Wood stove woes - wood moisture

[braley]

This is my second season with a wood stove. I have one of the newer EPA stoves made by Pacific Energy. I believe it was installed in 2004. Last winter I did not have many issues, but this season has been a real headache. First I got 3 cords delivered by the same guy as last year. Mostly ash. About 1 cord was bone dry and burned well, about 1 cord soaked to the touch, and 1 cord about in between. Only the driest stuff (which I've used up by now) burned well - the rest takes a long time to get hot and sizzles/drips out the ends. Well, I called this guy up and he told me I was being "unrealistic" about moisture content. He offered me $25 off.

I still needed another cord, so I found someone else. This guy assured me that the moisture was below 20%. He dropped it off yesterday, a big load of locust. However, I'm having an even worse experience with this wood. Even after placing the wood on top of a big bed of coals raked to the front of the stove, I can't get the temperature (measured on stovepipe) over 200 degrees. It makes a lot of popping sounds but burns very slowly with almost no flame. Meanwhile there is a ton of smoke coming out of the chimney. This is with the air control all the way open. I've had it fully open for 2 hours now.

So I contacted guy #2 and he assured me that neither he nor any of his customers is having any trouble with this wood. I told him I had an EPA stove and he had no idea what that meant. He says he has an "old cast iron stove".

Am I getting screwed here? I don't have enough experience to know what the issue might be. Meanwhile the coldest days of winter have hit. This is all very frustrating. Please help!

 

[bholler]

This is my second season with a wood stove. I have one of the newer EPA stoves made by Pacific Energy. I believe it was installed in 2004. Last winter I did not have many issues, but this season has been a real headache. First I got 3 cords delivered by the same guy as last year. Mostly ash. About 1 cord was bone dry and burned well, about 1 cord soaked to the touch, and 1 cord about in between. Only the driest stuff (which I've used up by now) burned well - the rest takes a long time to get hot and sizzles/drips out the ends. Well, I called this guy up and he told me I was being "unrealistic" about moisture content. He offered me $25 off.

I still needed another cord, so I found someone else. This guy assured me that the moisture was below 20%. He dropped it off yesterday, a big load of locust. However, I'm having an even worse experience with this wood. Even after placing the wood on top of a big bed of coals raked to the front of the stove, I can't get the temperature (measured on stovepipe) over 200 degrees. It makes a lot of popping sounds but burns very slowly with almost no flame. Meanwhile there is a ton of smoke coming out of the chimney. This is with the air control all the way open. I've had it fully open for 2 hours now.

So I contacted guy #2 and he assured me that neither he nor any of his customers is having any trouble with this wood. I told him I had an EPA stove and he had no idea what that meant. He says he has an "old cast iron stove".

Am I getting screwed here? I don't have enough experience to know what the issue might be. Meanwhile the coldest days of winter have hit. This is all very frustrating. Please help!

Get a moisture meter and test it. Very few guys sell dry wood and if they don't it is typically costs twice what others sell for. But if the second guy said it was under 20% yes he probably lied.

 

[braley]

Get a moisture meter and test it. Very few guys sell dry wood and if they don't it is typically costs twice what others sell for. But if the second guy said it was under 20% yes he probably lied.

hmm...he's a nice guy and I have no reason to think he'd be lying to me. I don't doubt that this stuff works in his stove. But it's definitely not working in mine.

I do have a moisture meter actually. When I let a piece of wood come up to room temp, split it, and check against the freshly split side, I'm getting around 30% on average.


Edit: He just texted me to say that he tested the moisture outdoors without splitting the wood. Could that be the reason for the discrepancy here? I'm thinking of asking him to come take this stuff back...

 

[bholler]

hmm...he's a nice guy and I have no reason to think he'd be lying to me. I don't doubt that this stuff works in his stove. But it's definitely not working in mine.

I do have a moisture meter actually. When I let a piece of wood come up to room temp, split it, and check against the freshly split side, I'm getting around 30% on average.
View attachment 237957

Edit: He just texted me to say that he tested the moisture outdoors without splitting the wood. Could that be the reason for the discrepancy here? I'm thinking of asking him to come take this stuff back...

