Woodstock stove questions

[SGF13]

I started looking for a replacement stove years ago. I got some great advice in this thread https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/best-stove-for-me.52110/ . Yes it's been that long! I've been intermitently reading here and elsewhere ever since.

At one point I looked into the Englander NC30 due to price and reputation, then I realized it vented from the top and I need rear vent. After looking at the stoves recommended by folks responding to my thread and other reading, I started leaning towards the Woodstock stoves. The current sales and tax rebate got me back in gear and I wrote the company. I received a rapid informative reply recommending the Ideal Steel or Progress hybred stoves.

I am interested in the Ideal Steel model but I have some questions & concerns. I have had numerous fireplaces, inserts and wood stoves and although I am not a novice I am far from an expert and know nothing about hybred stoves. Although I try not to, I sometimes burn unseasoned wood, as I never seem get ahead with my current heavy wood consumer. Also, I have tons of things to keep me busy and I don't want a bunch of complexity and cleaning chores. I guess I'm not sure if this type stove will work for me but I have to decide before 3/15 to get the savings. Any input would be helpful.

 

[mol1jb]

No matter what stove you decide on you Must have seasoned wood. Any EPA stove will not tolerate wet wood and it will be a big headache to run.

 

[firefighterjake]

^^^ Good advice above.

 

[Berner]

Plus one for dry wood.

 

[weatherguy]

You'll probably burn less wood with one of those stoves than an older stove, though I'm not sure what your used to running. The PH tolerates not so seasoned wood well compared to some stoves. My BK wouldn't run well at all unless the wood was 20% or lower. I burned some 25% wood in my PH just to see what it would do and it burned just like my 20% wood, though I wouldn't recommend doing it on a consistent basis.

 

[pdxdave]

I started looking for a replacement stove years ago. I got some great advice in this thread https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/best-stove-for-me.52110/ . Yes it's been that long! I've been intermitently reading here and elsewhere ever since.

At one point I looked into the Englander NC30 due to price and reputation, then I realized it vented from the top and I need rear vent. After looking at the stoves recommended by folks responding to my thread and other reading, I started leaning towards the Woodstock stoves. The current sales and tax rebate got me back in gear and I wrote the company. I received a rapid informative reply recommending the Ideal Steel or Progress hybred stoves.

I am interested in the Ideal Steel model but I have some questions & concerns. I have had numerous fireplaces, inserts and wood stoves and although I am not a novice I am far from an expert and know nothing about hybred stoves. Although I try not to, I sometimes burn unseasoned wood, as I never seem get ahead with my current heavy wood consumer. Also, I have tons of things to keep me busy and I don't want a bunch of complexity and cleaning chores. I guess I'm not sure if this type stove will work for me but I have to decide before 3/15 to get the savings. Any input would be helpful.

Definitely a cat stove should help give you a chance to get ahead. I've never burned green wood, but I've put some marginal stuff in there and it does alright after it gets hot. Regardless, if that's your plan start stacking wood right now !

 

[osagebow]

Get as much as you can cut, split, stacked, and covered ASAP. See if you can get some soft maple or other softer woods put up that will dry quicker, it may help to mix until you get ahead. Plenty of threads you have probably seen about the "3 year plan", sorry if you know this already.

I burn significantly less than I did before, but the house is a LOT warmer. Previous woodstove was smaller, kinda on the cheapo side. Our pellet stove was great but also not quite up to the task.

My IS did struggle with oak that was about 16 months cut, split,and stacked that my boys brought in by mistake. I had to leave it 3/4 open to burn that load.
That said, I do recommend the IS.
Heating 1200 sqft. split level from basement, waking up to plenty of coals and a 70-72 degree main floor in this near record cold snap. I can also throttle it down so we don't get cooked, that might be a concern for y'all down there in NC.
Good luck, fire away if you wanna know more. Plenty of us IS fanboys on here.

