Would something like this work?

[James0816]

ok..final question..need expert opionion.....

using the very rough scetch attached....would this idea work:

built into the firepit along one wall, have a channel leading to a seperate area to provide heat. not blazing heat...just warming heat. there would be a couple of "ports" if you will in the side. small area...about the size of one brick length. hopefully the drawing will give an idea of what i would like to accomplish. the idea is to get heat without the smoke to go to the warmer.

curious if this would work?

:smirk:

 

[Corey]

I don't know that you would pick up much heat down low like that. If you draw enough air to get heat, you would likely get smoke, too.

A better solution might be to have the fire enclosed in some sort of box, then divert a portion of the flue gasses (smoke and all, red arrows) under the chamber which you want to warm. The floor of the chamber would be thin material (like 1/8 or 3/16"" steel plate) which would warm up and radiate heat (yellow arrows), but not pass any smoke. A simple steel plate damper on this passage would regulate the amount of flue gas (and heat) which was sent to the warming chamber. You would still need a main flue capable of handling all the flue gasses, though...incase you had the warming chamber blocked 100%

Corey

 

[James0816]

hmmmm.....that wouldn't work for my application. the top has to be open for grilling.

 

[treeman08]

I would think if you did similar to your drawing but had your air intake in an area where you would not pick up smoke.
Then you could have the fire closer or on top of the channel. The heat generated in the channel would give you a draw.
Just a quick thought.

 

[James0816]

that is why i was was looking at the port(s) near the bottom since the smoke will of course rise. the fire would only be a few inches away from the wall. not being any sort of expert by any means on thermal energy....i was thinking that by providing a channel at that level, would cause the heated air to flow through it as a secondary path of travel. being that it is a small "duct" type system only a few inches wide, should create a draw on the heat of the flame? the primary energy source of course still travels upward.

i really haven't a clue...but i did stay at a holiday inn express last night. lol

it sounds good in theory. i thought i read something along these lines way back when. been out of school too long to tap into the memory banks.

 

[James0816]

lol...building official?....it's an outdoor fireplace/grill. dont rekon i'd have to have them inspect/permit the work.

 

[James0816]

that's not what i wanted to hear....i'm going to get a better drawing up to toss it around. stand by....

 

[James0816]

ok...here is my better drawing...sry...but you know how microsoft paint is.

 

[begreen]

Not a good idea for lots of reasons. Looks likely to send smoke right into the space desiring heat (house interior??). Also will be the source of a lot of cold air entering the space when the firepit is not burning. Big flaws are the ports allowing a direct path between the fire and the interior space. If there was a chamber surrounding the fire that was sealed absolutely tight against the fire yet heated by it, it would be somewhat safer. The chamber would need air instake vents near the bottom and the heated air would output to the interior.

But there are so many caveats here including the closeness of hot brick to wood, a natural rodent path, cold air intrusion, etc. that it hardly seems worth it for the minimal warmth that would be gained unless the firepit is going 24/7. (And it it is, then why outdoors?) This is also not to mention massive code violation possibilities.

 

[James0816]

wow....guess something like this is just not feasible. just another pipe dream. i woulda thought something like this would have worked in some shape or fashion.

 

[wg_bent]

wow....guess something like this is just not feasible. just another pipe dream. i woulda thought something like this would have worked in some shape or fashion.

Spend some time on the masonry heater pages, and also look at the designs for wood ovens, you might get some ideas from that. Also, if you were willing to cook, then divert the heat, you might be able to design a large sliding damper that would cover the cooking surface, and direct the exhaust into a seperate chamber. I would think that you'd want to direct the smoke out the back of the firebox, and around the oven (warmer) floor then out the top of the oven. so your either venting through the cooking surface, or when the cooking surface is covered by the large (metal?) "damper" or cover, then the whole system vents out a flue that essentially directs the heat around an oven that physically is above the cooking surface.

I think this could be done, but it will take a fair amount of engineering to get right. An interesting challenge for sure, but I think doable.