Nice guy or not he told you it was under 20% and it is at about 30%. That means he liked to you

 

[braley]

Can you confirm that the correct way to test wood is to do it at room temperature against a freshly split part? I need some kind of evidence on my side if I'm going to ask him to take it back. Otherwise I think he'll just say "this wood works for me and everyone else, I tested it at under 20%, sorry but this is your problem".

 

[jetsam]

It's borderline criminal to burn wet locust. Get it covered and it will be amazing in a couple years. For now, you may be stuck with compressed wood logs from a store.

Start cutting, splitting, and stacking some pine now. Keep it covered and it will be ready next year, before the locust is.

 

[MagdalenaP]

There's no someone selling wood doesn't know how to check properly for moisture content.

Are you bringing wood straight from outdoors to the stove? I've found having some wood near the stove for a few days helps a bit.

 

[braley]

Aha!

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2017-02/documents/moisture_meter_v1_01-04-2017final.pdf

"Split the firewood, then shortly after, stick the prongs of the moisture meter into the newly split side of the wood. If possible, test the wood when the outside temperature is 50-90F. Lower wood temperatures result in lower indicated moisture content. See correction table..."

 

[braley]

Are you bringing wood straight from outdoors to the stove?

I keep about 2 days' supply indoors next to the stove.

*sigh* If you want something done right...

 

[Chas0218]

I keep about 2 days' supply indoors next to the stove.

*sigh* If you want something done right...

I live in upstate NY where are you located? I have firewood in Newark and Beaver Dams (Watkins) I have some extra wood if you are close enough. It is all Red Maple and Ash. The Red maple is reading 20-22% and the Ash 20% both sizzle on the bark side a bit probably just from the recent weather but are dryer than what you're trying to burn.

I have stacked Cherry that was 21" long and 5" across close to the stove and removed about 7% M.C. in 8 hours. This wasn't closer than the recommended distance to combustibles, it isn't ideal but does work. Helps if you have a fan blowing on the wood.

 

[Kevin Weis]

That locust still looks way green to me. Remember locust has a natural preservative in it (whatever that is) which is why it was (and still is) used for fence posts and other ground contact applications. When its green those natural chemical in it are going to boil out of it making it very nasty. You can always tell when anyone is burning locust that's not dried sufficiently, very aciderous odor to the smoke and very unpleasant.

 

[braley]

I live in upstate NY where are you located? I have firewood in Newark and Beaver Dams (Watkins) I have some extra wood if you are close enough. It is all Red Maple and Ash. The Red maple is reading 20-22% and the Ash 20% both sizzle on the bark side a bit probably just from the recent weather but are dryer than what you're trying to burn.

I have stacked Cherry that was 21" long and 5" across close to the stove and removed about 7% M.C. in 8 hours. This wasn't closer than the recommended distance to combustibles, it isn't ideal but does work. Helps if you have a fan blowing on the wood.

Ah, I'm actually east of Albany, near the MA border. I appreciate the offer though!

My current plan is to call this guy and ask him to consider taking his wood back and giving me my money back. And then get my fourth cord from the original guy. His wood was wet, sure, but not consistently, and I'm at least able to heat my house with it.

As for stacking it near the stove - that's what I did with the first guy's wood (the ash). It works ok if it's close to being dry enough. I feel like it won't help much with this locust, what with it being such a dense wood and still green (as Kevin pointed out). When he dropped it off I was struck by the bright yellow color.

 

[Chas0218]

Ah, I'm actually east of Albany, near the MA border. I appreciate the offer though!

My current plan is to call this guy and ask him to consider taking his wood back and giving me my money back. And then get my fourth cord from the original guy. His wood was wet, sure, but not consistently, and I'm at least able to heat my house with it.

As for stacking it near the stove - that's what I did with the first guy's wood (the ash). It works ok if it's close to being dry enough. I feel like it won't help much with this locust, what with it being such a dense wood and still green (as Kevin pointed out). When he dropped it off I was struck by the bright yellow color.

I figured I would at least offer wasn't too sure where you were located. You're right tho the locust won't, nothing will help it other than stacking it for next year or the year after.