 

[Rearscreen]

Run don't snowshoe to Woodstock! (Some on this forum say take what I say with a grain of salt) that stated: I rarely have/had problems with unseasoned wood in both my old Mansfield and my new PH. 2 seasons ago I had a large live maple taken down and burned it a few months after. Granted the summer was dry (less water content), but no problems. No clogged cat. That said certain species certainly would be a challenge to burn unless properly seasoned. Oak comes to mind.

 

[SGF13]

I am in the warmer, wetter, flatter coastal area of NC which is Eastern NC. The points about wet wood are well taken but I'd be lying if I didn't admit to burning some wood that was beyond questionable. I built a firewood shed last winter. Basically it is posts with a tin roof and a board backstop on one side. We have had tons of wet weather in the last few years and the ground is often muddy in the shed. We stack the firewood on wooden pallets in what I believe is called the end-pillar method. We don't have the greatest wood options here. Local choices are limited as we have mostly pines, which I don't burn. I mostly get sweetgum and a species of oak I am not sure of the specific type of oak. Sometimes My son who lives in the state's center can sometimes hook me up with better hardwoods, but that is seven hrs. round trip. It has to be planned as a special trip negates a lot of the wood burning value due to fuel cost.

I got a moisture meter Christmas 2014 and I have used it to try and keep with the driest stuff, but I admit you all are right about using dry wood, as well as in my being behind with having a stock pile. I know wet wood will happen some times which is why I am interested in how this stove will handle it. I mentioned it in the old thread but my current stove is a Gatling. Basically it is a steel box with a few missing firebricks and it never had seals of any kind. I add two or three pieces of wood to my stove an hour. When I compare that to what I read here about newer stoves wood use, I'm hoping to reduce wood consumption by half with the IS stove. Thanks for the great input.

 

[edyit]

. Local choices are limited as we have mostly pines, which I don't burn. I mostly get sweetgum and a species of oak I am not sure of the specific type of oak.

nothing wrong with burning pine or any other soft woods as long as they are seasoned and dry, and pine dries faster than a lot of hardwoods.

 

[JA600L]

I am in the warmer, wetter, flatter coastal area of NC which is Eastern NC. The points about wet wood are well taken but I'd be lying if I didn't admit to burning some wood that was beyond questionable. I built a firewood shed last winter. Basically it is posts with a tin roof and a board backstop on one side. We have had tons of wet weather in the last few years and the ground is often muddy in the shed. We stack the firewood on wooden pallets in what I believe is called the end-pillar method. We don't have the greatest wood options here. Local choices are limited as we have mostly pines, which I don't burn. I mostly get sweetgum and a species of oak I am not sure of the specific type of oak. Sometimes My son who lives in the state's center can sometimes hook me up with better hardwoods, but that is seven hrs. round trip. It has to be planned as a special trip negates a lot of the wood burning value due to fuel cost.

I got a moisture meter Christmas 2014 and I have used it to try and keep with the driest stuff, but I admit you all are right about using dry wood, as well as in my being behind with having a stock pile. I know wet wood will happen some times which is why I am interested in how this stove will handle it. I mentioned it in the old thread but my current stove is a Gatling. Basically it is a steel box with a few missing firebricks and it never had seals of any kind. I add two or three pieces of wood to my stove an hour. When I compare that to what I read here about newer stoves wood use, I'm hoping to reduce wood consumption by half with the IS stove. Thanks for the great input.

Take the plunge. The habit you will want to change is loading a few pieces at a time. These stoves run better filled and with the door left shut. Let it burn its full cycle before adding more wood. Depending on your insulation and heat needs that could be 12-24 hours. Maybe less in the real cold snaps.

As far as questionable wood, can you atleast bring it into the stove room a day before burning it? You can do a lot of drying in one day doing that. The hybrid should in theory do better with questionable wood as it brings two technologies to the table to try and burn clean.

