Wood stove operation.

[Fumbles]

Hello all. I am new to this forum but not to wood burning. Spent a lot of time here the last month researching a replacement stove. So thanks to you all for sharing your experience and knowledge.
A little history, many years ago I spent a year cleaning out a wooded lot selling the wood. Got me interested in wood stoves. When we bought a house, first thing we did was a new roof and a chimney. Got a small decorative stove that barely put out heat. The next year was a Dutch West with cat that served us well for 18 years. The roof of the fire box came apart so the cat no longer worked. Replaced it with a Quadrafire 3100. Nice stove but short heat cycles and 12 inch logs. The following year we put in a Jøtul Oslo 400. Great stove, very well built. But six arm loads of wood a day to keep it hot. Last week, thanks to this forum, we installed a Blaze King Ashford 30. Only been 5 days but so far three arm loads of wood a day. I have to agree that it uses a third less wood. And the burn time is about 9 hours, just set it and go to work. Still hot when I get home.
So a few things I have learned. EPA does not care about your needs. A large fire box does not equate to a longer, hotter burning fire. Those tubes that burn smoke do so inside the fire box and do not produce anymore heat than a normal controlled fire will. And a cat does not have to glow red to be working.
I would have bought another Dutch West but the dealer said it won’t last with a six month long fire in it. The iron used is not a very good cast anymore. Still, if it was only say 800 dollars a would have. But not for 3000 there asking. I think a cat stove rocks. So I traded the Oslo in for a Blaze King. Been working on engines my whole life and have seen the effects and failures of cleaner burning. I have also seen the heat produced from catalyst. I also used the cat stove to melt candles from six feet away, don’t try that at home, so it makes perfect sense to me. So far I am very happy with this stove and thanks again for all that have posted on this forum. Fumbles

 

[bholler]

Hello all. I am new to this forum but not to wood burning. Spent a lot of time here the last month researching a replacement stove. So thanks to you all for sharing your experience and knowledge.
A little history, many years ago I spent a year cleaning out a wooded lot selling the wood. Got me interested in wood stoves. When we bought a house, first thing we did was a new roof and a chimney. Got a small decorative stove that barely put out heat. The next year was a Dutch West with cat that served us well for 18 years. The roof of the fire box came apart so the cat no longer worked. Replaced it with a Quadrafire 3100. Nice stove but short heat cycles and 12 inch logs. The following year we put in a Jøtul Oslo 400. Great stove, very well built. But six arm loads of wood a day to keep it hot. Last week, thanks to this forum, we installed a Blaze King Ashford 30. Only been 5 days but so far three arm loads of wood a day. I have to agree that it uses a third less wood. And the burn time is about 9 hours, just set it and go to work. Still hot when I get home.
So a few things I have learned. EPA does not care about your needs. A large fire box does not equate to a longer, hotter burning fire. Those tubes that burn smoke do so inside the fire box and do not produce anymore heat than a normal controlled fire will. And a cat does not have to glow red to be working.
I would have bought another Dutch West but the dealer said it won’t last with a six month long fire in it. The iron used is not a very good cast anymore. Still, if it was only say 800 dollars a would have. But not for 3000 there asking. I think a cat stove rocks. So I traded the Oslo in for a Blaze King. Been working on engines my whole life and have seen the effects and failures of cleaner burning. I have also seen the heat produced from catalyst. I also used the cat stove to melt candles from six feet away, don’t try that at home, so it makes perfect sense to me. So far I am very happy with this stove and thanks again for all that have posted on this forum. Fumbles

I am glad you are happy with the switch. And you are right the EPA does not care about your needs when it comes to heat output. They only care about your need for clean air. But they don't design stoves hey just set emission standards. Tube stoves when sized installed and run properly can work very well. What draft did you have with the jotul? What pipe temps were you running at?

 

[Fumbles]

I have never checked the draft. But a straight 15 foot has plenty. Of all the stoves installed on the same they all react as they should. A smoldering fire will come to life with more air but not violently when door is opened. With Jøtul stove top at 350 flu is just under 200. BK runs a little higher but stove top is 475-500. I can’t make the chimney any shorter. And taller would most likely make it stronger. Almost put a damper in but fire is and always has been easy to control. It did work perfectly for years with the Dutch West.

