct my burn in, which is going moderate temps for a few hours tonight. The box states very clearly not to put more than 3 at a time in, and since I have a healthy respect for fire, I started with 1 added a second 30 minutes later, and finished up with 1 more an hour later. Temps on the stovetop are sitting about 350 with about 1/3rd of the damper rod out. Wife factor is pleased as well, which many of you likely realize is important too... I'll post a couple more pics when I get it broken in, and I learn to run it efficiently.