You Can't run away from me!

[FireWalker]

The Equinox was given a full load of my best locust this morning, big ones in the back and the rest on a nice coal bed up front. Things didn't fire up right off the bat like usual probably because the pieces were a little large. Of all days, this morning my wife got up early and joined me watching the news. About 10 minutes after loading a ball of flames erupted behind the glass and we got a good wiff of smoke....backfuff. Not bad but enough to notice. With the damper wide open I let her rip for a while then closed things down to half throttle and sipped some more coffee. The connector pipe started crackling indicating it was time to lower air supply but the rutland thermometer was not up to 400 yet so I let it go a little longer. I watched the TV for another minute or two and looked back to see the temp at the pipe was up past 500. I shut things down all the way and the flames kept going real strong. I didn't panic or let on I was concerned so not to scare my wife so I walked away for more coffee and when I got back the temp was at 600 on the connector. I checked the damper again, all the way shut and started thinking run away fire with a chuck full load of dry locust. Now I got a wiff of the breakin smell, things were hot for sure. I sat down giving it another minute to settle down and it did, just like that the flames went out and I actually had to open the damper to re-ignite the flames and everything was normal.

O.K., so this time it gave me some drama but didn't let me down. I like this stove.

Did I mention I got up early to tend the fire because the furnace kicked on. 40 minutes later it was very warm inside my house.

 

[edthedawg]

Can you point me to a description of the rest of your setup? flue size/length? size of house? OAK installed? Just curious how similar we might / might not be, and figuring the Eq and Heritage probably aren't all that very differently-operating machines. Thanks!

 

[FireWalker]

Can you point me to a description of the rest of your setup? flue size/length? size of house? OAK installed? Just curious how similar we might / might not be, and figuring the Eq and Heritage probably aren't all that very differently-operating machines. Thanks!

8" interior metalbestos chimney about 24' high with a freestanding stove top exit flue collar located in the center of a leaky open plan cathedral/balcony log home of about 1500sf downstair and 500sf upstairs, no OAK. When it's cold outside I need power. Previous stove Duchwest XL catalytic, which tried it's best to heat my home for 12 long years. Oil fired hot floor heating will not run if you are willing to feed the beast.

 

[Corey]

It's been my experience that running wide open can put a lot of heat into the flue, but not necessarily in the stove itself. That is to say, running wide open, I may see 400F stove temp and 450-500F stack temps, too. Closing down the air may get the stove to 700F, and the stack falls to 300F. (just throwing out some general numbers - your set-up is probably different)

The bottom line is with the stack and stove hot, this creates a lot of draft and it may take some time to settle down. But it definitely seems like there is a 'tipping point'. If you shut the air down and the stove is still drafting hard enough to keep the flue at the same temp - or get it hotter - this creates a run-away fire. If you shut the stove down and the flue begins to cool, the 'extra' draft will eventually disappear the the fire will calm down.

 

[FireWalker]

It's been my experience that running wide open can put a lot of heat into the flue, but not necessarily in the stove itself. That is to say, running wide open, I may see 400F stove temp and 450-500F stack temps, too. Closing down the air may get the stove to 700F, and the stack falls to 300F. (just throwing out some general numbers - your set-up is probably different)

The bottom line is with the stack and stove hot, this creates a lot of draft and it may take some time to settle down. But it definitely seems like there is a 'tipping point'. If you shut the air down and the stove is still drafting hard enough to keep the flue at the same temp - or get it hotter - this creates a run-away fire. If you shut the stove down and the flue begins to cool, the 'extra' draft will eventually disappear the the fire will calm down.

I'm following the users manual instructions. It is suggested that once a day (I do it in the morning) you should rake, load and run with damper open full for 10 to 15 minutes or until the connector (single wall) gets to 400. I expect this is a good way to keep things clean and ship shape. Interestingly enough, I find no mention of maximum stove top temps in the manual. It does go on about over fire but dosn't give a max temp.????????????? I've been up to just over 600 on the stove top and would guess I may have been there again this morning. Since I re-read the manual, I no longer keep the thermometer on the top of the stove, I now have it on the pipe which is good because I can see it from acroos the room.

 

[Rich L]

Always good to get your updates Firewalker.Have you put in a pipe damper yet?Me thinks you'll get longer burn times and more control of your fire with one. What kind of burn times are you getting from the Equinox now that it's a little colder?Also how's the heat output?And finally do you think the Equinox will be what you need when your coldest weather sets in? Gee ain't I inquisitive today!

