Wood Stove is scaring me to death, put me at ease...Please!

[AlaskaCub]

Well with the ever rising heating oil costs this winter I installed a wood stove (its not a really good one though I am thinking of making the big investment on a Quad or Blaze King this summer) and its really nice when its roaring but I tend not to light it much as I am always paranoid something is not right. I installed it myself following all code requirements , even though I am not required to. I am a Fireman and have been to more house fires this winter caused by wood stoves than I care to mention. So I guess its got me paranoid. Heres some pics of my stove and install and one of the things that scares me to death is building up creosote in the elbows but I didn't have any choice on placement because of where the studs were. Does this look Kosher to the experts?

 

[AlaskaCub]

Gosh folks, 55 viewers and no one has any input?

 

[DriftWood]

Nice set up!! to bad you could not have gone straight up with the pipe. What stove is that/ is the stove pipe single wall/ are the vent pieces screwed together with sheet metal screws/ was the install looked at by your areas mechanical inspector/ did you pull a permit for your install/ is the exposed outside pipe tall enough to need support/ why is the snow melting around the pipe/ is the attic vented and stuffed with instillation above the stove? You cant be to hot as the plastic stickers haven't melted yet. Pull them off when you are tired of looking at them as they will melt and smell up the room.

 

[AlaskaCub]

The stove is nothing fancy, its a CFM I bought at Lowes. The Stove pipe is a 48" one piece single wall, I dont know what you mean by vent pieces but I dont currently have any of the single wall pieces screwed together inside (plan on doing that), it connects to the chimney adapter and then to a piece of double wall metalbestos that protrudes about 12" into the room that conects to the double wall metalbestos T outside on the other end of the wall thimble. The snow is melted away because I used a weed burner to melt the snow for install so I could work with the shingles somewhat. It was in the single digits when we put it in. I think my biggest worry is the elbows inside cuz it kinda has 2 changes of direction before 90'ing up off teh double wall T outside. Theres an excellent draft so maybe I am worrying for nothing. Oh and we dont have any inspectors, permits or codes where I live.

 

[Redox]

Is that single wall pipe going from the stove top to the connection at the chimney? I think it needs to be 18" from the ceiling. If it is less, you could replace it with double wall and be OK. Is there an insulation shield where the Class A goes through the soffit? It's also hard to tell from the angle, but is the chimney two feet higher than the roof is at 10 feet (10, 3, 2 foot rule)? Not sure what your stove requires, but this looks like a very short chimney with too many elbows. I think I would have tried to go as straight up out of the stove as possible.

Chris

 

[RonB]

Hi Alaska Cub,
Nice looking set up. I do not think you will have any trouble with creosote buil up in those 2 elbows. I have the same elbows/angles in my application. I don't have a creosote problem at all. However, I do have more chimney height because my stove is located in the basement. What does your stove require for chimney height? Burn it right (I have no doubt you will with your background) and follow some of the other post suggestions on clearance and 3 screws per joint. Burn it and enjoy it!

 

[AlaskaCub]

Is that single wall pipe going from the stove top to the connection at the chimney? I think it needs to be 18" from the ceiling. If it is less, you could replace it with double wall and be OK. Is there an insulation shield where the Class A goes through the soffit? It's also hard to tell from the angle, but is the chimney two feet higher than the roof is at 10 feet (10, 3, 2 foot rule)? Not sure what your stove requires, but this looks like a very short chimney with too many elbows. I think I would have tried to go as straight up out of the stove as possible.

Chris

Its the single wall adapter that connects to the double wall, it is 17 1/2" from the ceiling but I was told by the local wood stove guys that with such a pitched celiing angle at that measurement that I could actually be within 16" of it. I dot have any insulation where the double wall goes through the soffit but plan on doing something with it this summer since thats a big cause for creosote up here on external run chimneys, the pipe is too cool at -40 or colder degrees and it cools te smoke too fast. Why do you think that its too short of a chimney, and how else does one beat the need for the elbows with a through the wall install? Thanks for the input by the way, I am new to all this and have a lot of questions.

 

[fossil]

I have a little stove just like that in my workshop, and I love it. I haven't the expertise of many here on the forums, nor have I any sort of professional background in the subject (I'm retired Navy/Mechanical Engineer)...but from what I've learned here and from other sources, I'd say that if you have good draft, and you burn nice dry seasoned wood, and you don't allow the stove fire to smolder, especially on start-up, and you watch that thermometer you've got on the stovepipe and keep it in the 300*-500* range (which I find pretty easy to do in my shop stove)...you should be OK. Get some screws, 3 or 4 per joint into that piping pronto, so it doesn't fall apart and smother you in flue gas some night. Can't remember the corner install clearances from combustibles from when I put mine in (mine's surrounded by brick), but I'm sure you must have been pretty careful with all those kinds of details. Either learn how to inspect/clean the stovepipe & chimney yourself, or have it done by a pro at least once a year. Don't be scared, be prepared and stay safe. I keep a dry chemical extinguisher near each of my stoves. Rick