 

[jetsam]

That locust still looks way green to me. Remember locust has a natural preservative in it (whatever that is) which is why it was (and still is) used for fence posts and other ground contact applications. When its green those natural chemical in it are going to boil out of it making it very nasty. You can always tell when anyone is burning locust that's not dried sufficiently, very aciderous odor to the smoke and very unpleasant.

Last year I found a pile of locust sitting in the woods behind the house- I guess at some point a tiny (~8") locust had fallen into the cleared area, and someone bucked it and threw it back in the woods. It sat there for a minimum of 3 years- who knows how much more- until I found it.

That stuff was in near-pristine shape. Even the stuff at the soggy bottom of the pile had only a tiny bit of punk at the very outside.

I have it tarped and drying along with a 2-year-old pile of maple now, we'll see how the stove likes it next year. It was small enough that I wouldn't have even grabbed it except that it was locust!

 

[braley]

I'm trying to make sense of his claim that this wood works fine for him. I honestly doubt he is deliberately lying. My impression is that he delivers a lot of firewood in this area.

Are EPA-certified stoves just more picky about moisture?

 

[begreen]

Can you confirm that the correct way to test wood is to do it at room temperature against a freshly split part? I need some kind of evidence on my side if I'm going to ask him to take it back. Otherwise I think he'll just say "this wood works for me and everyone else, I tested it at under 20%, sorry but this is your problem".

You are testing it correctly and he is not. Wood dries from the outside in. It can read 10% lower or more on the outside surface and ends and still be wet in the core. Try it on some green wood. This is not rocket science. Testing at room temp is less important than testing on the freshly exposed face of wood after resplitting.

Are EPA-certified stoves just more picky about moisture?

Yes, an old smoke dragon will smolder and doesn't need high firebox temps to burn cleanly.

 

[begreen]

Your wood is about one third water currently. It will never get to 0%. In our shed the wood stabilizes around 15% due to ambient winter moisture. The doug fir we are currently burning is in the 17-18% range.

Your EPA stove's firebox needs to get above 1100º at the top in order to promote good secondary combustion. The volatiles are reburned there.

If you are buying more wood now, buy enough for next year too and stack it off the ground, top covered.

 

[TWilk117]

Bright yellow? Sounds like mulberry.

 

[jetsam]

I'm trying to make sense of his claim that this wood works fine for him. I honestly doubt he is deliberately lying. My impression is that he delivers a lot of firewood in this area.

Are EPA-certified stoves just more picky about moisture?

You hear that a lot, but honestly it depends more on the operator than the stove.

I've run a lot of terrible, terrible wood through my BK.

But yes, new stoves definitely will not perform the same. You need to adjust your burning (and sweeping) practices a lot with bad wood.

The only reason old stoves are "better" at burning wet wood is that you don't have a secondary burn to begin with, so its absence won't be noticed. It's a bit like saying that your lawn tractor shifts better than your car because it doesn't have a transmission.

That doesn't stop people from saying it, though!

 

[TWilk117]

Mulberry bark is very similar to locust. This guy may not know what he’s talking about or he’s trying to pull one over on you.

 

[jetsam]

Yes, an old smoke dragon will smolder and doesn't need high firebox temps to burn cleanly.

Ever swept the stack after smoldering a smoke dragon with wet wood? That is not just dirty burning, it's filthy burning. (I know you didn't mean for it to come out like that.)

 

[begreen]

Ever swept the stack after smoldering a smoke dragon with wet wood? That is not just dirty burning, it's filthy burning. (I know you didn't mean for it to come out like that.)

Figured that was implied with a smoldering fire. Smoke = unburnt gases. If the gases are cool, they will condense and form creosote deposits.

 

[TWilk117]

Here is some mulberry I cut yesterday. Does it look like this?

 

[braley]

Thank you guys for all the replies! Nice to know I'm not crazy or doing something wrong.

Here's what it looks like. It looks yellower in reality than in this pic.

 

[TWilk117]

Hard to tell from the pic. Some of the yellower splits look like mulberry, others look like maybe locust.