 

[James0816]

as a thought.....instead of venting from the pit into the warmer (or vise versa how it was explained above) where the air woudl actually be lost....would enough heat be generated/transferred if you will if the warmer did not have the ports exiting but instead within the bottom and the sides would be a sealed channel exiting back to the pit? did that make sense? so both entry and exit would be at the pit. hopefully a flow a hot air would heat the brick (we'll say splits to keep to the mass down - better chance of heating). would this create a warming affect inside the cubby?

i'm strechin...but gettin good info...thx for puttin up with me.

 

[James0816]

i dont think there would be any "dead" air as it should still flow through either opening correct? i would have an opening on the side still...and have the exit come back to the pit at the rear so the exhaust can go out. either way...if it pulls air from one end and routes it out the other...both ends are in the pit. i thought about using metal on the bottom of the warmer but being outside...i dont want it to rust out.

i thought about your suggestion "the old fashioned" way (like a bed warmer) by taking hot coals and moving them to an area. trying to avoid that kind of user interaction to prevent any type of accident that could occur during transfer of hot objects.

 

[James0816]

I have stated several times that this is an outdoor application only. why else would one want a firepit outdoors other than cooking and astetics. as for electricity....none....its in a wooded area. no electricity and too far from house to run extension cords...thus the "foolish" manufacuring idea of building a fire pit plus something else to keep things warm. Not people ... just munchies. I came here to gain knowledge....not to be called a fool. I'm actually shocked at it. If it takes more engineering to pull it off .. then so be it. I have the material and the time to make it functional and eye appealing at the same time. I wouldn't be here asking so many questions if I weren't fully committed to pulling this off.

 

[begreen]

James, thanks for the clarification. We all tend to be a bit cautious due to the risk of doing something dangerous with fire. Your idea seems overengineered given the application. What exactly is the space you are trying to heat? A cabin? Drying cabinet? That will help a lot. Give us the full plan. It's hard to give a real answer and frustrating when the important pieces of information just dribble in.

 

[James0816]

why have you turned so insulting? all i did was come here to get information. throw around ideas to make an idea happen. man...that's just completely rude. you obvisouly are the kind of person that has no ambitions of his own and has everyone to do things for you. gimanee crickets man...merit or not...someone comes to you (and others for that matter) for advice/assistance and this is how treat them? "loose your commitment" what kind of stupid remark is that. i did not insult you in any way nor have i provoked any type of hostilities (so i thought). i just simply came for knowledge. if you can't provide anything useful other than insults and disrespect...please keep your comments to youself and let others who are willing to assist or even attempt to assist respond.

 

[James0816]

James, thanks for the clarification. We all tend to be a bit cautious due to the risk of doing something dangerous with fire. Your idea seems overengineered given the application. What exactly is the space you are trying to heat? A cabin? Drying cabinet? That will help a lot. Give us the full plan. It's hard to give a real answer and frustrating when the important pieces of information just dribble in.

sry...i'll provide as much information as i can.

it pretty much boils down to having an outdoor fireplace/grill combo. that of course is the easy part. it will be made of brick and the pit itself will be lined with firebrick.

with the pit, i would also like to have a cubby hole right beside it to provide a "warmer" to keep the cooked foods warm. nothing grand just a simple cubby hole. the cubby will draw some heat from the fire to gets its warmth. so the question is how to get heat from the fire to the cubby effectively.

i provided a sketch above. it didnt appear to be functional so now i am trying to rework it based on some information that has been provided. I want to take out of the equasion user involvement (I.e. moving hot coals or material to a secondary location) in at all possible.

i'll be more than happy to answer questions and provide more info if needed.

 

[begreen]

OK, I think the simplest thing then is to just let the mass of the brick to the work for you. What you want is a warming oven. I suspect there are plenty of designs out there, but basically the warming oven chamber is adjacent the the flue and is "warmed" by the flue gases. Very simple. Put a nice old stove door on the warming chamber and voila. Heck if you are clever you could also add a brick pizza oven to the scheme. Now that would be cool.

