Woodstock's experimental dual-fuel stove

[begreen]

The folks at Woodstock continue to innovate. This time they are working on a wood/coal stove for the Navajo nation. It's still in beta testing, but the results are promising. They have a nice accounting of the process in their blog.
http://blog.woodstove.com/2017/01/the-navajo-stove-rumors-are-true.html

 

[Lloyd the redneck]

I'll take one. That looks neat

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Will that be cost effective given the limited market for such a stove? But i assume they already ran the numbers and figured it is.

 

[Chas0218]

That's sweet, I wish I could burn coal in my stove and wood.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[begreen]

Will that be cost effective given the limited market for such a stove? But i assume they already ran the numbers and figured it is.

Cost effective is relative to the cost of operations. Woodstock likes to stay smaller and more personal and thus lower volume. That gives them some flexibility to experiment more. Besides, I think it's just more fun for them.

 

[Deryk]

In 10 years or so when retirement is closer I will be looking for a good wood/coal stove with closer clearances...options are a good thing

 

[Squirrely]

That's sweet, I wish I could burn coal in my stove and wood.

I can in mine... however, there isn't a lump of coal within 200 miles!

Greg

 

[moresnow]

Really nifty stove. Wonder if it will be available everywhere? Guessing so?

 

[Ashful]

Will that be cost effective given the limited market for such a stove? But i assume they already ran the numbers and figured it is.

The article was pretty clear, "the EPA asked us if we could try to design a dual fuel stove specifically to meet the needs of the Navajo American Indians." Your tax dollars at work?

Woodstock likes to stay smaller and more personal and thus lower volume. That gives them some flexibility to experiment more. Besides, I think it's just more fun for them.

Don't assume they're a bunch of fun-loving hippies, it is after all one of the most successful stove companies in the world. Follow the money.

 

[begreen]

Don't assume they're a bunch of fun-loving hippies, it is after all one of the most successful stove companies in the world. Follow the money.

?? Define success. They are privately held. How do you follow the money vs a company like Jotul that has worldwide sales?

 

[Ashful]

You can always track it on the public side of the exchange, the EPA. Here's an example, although this one not involving Woodstock:

(broken link removed to https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/epa-awards-small-business-research-grant-sustainable-cookstove-company-oregon)

Here's another, but older:

"A recent settlement agreement between EPA and several electric utilities will provide $3.2 million in funding for new, cleaner burning stoves and $1.5 million for weatherization for Navajo Nation homes near the Four Corners Power Plant over the next five years. U.S. EPA, the Navajo Nation EPA, and the Hearth Patio and BBQ Association Education Foundation will host stove installation training on the Navajo Nation later this year."

Did Woodstock manage to tap into that $3.2M, awarded out if this suit?

 

[begreen]

How does that define success? Woodstock is tiny next to Travis, Jotul, H&HT.

 

[Ashful]

begreen, you're latching onto one word in a prior post, while ignoring the primary point contained within. I was merely countering your response to Seasoned Oak's question about covering their development costs on a product with an assumed "very limited" market. You had supposed that they are doing it because they like to remain small, and have fun with such projects, both of which may be true. But I also think they're a pretty smart bunch of folks, who have grown a very successful business, and not just by doing fun and un-profitable things. They are covering their costs, one way or another, and that was the point of the post.

 

[begreen]

Yes, that is my point. For sure they are smart folks and most are having fun working there. Success has many different qualifiers besides following the money. I wish in this country that happiness would be the true measure of success, but unfortunately it rarely is, especially if shareholders are involved.

 

[HisTreeNut]

I can understand the need for a stove of that kind. Did a mission trip to a reservation in South Dakota a few years back putting in gardens and doing minor repair work.
The "government built housing" was a joke. 900 sq ft houses on a slab, 1/8" drywall with no insulation or storm windows. Propane heat only and next to impossible to keep warm in the winter and cool in the summer.
Awful situation and something like that will be a huge help to them.

 

[Squirrely]

The article was pretty clear, "the EPA asked us if we could try to design a dual fuel stove specifically to meet the needs of the Navajo American Indians." Your tax dollars at work?

