Woohoo! Finally picked up a fireplace insert!

BigJ273

Feeling the Heat
Feb 15, 2015
270
Maryland
They almost never have the required clearances which is why I always say people should always insulate their liners. Insulation negates those clearance requirements.
Well that makes me feel a little better. Mine is wrapped in insulation.
 

bholler

Chimney sweep
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
22,101
central pa
So what is doublewalled Class A flex pipe?
No such thing that I've ever seen/heard of...
Any liner meant for use with solid fuels is a class a liner. Class a is simply the rating required for chimneys servicing solid fuel appliances. Prefab chimneys have taken on that label and it kind of confused the issue
 

BigJ273

Feeling the Heat
Feb 15, 2015
270
Maryland
Idk what to tell you guys. If you google double walled chimney pipe, the internet says double walled = insulated, as there is an air gap. This air gap provides SOME insulation. It it as much insulation as a full wrap? Probably not. But I also have a chimney in the center of my house. Since it isn't exterior I wasn't sure I needed insulated anyway, so this is what I'll be using, along with a blockoff plate insulated w Rockwoll.

I had to buy 25' of rockwool insulation, so I could theoretically use some metal zip ties to strap some of that to the pipe as well, since I don't have much use for it other than the small amount I will use for the blockoff plate. Idk what else to do with this insulation, really. Is there any benefit to stuffing it behind the stove? Again, the chimney is sort of central to the house, so I'm assuming that insulation behind the stove would actually be bad, as it would prevent heat from radiating behind the chimney into the room behind it?
Pretty arrogant response if you ask me. Don’t forget, YOU came HERE asking for help. The people on this forum are experienced professionals, who do this daily for a living. Their advice is worth something. Sometimes, I feel like I’m asking ridiculous questions, but someone who’s knowledgeable always takes time out of their day to help. That’s what this is all about. I would do the same if someone asked me questions about my profession. We all want to be safe. Take it from someone who has had a fire, spend the extra $300 on insulation. Your insurance deductible is probable three times that much. Or....like you said....you could just trust Google. Good luck.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
84,180
South Puget Sound, WA
Idk what to tell you guys. If you google double walled chimney pipe, the internet says double walled = insulated, as there is an air gap. This air gap provides SOME insulation.
You are confusing terms. What you will be installing is a chimney liner, not chimney pipe. You searched for the wrong item. HT chimny pipe does have an insulation layer. But that does not go inside a chimney. It's for standalone application and it's the shiny chimney pipe you see poking out of a roof or up the side of a house.
Chimney liner is what is used inside a chimney. Again, I suggest you go to Rockford's site to learn more about the options. Chimney liner comes in single ply, rigid and flex and 2 ply flex and preinsulated flex and rigid. Even if you don't buy from them you can at least see the options and differences. You will most likely be buying single-ply flex liner.

Chimney Pipe:

Chimney Liner:
 
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brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
5,349
NE Ohio
And this is preinsulated chimney liner in a kit. Just for illustration, it lacks the appliance adapter.
That's what I used for the liner on my Drolet 1400i stove in the fireplace...I like it a lot, but I think it is maybe just a smidge less flexible than standard single ply liner. Almost had to use a 22.5* elbow coming off my stove...was able to get it then, but just barely.
 

ADDvanced

Member
Dec 1, 2016
41
Milwaukee
Pretty arrogant response if you ask me. Don’t forget, YOU came HERE asking for help. The people on this forum are experienced professionals, who do this daily for a living. Their advice is worth something. Sometimes, I feel like I’m asking ridiculous questions, but someone who’s knowledgeable always takes time out of their day to help. That’s what this is all about. I would do the same if someone asked me questions about my profession. We all want to be safe. Take it from someone who has had a fire, spend the extra $300 on insulation. Your insurance deductible is probable three times that much. Or....like you said....you could just trust Google. Good luck.
Yup. Asking for help. You're misinterpreting me. I'm not being arrogant, I just don't know what else to say. You guys told me to buy insulated, so I bougth a double wall pipe because the internet says double walled is insulated. So you're saying there is a form of drop in liner that is double walled but not insulated? Why does the internet say double walled is insulated?
 

ADDvanced

Member
Dec 1, 2016
41
Milwaukee
K idk what to do now. I need like 14' of pipe, and the shortest I see in any of htese kits is 25'. Does anyone sell 15' sections? It sucks to spent $600 when really I need like $300 of pipe. I will look around but I already bought the one from menards since it said double walled. I also DO need to try to ovalize it through my flue, so if a true insulated liner can't flex as much , maybe I should just order an insulation kit from Selkirk, and insulate the top 10" of it but leave the insulation off right near the flue?

Today I picked up a decent sheet of aluminum and the rock wool mineral insulation, along with some high temp silicone for the blockoff plate. I also picked up some stove paint, so I'll be painting the thing this week.
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
5,349
NE Ohio
Does anyone sell 15' sections?
Yes, most places do...did you look at any of those links that @begreen has posted...the one on the last page specifically had 15' stuff listed...
 

ADDvanced

Member
Dec 1, 2016
41
Milwaukee

Yeah, this is the link begreen posted, I'm just not seeing any 15' sections.