 

[bholler]

I have never checked the draft. But a straight 15 foot has plenty. Of all the stoves installed on the same they all react as they should. A smoldering fire will come to life with more air but not violently when door is opened. With Jøtul stove top at 350 flu is just under 200. BK runs a little higher but stove top is 475-500. I can’t make the chimney any shorter. And taller would most likely make it stronger. Almost put a damper in but fire is and always has been easy to control. It did work perfectly for years with the Dutch West.

15 feet straight off the top should be about right for most modern stoves. I just noticed you had the 400 not the 500 so yeah a small firebox like that is often over worked

 

[begreen]

The Jotul F400 Castine has about a 1.7 cu ft firebox, much smaller than the Ashford 30 at almost 3 cu ft.

Those tubes that burn smoke do so inside the fire box and do not produce anymore heat than a normal controlled fire will.

If draft is sufficient then they definitely produce a lot more heat. When secondary combustion kicks in it is like putting the firebox and stove into overdrive. 15 ft is marginal for the F400. It does better with a bit more flue. A 350º stove top on an F400 is barely idling. I rarely saw that temp except as the stove was warming up. It normally cruises in the 500-650 range.

 

[Ludlow]

So a few things I have learned. EPA does not care about your needs.

Comment of the year! Remember to spend your vote wisely. We see ever stricter emission standards enacted and hear of impending doom from pollution. All the while our life expectancy keeps growing and growing. I think we should relax the standards not tighten them.

 

[begreen]

EPA stoves have made a huge improvement in burning cleaner with less emissions and using less wood. I have no desire to go back any more than I ever want to be sitting behind a car without pollution controls. Life expectancies grow when the body is exposed to less toxins, including what we breathe.

 

[Ludlow]

EPA stoves have made a huge improvement in burning cleaner with less emissions and using less wood. I have no desire to go back any more than I ever want to be sitting behind a car without pollution controls. Life expectancies grow when the body is exposed to less toxins, including what we breathe.

True. But we are in a good place right now and ever tightening standards are not needed.

 

[begreen]

I hear ya, our T6 continues to run great, but with more people on the planet, more people burning wood as an alternative, the air still gets bad. Personally I'd like to see a lot less open fireplace burning, but that is a tougher nut to crack. When there are a lot of areas dealing with air stagnation, something has to improve. There will be mistakes and some bad designs along the way, but the best will be a win for all of us. It would also help if there were stronger wood selling requirements to ensure that more seasoned wood is available.

 

[bholler]

Comment of the year! Remember to spend your vote wisely. We see ever stricter emission standards enacted and hear of impending doom from pollution. All the while our life expectancy keeps growing and growing. I think we should relax the standards not tighten them.

It is not their job to care about anything but the environment. In the process they have made wood stove manufacturers produce far better stoves than they would have otherwise. There are already a decent number of good stoves on the market that meet the new standards. And there will be more. Yes I am sure there will be problems but I am sure it will be good in the long run.

 

[Ludlow]

Ever stricter standards are not needed in the majority of the country. If stagnation is a problem where you live then special stoves should be required there and not mandated for the rest.

 

[bholler]

Ever stricter standards are not needed in the majority of the country. If stagnation is a problem where you live then special stoves should be required there and not mandated for the rest.

Why should we not continue to move forward and improve upon what we have?

 

[Ludlow]

What's wrong with what we have?

 

[Fumbles]

Old research I did, that has been removed from history, is the original purpose of the agency. To be reactive to environmental disaster. To have in place the means to deal with the aftermath of oil spills or industrial meltdowns to protect the environment. Today it is a proactive agency. Nothing wrong with that and a lot of good has come from it. But they no longer have the reactive structure other than levying fines on those that don’t clean up there own mess in short order. EPA has the biggest building in Washington.