I don't mind seeing tax dollars at work for R and D on practical stuff like that.

They're onto something here. Wow... those stoves look super robust and sturdy like they'd last a really long time. The built in utensel rack makes it a complete compact unit, and the laser cut plates are neato.



There's a regional market. People with Southwest style homes are going to love them, and no one else is making anything like it.

We stayed with friends at the Hopi reservation and they burned coal they collected that fell off the trucks.

Greg

 

[begreen]

Would think that a coal/wood stove would be popular in several areas that are coal rich. Wonder if they are just testing with bituminous or also with anthracite?

 

[Squirrely]

Would think that a coal/wood stove would be popular in several areas that are coal rich. Wonder if they are just testing with bituminous or also with anthracite?

It appears they are focusing on what's locally available.

(from the blog...)

On the Navajo Reservation, the residents burn wood and coal in their stoves – and not just any coal, but sub-bituminous coal. The coal is mined on the Navajo American Indian Reservation, and is used for the Navajo Generating Station near Page, Arizona, but is also used for residential heating on the reservation to achieve extended burn times at night. It is a low-density coal with high water content – and a very high-energy content.

Greg

 

[bfitz3]

The article was pretty clear, "the EPA asked us if we could try to design a dual fuel stove specifically to meet the needs of the Navajo American Indians." Your tax dollars at work?


Don't assume they're a bunch of fun-loving hippies, it is after all one of the most successful stove companies in the world. Follow the money.

Glass half empty?

 

[bholler]

I will be looking for a good wood/coal stove

There really is no such thing there are lots of good coal stoves that you can burn wood in but they really all burn wood pretty poorly wasting tons of heat. I am assuming this one will be better for its intended application but that is sub-bituminous coal. Nothing like the anthracite we get here in pa.

Wonder if they are just testing with bituminous or also with anthracite?

They would have to make some major changes to it in order to burn anthracite. I have never seen or burnt the sub bituminous stuff they are referring to but I know bituminous is very very different than anthracite. It is also way dirtier.

 

[Squirrely]

There really is no such thing there are lots of good coal stoves that you can burn wood in but they really all burn wood pretty poorly wasting tons of heat. I am assuming this one will be better for its intended application but that is sub-bituminous coal. Nothing like the anthracite we get here in pa.




They would have to make some major changes to it in order to burn anthracite. I have never seen or burnt the sub bituminous stuff they are referring to but I know bituminous is very very different than anthracite. It is also way dirtier.

I've seen it burn...
At the Hopi reservation it was freezing outside and we had this dinky old cast iron stove with a few chunks blazing away inside the uninsulated trailer where we slept on the floor. Man, does that stuff give off a ~LOT~ of heat for its tiny volume!

Greg

 

[bholler]

I've seen it burn...
At the Hopi reservation it was freezing outside and we had this dinky old cast iron stove with a few chunks blazing away inside the uninsulated trailer where we slept on the floor. Man, does that stuff give off a ~LOT~ of heat for its tiny volume!

Greg

I am sure it does it is still coal. But i am sure it is nowhere near as much energy as anthrecite.

 

[Texas123]

Cost effective is relative to the cost of operations. Woodstock likes to stay smaller and more personal and thus lower volume. That gives them some flexibility to experiment more. Besides, I think it's just more fun for them.

I have already emailed them on a future sale. Since this is a government grant enabling them to manufacture this specialized design. it will be available only for Indian Reservations. They might have a wood burning one in the future but not able to burn coal. Apparently you cannot use a catalytic converter in a coal stove.

 

[Squirrely]

I am assuming this one will be better for its intended application but that is sub-bituminous coal. Nothing like the anthracite we get here in pa.

There appears to be a lot of overlap...

 

[bholler]

There appears to be a lot of overlap...View attachment 198142

Yes per ton they are similar. But a ton of anthracite takes up allot less space than a ton of bituminous or sub bituminous. So your load of coal in you stove has allot more btus in it with anthracite than with the other two.