 

[pumiglk]

Firewalker,
I have a probe set-up on mine along with the stovetop. I have had those "clean-out" fires run up to about 800-900 in the stack - approaching the "red zone" on the probe afew times when I packed it up with good wood and let it rip a little too long. Figuring 0.6 conversion through the pipe (someone posted that here once upon a time - no idea if that is accurate) but it works out it would read about 500 on a magnetic on the pipe. Pretty similar. I see exactly the same thing - it can lag 2-3 minutes even with the air all off before it starts to come down but then it can't sustain itself, at least not with any fury. The longer hotter burns occur once the stove itself is hot. I have found that these super hot fires don't tend to warm the stove up that much in there short life. I find a better way is to get it up to temp is starting wide open and then cranking back the air about half way when the stack gets to 500, at that point it stops climbing and stays steady at 450-500. As the stovetop starts getting to 400- 450 or so I typicall throttle it back to 7/8 closed and let it cruise. Great Stove. 2800 sq feet and not a drop of propane used yet - Family says its the warmest they have ever been. She does burn a bit of wood though - my stack of small spilt maple and cherry has taken a beating so far.

 

[DavidV]

Wow....I have my thermometer on the front face of the stove and I try to always keep it at or above 500....doesn't always work but that is where I want it.Burn hot, burn clean.

 

[pumiglk]

Hearthstone previously considered temps of 575 an overfire for the soapstone. They don't specifically give temp in the manual for this stove as Firewalker said. I save the 500 burns for the really cold days of which we have had few as I really need to rip this stove to get that 800 lbs of stone up to 500. Once I get it going like that it seems pretty easy for it to creep right up into the danger zone. Not sure how comparable temp readings are between the stone and cast or steel stoves. Has always been a curiosity to me as I see folks talkng of getting their stoves up to 600-700 degrees. Regarding clean burning I pay attention to the stack temps as that is what is in the chimney. I try to keep that at 400-600 except during coaling and burn dry wood. No deposits on glass etc. Will be doing a mid year check to see what the pipe looks like.

 

[FireWalker]

Always good to get your updates Firewalker.Have you put in a pipe damper yet?Me thinks you'll get longer burn times and more control of your fire with one. What kind of burn times are you getting from the Equinox now that it's a little colder?Also how's the heat output?And finally do you think the Equinox will be what you need when your coldest weather sets in? Gee ain't I inquisitive today!

No pipe damper yet. If I do anything it's going to be OAK as my home is not particularly tight and I think I get a certain amount of uncomfortable draft coming from my large expance of south facing glass. We do night insulation but it's still drafty.

I'm trying to keep up with my 6am to 6pm daily burn although I do go home for lunch and it's tempting to add wood. My main solar gains start at about 1pm (damn pine trees) and last only until around 3pm so the wood I add at lunch tends to smolder because it's too hot in the house. If it's cloudy and cold I'll add 2-3 splits for sure. At night, it gets packed at 6pm and run hard (if cold) until 11pm then whatever room is available gets filled again for low (7/8 closed) overnight run. Usually I'm greated at 6am with half of the split that was in the back glowing orange ready for stirring and a new day. I'm still waiting for a real cold spell to get a feel for maximum heat. I have to use a screen around our stove to protect our 2 year old and I afraid that cuts in half the stoves ability to move air around our house. I would love to toss the thing but safety first! I've burned 2 full rows this season from my shed which is 14' long and about 4.5' high. This is about the same as what my old duchwest would do. One row in my shed lasts one month in mid winter. It's time I refilled my shed from my mid winter stacks. I keep nagging my 14 yo son to get on it but.......................

 

[Rich L]

Always good to get your updates Firewalker.Have you put in a pipe damper yet?Me thinks you'll get longer burn times and more control of your fire with one. What kind of burn times are you getting from the Equinox now that it's a little colder?Also how's the heat output?And finally do you think the Equinox will be what you need when your coldest weather sets in? Gee ain't I inquisitive today!

No pipe damper yet. If I do anything it's going to be OAK as my home is not particularly tight and I think I get a certain amount of uncomfortable draft coming from my large expance of south facing glass. We do night insulation but it's still drafty.

I'm trying to keep up with my 6am to 6pm daily burn although I do go home for lunch and it's tempting to add wood. My main solar gains start at about 1pm (damn pine trees) and last only until around 3pm so the wood I add at lunch tends to smolder because it's too hot in the house. If it's cloudy and cold I'll add 2-3 splits for sure. At night, it gets packed at 6pm and run hard (if cold) until 11pm then whatever room is available gets filled again for low (7/8 closed) overnight run. Usually I'm greated at 6am with half of the split that was in the back glowing orange ready for stirring and a new day. I'm still waiting for a real cold spell to get a feel for maximum heat. I have to use a screen around our stove to protect our 2 year old and I afraid that cuts in half the stoves ability to move air around our house. I would love to toss the thing but safety first! I've burned 2 full rows this season from my shed which is 14' long and about 4.5' high. This is about the same as what my old duchwest would do. One row in my shed lasts one month in mid winter. It's time I refilled my shed from my mid winter stacks. I keep nagging my 14 yo son to get on it but.......................