 

[grizzly2]

I don't see any problem with the elbow arrangement. I have run similar into a vertical pipe, not a horizontal. Creosote buildup is caused by low flue gas temperatures, wood that is not adequately dried, and burning conifers. Since you have a reasonably short run of single wall, all inside, into insulated pipe, your set up should be no worse than most of us for creosote formation. I have heard that Alaska has mostly conifers and little hardwood. If this is true, you will need to clean the pipes out once or twice per heating season probably. Make sure you wood is dry, and don't let it smolder.

I do believe a spot a non safety related problem though. The roof flashing around the chimney needs to go under the shingles on the sides also. Flashing cement then seals the shingles down to the flashing. The way you have it, it appears water will run under the flashing and into the hole you have cut in the roof. If I am correct in what I am seeing, and you have to make changes, also run the flashing under two courses of shingles at the top also.

Hang in there and like all of us you will learn as you go and gain confidence in yourself as a wood-burner, and in your equipment/installation. :coolsmile:

 

[AlaskaCub]

Thanks a lot for the advice folks. On the flashing for the roof, I gooped this nasty black stuff called Gorilla snot under and all the way around the flashing when I put it in, but I planned on working on it some more this summer. I did place the flashing under the shingles at the top but it was pretty cold when we installed it so I did th best I could. Yeah most of the wood available to me is Birch and Spruce, which isn't the best but its easy to come by. Thanks again.

 

[AlaskaCub]

One quick question, as you can see in the photos that the stickers on the outside havent even burned of the elbow pieces and I have probably had 8-10 fires already, thats why I worry aboutt he creosote build up there, what do you think? That portion of the pipe gets plenty warm.

 

[iceman]

hi
your install looks good
but this is what i would do
1 buy another stove thermometer place it on the stove you want the top of the stove at 500-550 mas 400-500 is good
when you are at that temp check the one on the stove pipe because that should be significantly lower (this is after start up)
2 add another 3ft section to your outside ..i know it may be a pain but then there is no question about height plus it will increase your draft so you won't have to worry about your elbows (which by the way i wouln't worry anyways but if your like many of us for piece of mind this should solve any worries)
happy burning!

 

[fossil]

and burning conifers

...Creosote buildup is caused by low flue gas temperatures, wood that is not adequately dried, and burning conifers...

Some of us woodburners have ready access to nothing but conifers. This fact, coupled with hearing/reading statements like that quoted above, prompted me, some time ago, to start doing some research on the subject of stovepipe/chimney creosote. I've learned some real interesting things, but rather than recount them all to you, I'll simply provide a link to one of many articles out there on the subject. This one happens to be found right here on the Hearth.com website:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/creosote_from_wood_burning_causes_and_solutions

 

[colebrookman]

Welcome to the wood burning club. You've got some good advice just don't forget those fire and CO alarms. As a fireman I'm sure your ahead on those but sometimes we all need a gentle reminder. Best of luck with your new set up.

 

[Todd]

If your worried about creosote in your elbows you could turn those 90 degree elbows into 45 degrees and get rid of that horizotal run. The more vertical the better.

 

[Kansasplains]

I'm too new to comment on the install, but I'm also a fireman and it does make you think twice (or more) about bringing a fire inside your house (even though I grew up burning wood at home). My question is where did you get the wood/tool rack? That looks like a slick little deal. Any idea how much it cost?

 

[jpl1nh]

I'm not a fireman but I have a suspicion that most of those wood stove fires are caused by shear ignorance. Improper chimney set ups, clearances, pass throughs in the wall done incorrectly, and yes, creosote build up too. Wood stoves can seem harmless and cause people to be careless. We've all seen pictures or heard of insane set ups with single wall pipe right thru wood walls, galvanized pipe used for stove pipe, etc. All the advice you got here is great advice. And creosote build up is often one more ignorance issue such as not understanding about properly seasoning wood, burning fires hot enough, or even that a chimney needs to be cleaned. With your concerns and attention, you'll be fine. Nice job and welcome to the forum too!