 

[begreen]

Here are some links to get you started. They are for oven-building, but the concept is often similar and many of the sites have other good links, forums and contact info. Good luck James. Take some pictures as you build and complete it. Sounds like an interesting project.

http://www.fornobravo.com/pompeii_oven/pompeii_oven.html
http://heatkit.com/html/bakeoven.htm
http://traditionaloven.com/
http://www.ovencrafters.net/

 

[MrGriz]

Dylan, what do you have against the idea of building an outdoor fireplace that could double as a grill and warming oven? Were you somehow traumatized by such an animal as a child? I think said fireplace/oven would be a great addition to the back yard and have been watching this thread hoping to get some ideas myself.

I agree that there are less involved ways of cooking and serving food outdoors. However, if ease of use and design was the only consideration for all things how boring would the world be?!?! If that were the case, this would not be hearth.com, it would be something like mygasfurnace.com or fliptheswitch.com.

Just my .02

 

[begreen]

In-laws visiting?

 

[MrGriz]

I guess we all apply a certain amount of a post to our own situation. I am picturing the fireplace/warming oven off the north end of my patio and thinking that it would be a really cool way to fill the empty spot that I will create when I cut down that damn crab-apple tree (gonna have to do that while the wife is at work).

Also keep in mind that out in the woods is a relative term. What one considers to be the middle of nowhere could be considered quite urban by another's standard. My brother-in-law and sister-in-law think we live out in the middle of BFE, because we have to drive almost 10 minutes to get to a gas station or grocery store. Personally I would like to be farther out. Evidently James has some sort of area he wants to make use of 'out in the woods'. Since he has identified said area and put this time and effort into the planning and design of the elements to be included in the area, there is motivation behind his plan.

Granted, there is a chance this plan will never come to fruition, if not, what's the harm in creating the plan. You never know it could lead to something else even bigger and better than the fireplace/oven in the woods. For example, the fireplace/oven in the spot where that damn crab-apple tree (you know, the one that was lost in the terrible storm while my wife was at work) used to be. If nothing else, it's something to type about.

 

[MrGriz]

Ok, now were just hijacking!

To the point that it's too far for an extension cord. I did miss that. However, size of the cord being the relative matter, if James has a short cord...never mind, I think we just went beyond hijacking.

As far as the crab-apple blossoms go, I don't ever recall seeing Orioles eating them. We do have a robbin that nested in it the past two years.

James,
I believe you are after a grill type cooking surface, not a cooking oven. It's my understanding that the oven would be used for warming. What a rectangular fire box area, open on the top. Over one side, you could extend a boxed in section for a warming oven. The idea posted earlier about using an old wood stove door was a good one. The oven area would extend over the fire area and coal bed, which would heat the box. Over the other side, you could place a grate for cooking, which could be removed. I would try to draw it, but I don't know how to do that here. I am getting a clearer picture in my head though. This design would be open, with no chimney.

I'll keep pondering.

 

[James0816]

well...a few things....

first....if anyone wages that this thing will never get built...i'll definately take u on that offer just put the numbers done and i'll match em. would be one of the easiest $$ i've ever won. it may not be of original design....but it will definately get built. i design and build alot of things and many get reworked but built non the less...my house for one. i live in a log house (which btw i built myself).

second....woods....my backyard is the woods. 1250 acres worth. i have cleared a section out in my dogwood grove. this is too far from the house to run extension cords...wouldn't even think of using one even if i were closer. i may one day run electric and running water out to the entertainment area one day...but right now...i plan on keeping it rustic.

third...your coleman link....boring...i already have two "regular" grills out here. boring. I do have a nice jenn-air grill on my deck though. but now that i'm making a nice area in the woods/backyard...i don't have need of a regular grill. has no appeal for a log house. kinda like living in a dump and drivin a lexus. doesnt work. i take pride in my homefront.

 

[begreen]

It sounds awesome James. I hope the links were helpful. Keep us posted and take some pictures. I'll be interested in seeing what you design.