By the way, I did get the Jøtul over 500 and the burners do work but it used a lot of fuel to keep it there. At a lower operating temp which kept the living space comfortable, it was easier to maintain. With the DW I could maintain 80 degrees in the main room for almost seven hours doing nothing to the stove. Not the case with Quadrafire or Jøtul. Nothing wrong with either stove really, just didn’t want to add wood every couple hours. So far BK comes close but it has only been five days. I need to learn a bit more and, the wood makes a huge difference. I will try some oak when it gets into the teens. Right now I use smaller splits of cherry and black walnut. I used to put two month old splits, still unseasoned, in the DW and it burned slower and just as hot. But I did “ cook” the cat and flue every couple weeks.

 

[Woody Stover]

What's wrong with what we have?

We end up with a mostly destroyed ecosystem, and much human life will be destroyed along with it. That's just what I think. I don't expect everyone to agree, nor do I care to discuss it. But you did ask the question so I gave my answer.

 

[Ludlow]

We end up with a mostly destroyed ecosystem, and much human life will be destroyed along with it. That's just what I think. I don't expect everyone to agree, nor do I care to discuss it. But you did ask the question so I gave my answer.

Fair enough. But you are being misled by agenda driven activism IMO. There is no reason besides incremental elimination for the ever stringent standards (beyond where we are now) mandated upon wood burning stoves.

State of the Planet: Better Than Ever

Think about this: There is no time in the history of mankind that would be a better time to be alive than today. Although most people resist this message, and perhaps it is natural to have a yearning for the simpler times of yesteryear, nearly every objective measure of the state of the planet...

www.heritage.org

 

[Woody Stover]

Fair enough. But you are being misled by agenda driven activism IMO.

"Stephen Moore is the Distinguished Visiting Fellow for Project for Economic Growth at The Heritage Foundation. "
Sounds to me like he might be a guy with an agenda..

 

[bholler]

What's wrong with what we have?

Nothing is wrong with most of our current stoves. But there was nothing wrong with the model t either. Do you want to drive one today?

 

[Grizzerbear]

Im all for the advancement of stoves to reduce emissions......as well as solar, wind, water energy.....anything to clean up our planet. My one grief is make it affordable for everyone in the country so these advancemets can be put to use.

 

[bholler]

Im all for the advancement of stoves to reduce emissions......as well as solar, wind, water energy.....anything to clean up our planet. My one grief is make it affordable for everyone in the country so these advancemets can be put to use.

I agree completely about making it affordable. But really the prices have come down allot on many of those things. And the manufacturers need to be able to make them economically viable. If they can't it just won't work.

 

[tadmaz]

Just in case you are actually carrying firewood in your arms, I recommend getting something like this:

Amazon product ASIN B0001ZI53S

 

[Ludlow]

Nothing is wrong with most of our current stoves. But there was nothing wrong with the model t either. Do you want to drive one today?

I would love that actually! I bet they didnt have any of the electrical problems that plague my computerized Silverado, although my truck comes complete with roof leaks so it feels like a model T when it rains. Mandates just push experiments on to the consumer, who pays for the privilege of being a beta tester. What will you do when only certified wood from a specific supplier will be legal to burn in your stove?

 

[bholler]

I would love that actually! I bet they didnt have any of the electrical problems that plague my computerized Silverado, although my truck comes complete with roof leaks so it feels like a model T when it rains. Mandates just push experiments on to the consumer, who pays for the privilege of being a beta tester. What will you do when only certified wood from a specific supplier will be legal to burn in your stove?

So why aren't you driving one? Why aren't you using a POS old smokedragon of a stove?

 

[ABMax24]

The fact is the regulatory bodies only come up with minimum standards for manufacturers to follow. Manufacturers are permitted to come up with any technology or design to meet those requirements. Any issues with operation or reliability are solely the responsibility of the manufacturer.

 

[Ludlow]

So why aren't you driving one? Why aren't you using a POS old smokedragon of a stove?

Funny. The government didnt mandate GM to build a Silverado. The consumers desire to go faster with more comfort is why cars were improved.