I did find this on ebay... would this work? It says it is Rockford Chimney supply, 15' of insulation w sleeve, clamps, tape, adhesive, etc:


Would this work with the Selkirk kit I already ordered?
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
5,349
NE Ohio
Would this work with the Selkirk kit I already ordered?
Sure...but if that is the doublewall (2 ply is a better description) liner, I would cancel or return it if possible...which should be simple enough with Menards, they are very easy to work with...do some research here, those 2 ply liners have issues...I should know, I bought one before I knew better...waste of money
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
84,180
South Puget Sound, WA

Yeah, this is the link begreen posted, I'm just not seeing any 15' sections.

I did find this on ebay... would this work? It says it is Rockford Chimney supply, 15' of insulation w sleeve, clamps, tape, adhesive, etc:


Would this work with the Selkirk kit I already ordered?
$199 on eBay, it's $189 on their website. Do yourself a favor and give them a call tomorrow. Even if you don't end up buying from them you will get a lot of questions answered more quickly. If you do order from them you will find that they provide good service.
 
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ADDvanced

Member
Dec 1, 2016
41
Milwaukee
Sure...but if that is the doublewall (2 ply is a better description) liner, I would cancel or return it if possible...which should be simple enough with Menards, they are very easy to work with...do some research here, those 2 ply liners have issues
So the company that made my insert literally sells double ply liners from their company website:


So... wouldn't that mean it's fine? Also... they don't sell any insulated liners whatsoever, as far as I can tell.
 

ADDvanced

Member
Dec 1, 2016
41
Milwaukee
Okay, I'll call them tomorrow. If you guys think I should cancel my double ply selkirk order, please let me know why... it sure seems like it's the same thing sold on the osburn website.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
84,180
South Puget Sound, WA
Double-ply liners don't have a good reputation. They tend to delaminate and fishmouth inside. That can ruin the installation. There are some pictures in old threads of failures.

For comparison, you could also call WoodlandDirect.com. They sell high-quality liners. 844.292.0145
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
5,349
NE Ohio
So the company that made my insert literally sells double ply liners from their company website:


So... wouldn't that mean it's fine? Also... they don't sell any insulated liners whatsoever, as far as I can tell.
There is tons of info on what's wrong with them already posted on this site.
But the Cliffs Notes version of the issue is that the inner ply coils don't lay back down flat after being coiled up to ship it...then that is a perfect place for creosote to build up...
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
84,180
South Puget Sound, WA
Here is an installation video that should be helpful.
 

ADDvanced

Member
Dec 1, 2016
41
Milwaukee
Thanks, I've watched a few of those, I think I get the idea, what I was so confused about is double ply/double wall vs not double wall vs insulated. That and double ply seems better than single, but apparently not.
 

brenndatomu

Minister of Fire
Aug 21, 2013
5,349
NE Ohio
That and double ply seems better than single, but apparently not.
If you want something better than standard single ply liner, they make HD liner...its single ply, just thicker metal (like 0.010" instead of 0.005 or 0.006") but not really necessary for most installs...it all has to meet the same minimum standard.
 
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ADDvanced

Member
Dec 1, 2016
41
Milwaukee
Alright, I have some updates; picked up a bunch of supplies from Menards... firewood hauler, high temp silicone, refractory mortar incase I crack anything making the liner fit, some sheet aluminum and rock wool for the block off plate, and some paint. Disassembled her and sanded the worn areas, and sprayed with 2 lighter coats of this stuff, and one medium coat.



Looks great! However, now I have to cure this thing by having small fires... so here is my question. Can I just ... uh... pre season this thing? Start a small fire in it while it sits in the driveway? Just curious! :)

QD1cosS.jpg
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
84,180
South Puget Sound, WA
Yes, but it will need some stove pipe to help it draw. Performance will likely be poor even with it due to weak draft so expect that the door may need to be cracked open slightly to maintain the fire.
 

ADDvanced

Member
Dec 1, 2016
41
Milwaukee
Well I'm folking pissed off.

Menards Product listing:

"Selkirk® 6'' ID x 25' Class A Double Wall Insert Flex Kit"

Product received is not double walled AT ALL. I already tore apart the damper this morning, so... folk it. So pissed off. Idk how such a large company can completely lie about something like this.
 

begreen

Mooderator
Staff member
Nov 18, 2005
84,180
South Puget Sound, WA
So marketing messed up. That is Selkirk Versa Liner. You should be glad it is not double-wall. Menards has a very good price on it. I wouldn't complain.
 

ADDvanced

Member
Dec 1, 2016
41
Milwaukee
You're right. It was a blessing in disguise! I cut out the damper plate but the damper... idk... surround was cast iron, and impossible to cut even with a fresh sawzall blade. So... I stomped on the end of the liner a bit, and got it to fit through.

Roof shot:


Used 2x4s to make a temporary ramp to scoot it up into place (not pictured), here she is:



First test burn with some smallish kindling and scraps last night:


Still need to finish fabricating the blockoff plate; I have it cut from aluminum but need to cut the hole for the liner in it. I might split it in two, or maybe just notch a U shape out of the back, then have a smaller panel seal that area behind the liner? I plan on jamming as much rockwool up there as I can, and using the blockoff plate to hold it up.

I'm sure I'll have a ton left over since I had to buy an entire roll; can I cut it up into small chunks and drop it down from above? Also, should insulate the top of the chimney cap? I was thinking if I insulated the top end, it would insulate the entire chimney cavity, and given that it's central to the house, it would keep the chimney fairly warm.

Thoughts?

Did larger burn today, got the paint to offgas a bit, it's been going since about noon, so about 8 hours now. Have not hooked up the blower yet, and I think I need to bend the hot air valve handle a bit more because I don't think I can slide it fully open.