 

[LocustBurner]

Go ahead and pull the trigger on an Ideal Steel; you will not be disappointed!

 

[toddnic]

I highly recommend Woodstock Soapstone Company woodstoves We have been so pleased with our Progress Hybrid. You definitely will need to make sure you are burning a low moisture content wood, but that should be standard protocol for any woodstove. You will burn a lot less wood using the hybrid system. Hopefully that will help you get ahead on your wood C/S/S....

 

[Babaganoosh]

I find that the IS works very well with softwoods. That's what's great about the cat. You can throttle down the air very low and let the pine or soft maple (I've got a bunch of soft maple) give off btus slowly instead of roaring thru it. However if you need the heat crank the air up some and fire the cat and the secondaries.

Dry wood. Dry wood, dry wood.

 

[OhioBurner©]

I started looking for a replacement stove years ago. I got some great advice in this thread https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/best-stove-for-me.52110/ . Yes it's been that long! I've been intermitently reading here and elsewhere ever since.

First thing I notice from the pic in your other thread is your thimble appears very low. You mention wanting a horizontal vent due to hearth configuration. Are you not planning on modifying your hearth at all? Could you provide measurements of the thimble height? I don't know if you could get ANY modern wood stove to fit in there, but a measurement is required, or willingness to do some modifications.

Also a very important detail, how large is your house? Though with the Ideal Steel it can handle a wide range since it can idle very low but throw out some serious heat when needed.

There is no worry about extra work involved with a hybrid, that amounts to letting the stove cool off a bit every few weeks, pop out the catalytic converter (no tools, just need stove gloves if its still warm/hot) and vacuum it with an ash vac or similar. Cleaning out ashes with the Ideal is pretty easy, nicer than any other stove I've had (if you get the ash pan option). There will be a slight learning curve operating the stove coming from your pre-epa stove, but not a big deal at all. And I wouldn't be afraid to try pine, especially for fall/spring wood. I have a cord of spruce I'm stacking right now for next year. It might not be as good as hardwood, but throttled way down low I'd bet you can still get many hours from a full load of softwood.

 

[SGF13]

First thing I notice from the pic in your other thread is your thimble appears very low. You mention wanting a horizontal vent due to hearth configuration. Are you not planning on modifying your hearth at all? Could you provide measurements of the thimble height? I don't know if you could get ANY modern wood stove to fit in there, but a measurement is required, or willingness to do some modifications.

Also a very important detail, how large is your house?

I don't plan to modify anything. For some reason unknown to me there is an actual brick chimney outside behind that brick hearth wall. It even has a cleanout door. We simply run the flex flue pipe from the stove up it. Maybe the builder considered a fireplace, who knows. I'm not sure why a modern stove wouldn't fit there but I'll take some photos and measurements and post them here.

The house size is pretty moot because of the location of the stove. It is abut 2700 sq. ft. and two stories but the stoves placement in the corner of a first floor corner room limits heat travel. It is still worth it though due to what I explained in a previous post.[/QUOTE]

 

[OhioBurner©]

A measurement (or at least better pic) would be helpful. I may be mistaken, just looking at your earlier pic the round object at the top left corner of the stove I assumed was the thimble. And that looks not even 2' tall, and well like I said very few if any good modern stoves would be able to vent that low, and Ideal Steel for sure wouldn't. Your current stove looks incredibly stubby!

 

[Woody Stover]

that looks not even 2' tall,

Apparently he's tapping into the chimney somehow with a flex liner. Regardless, he'll have to get through the wall higher up than what he's got now. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/best-stove-for-me.52110/

 

[OhioBurner©]

Regardless, he'll have to got through the wall higher up than what he's got now.

That is what I was talking about and concerned for, if indeed the liner passes through the hearth as low as it appears...

I don't plan to modify anything.