 

[AlaskaCub]

Thanks for all the advice folks. Yes on most woodstove fires being caused by all of the above but usually you hear that they were gonna clean it, thought it was good for another month, or it was just too cold to clean it. Winters are extreme here and folks have been burning the you know what out of firewood simply because they cant afford heating oil. And with months of sub zero temps with I believe the coldest we saw was -51 with a couple weeks of -40 or colder it is easy to be busy with tough life midwinter and just not clean a chimney and that may be the unlucky night. My install is one that makes it easy for me to maintain it and I kept that in mind when doing it. Good seasoned wood is hard to come by sometimes for folks and burning soo much wood makes it even harder but they have to know that if they are burning wet wood they have to be more aware of creosote build up. And then of course theres the people that disregard all the appropriate materials and or proper install and those are a recipe for disaster and we see those all the time. its just weird after putting out so many fires that were caused by woodstoves regardless of cause, seeing the aftermath of what was once someones home, makes me nervous. The whole wood stove thing is new to me. Thanks again for all the advice.

 

[R&D Guy]

Clean it out every spring and I'm sure you'll be fine.

Do you get smoke in the room when you open the door on your woodstove? I'd think having 3-90's would put so much restriction on your flue that you'd get a lot of smoke in your house each time you open the door. Really bad air in your home could be bad for your health too. I had 2 vertical 90's on my woodstove in my last house so I could use a masonary chimney and if I opened the door at any speed except super-slow I'd get smoke spilling into the room. I never liked that, and I'm sure it added to a lot of bad air in the house.

As far as chimney fires, as noted I think you'll find it to be a issue of home owners who never clean their pipe. At the end of the year, clean it yourself and I think you'll see its a very small about of build up.

Also as noted, adding 45° offsets would add less restriction than your's 90's.

 

[Ken45]

<<<Good seasoned wood is hard to come by sometimes for folks and burning soo much wood makes it even harder but they have to know that if they are burning wet wood they have to be more aware of creosote build up. >

That's why it's important to lay in next year's supply NOW. Ideally, the next two year's supply.

Ken

 

[argus66]

burn the best wood u can find, burn hot when ever possible, and clen it 2 times a yr. if u are still scared burn biobricks or some kind of compressed sawdust logs these produce no cresote at all but they may be hard to find in your area but mayby worth looking into.

 

[Backwoods Savage]

Methinks you worry too much about creosote in the elbows. It is not so much indoors where you will have creosote (if your wood is seasoned) but will be out there in the cold and especially at the top of the chimney. Also, you will find that 99% of the time when there has been a fire it is because the people did not season their wood properly. With good seasoned wood you will get very little creosote. (btw, we used to clean our chimney at least 4 times per year. With our new stove we have yet to clean it and wood is our only source of heat. Dry wood and new stove makes a big difference.)

I agree with Todd on the 45 degree vs. 90 degree elbows. Also, on the horizontal, it needs to have a minimum of 1/4" raise per foot of horizontal, but you aren't going very far horizontal so probably is not a big deal.

The chimney does look short compared to the peak of the roof but is difficult to tell with pictures. A rule of thumb for chimney height is to add 2 feet to the recommended height for every elbow. 45 degree elbows will help cut that back some though. Just be sure the chimney is higher than the peak of the roof.

You should have all of next winter's wood cut, split and stacked now so it has all spring and summer to season. Leave the wood pile uncovered during the heat of the summer but cover only the top next fall when the fall rains, or snows hit you.

Good luck to you.

 

[begreen]

The primary cause of creosote accumulation is poor wood. Make sure the wood, regardless of species is split, well seasoned and dry. The second cause is too cool exhaust gases. Single wall pipe will cool down the flue gases. If creosote does become an issue, consider switching to Metalbestos DS double-wall for the interior pipe. Also burn hot enough to keep creosote from forming. Burn at least one hot fire a day and don't damper down too quickly. Avoid smoldering fires. I suspect in AK this should not be a problem.

Note that there are two 90 degree turns and a 45 in the smoke path. (90+45 interior & 90 at the tee outside.) I suspect this isn't helping draft. If the stove is not working well and smoke spillage when opening the stove door is an issue, then adding a length to the stack and double-wall on the interior will help. Regardless, I would put a brace on the exterior stack, especially with the snows in AK.

Note the short horizontal connector going to the class A pipe. Make sure that it is pitched upward towards the exit at least 1/4" per foot. I would also rotate the seam to the top of the run. That will hide it and will be one less place for creosote to drip out of if this becomes an issue.

 

[swestall]

Make sure you burn the stove HOT once a day and the creosote will always be ash..
It looks pretty nice to me. If you have any drafting problem, smoke will come out the door, then add a section and supports to the top of the stack.

 

[amkazen]

If you are still concerned about your install, then redo the pipe installation this summer and go straight up. When you come to a stud/joist/truss blocking the path, cut it back to the required clearances and then "box" it by putting cross members from the cut stud/joist/truss to the stud/joist/truss on either side. It has been explained to me by numerous builders and framing inspectors that by "tying" the cut stud/joist/truss to the stud/joist/truss on either side you are very efectively spreading/transferring the load the cut-out section would carry. Consult a building inspector if your are unsure of how to do this. Once done, you will not have to worry about the angles.