 

[SGF13]

Hopefully these pictures will help add some clarity to the layout. I'm not sure about modern stove requirements but the distance from the hearth's brick floor to the bottom of the flue pipe is 17.5 inches. If more measurements would make things clearer I can get them.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Yes thanks, that clears up a lot.
As far as the Ideal Steel Hybrid goes, the center of its flue connector at the minimum leg height is 24.5". Yours looks to be about 20.5" so not gonna happen.
I'll let others step in from here, I am not aware of any modern stove that can vent that low, if you don't plan on doing some major hearth modifications. You can't run a pipe downwards from the stove to the liner, it has to be level (actually a very slight rise). About the only thing I know might work is a pellet stove, but I am sure maybe there are some woodburners out there that would work.

Edited to add: I also just looked at the Progress Hybrid on their website and it states with the short legs and no ash pan the center of the flue outlet is 22.5" so closer but still not going to work unfortunately, and about same with Fireview and Keystone.

 

[begreen]

The best solution here may be to tap into the chimney higher up and plug the existing hole. Then a top vent is an option. If possible consider tapping into the chimney several feet higher up with a top exit flue to a 90 into the chimney or a pair of 45s with an offset.

 

[SGF13]

Well, this certainly isn't good news so I guess I am going to have to do some fairly quick decision making on how to proceed. I wanted to take advantage of the free options deal going right now until 3/15/16 but whether or not better offers will arrive in the warmer months is an unknown.

Pellet stoves and venting in a way that excludes the chimney are not options I'd consider. It seems to me that if I want a modern stove my only option is to do what begreen describes. I guess essentially if you look at my pictures I'd have to break out some brick above the current hole or create a completely new hole higher up.

I appreciate the input. I may email Woodstock to make sure there are no hidden issues. I would have never considered the low exit issue had you all not pointed it out.

 

[OhioBurner©]

Pellet stoves and venting in a way that excludes the chimney are not options I'd consider. It seems to me that if I want a modern stove my only option is to do what begreen describes. I guess essentially if you look at my pictures I'd have to break out some brick above the current hole or create a completely new hole higher up.

I appreciate the input. I may email Woodstock to make sure there are no hidden issues. I would have never considered the low exit issue had you all not pointed it out.

When I mentioned pellet stoves I was not excluding the chimney, they (or some of them) can utilize that. I was venting into a 6" liner with mine, though it is not ideal. Some even come with 6" vent connections, but the one I am thinking of may just be top vent using 6". Just throwing that out there.

This is a good example why I say never put a thimble through a masonry hearth to accommodate a horizontal exit stove, unless it is a really big one! You can always raise a stove up with additional bricks and what not under the legs, but can't usually make it lower. Putting the thimble up a few feet higher will accommodate pretty much any stove. If you'd re-consider doing some hearth modification then great.

It is a good deal going on right now, especially for local folks that don't need to ship. But they seem to always have a sale of some sort. When I got mine last year it was two or three hundred dollars more (I forget exactly without looking it up) but included free shipping (up to $250) and free custom artwork (which they are charging $170 for now) so for me last years deal was just slightly better.

 

[pdxdave]

Yes thanks, that clears up a lot.
As far as the Ideal Steel Hybrid goes, the center of its flue connector at the minimum leg height is 24.5". Yours looks to be about 20.5" so not gonna happen.
I'll let others step in from here, I am not aware of any modern stove that can vent that low, if you don't plan on doing some major hearth modifications. You can't run a pipe downwards from the stove to the liner, it has to be level (actually a very slight rise). About the only thing I know might work is a pellet stove, but I am sure maybe there are some woodburners out there that would work.

Edited to add: I also just looked at the Progress Hybrid on their website and it states with the short legs and no ash pan the center of the flue outlet is 22.5" so closer but still not going to work unfortunately, and about same with Fireview and Keystone.

I'm sure this idea is packed full of all sorts of wrong, but you COULD run the IS several inches lower, if you were to modify the leg height. This would have clearance implications, but likely not a concern on that brick.