Ya,I just put an OAK on my Fireview and I noticed less drafts going towards the stove and longer burn times.I'm still experimenting with the draft adjustments to regulate heat and heat times.I have a drafty house also.As I find them I plug them.What will you do differently with the stove to maximize your heat output once the real cold sets in ?Even so once we cut down or eliminate the drafts all our stoves will heat better.
You say you've burned 2 rows of 14' at 4.5' high what's that about 2 cords?I've burned since October about 3/4 of a cord of junk wood and Poplar and haven't touched my Oak,Maple,and Ash yet.I think I'm getting pretty good burn times due to my installing the pipe damper.Burn times should improve once I start using the better hardwoods and locate and plug more drafts.I say go with the OAK and the pipe damper.I don't know how difficult it would be for you to install the Damper especially if you have to move the Equinox.If you have to move it to do it the OAK will be way easier to install.

 

[FireWalker]

Rich, I've been heating since the beginning of September, gets cold in these parts. I'm not particularly trying to conserve my wood supply, just burning as comfort requires. 3-4 face cord seems normal for me so far, and I've only burned maybe 20 gallons of oil. I'm spoiled with our hot floor heating, I run the furnace in the morning just to keep the floors warm and comfortable. As far as maximizing heat output, I'll be turning up the damper and going thru even more wood I guess. It's funny, I've learned over the years that heating when below 0 it dosn't really matter if it's 0 or 20 below, it's cold and you just make as much heat as you can. If you can maintain 70 your doing real good. I don't expect to maintain nor do I want high indoor temps while sleeping.

I have yet to install interior storm window (plastic with wood frames) I made last year for my big glass which helps a lot with the drafts. I take it a pipe damper is a cheap and easy install and I may give it a try, can't hurt right. No moving the stove required, I can walk around my installation, so no problem there. OAK is more involved but dooable, I'm just kinda lazy as everything is working well for now.

Our biggest issue is low indoor humidity, I can evaporate 2 gallosn /day maybe more with colder weather but it's bone dry in my house running between 20 and 30% RH.

 

[karri0n]

... Is the following article bs? I was under the impression that an OAK was not only a waste of money, but in general not a good idea in the first place.

(broken link removed to http://woodheat.org/outdoorair/outdoorairmyth.htm)

 

[Rich L]

Firewalker it sounds as if you might have access to a good amount of firewood.By the way where is Lake George?It sounded exotic until you mentioned 0-20 below temperatures.Ya I guess you would have to make as much heat as you can in that climate.Yo when your making all that heat once you put in that very cheap though very useful pipe damper when turned you'll notice immediately more heat being thrown into the room,no doubt.I've used very little oil myself.Just in the morning at times to keep the wife comfy till the stove is refueled.That's only been when the previous nights' fuel was some dry punk wood which can only burn but so long.I need to learn more about that hot floor heating you've got,sounds cute.Of course you know when your turning up that damper to produce more heat more heat is going up the chimney.That's where your pipe damper comes in.Open up the damper let it rip and roar then after while engage the pipe damper that heat will blast back at you big time.Yes 70 inside when it's 20 below outside is definitely Miami.
You just gave me an idea for my large windows on my enclosed porch,I'm going to go out at lunch time and pick up that plastic that can be applied to sticky tape.I'll see if I can furthur reduce some drafting.
Our humidity issues are just the opposite.One fill of my tea kettle will last a week.You losing 2 gallons a day is something I can't concieve.Take care.

 

[FireWalker]

Where is Lake George you say????????? Why I have traveled all over this great big world and told many people whan asked where I live "I'm from Lake George", it's become kind of a game for me. You would be amazed how many people say stuff like "I used to go there when I was a kid, what a beautiful place, my grandfather had a camp there".................

Lake George New York up here in the Adirondack State Park.

Don't do that plastic with double stick tape stuff, works ok but you have to replace every year and clean up the used tape. Make a wood frame out of 3/4" x 3/4" poplar 1/4" smaller than the opening and then go to ACE hardware and get a roll of thicker clear plastic, staple to back side of frame using continuous 3/4" x 1/4" pine strips. leave the plastic a little long all the way around to get a good seal when you slide into your opening. Take em down in spring and back up again next year.

 

[Rich L]

... Is the following article bs? I was under the impression that an OAK was not only a waste of money, but in general not a good idea in the first place.

(broken link removed to http://woodheat.org/outdoorair/outdoorairmyth.htm)

Well if it is a myth,it's too late now.I just put one in with no ill effects as yet.

 

[FireWalker]

Hearthstone previously considered temps of 575 an overfire for the soapstone. They don't specifically give temp in the manual for this stove as Firewalker said. I save the 500 burns for the really cold days of which we have had few as I really need to rip this stove to get that 800 lbs of stone up to 500. Once I get it going like that it seems pretty easy for it to creep right up into the danger zone. Not sure how comparable temp readings are between the stone and cast or steel stoves. Has always been a curiosity to me as I see folks talkng of getting their stoves up to 600-700 degrees. Regarding clean burning I pay attention to the stack temps as that is what is in the chimney. I try to keep that at 400-600 except during coaling and burn dry wood. No deposits on glass etc. Will be doing a mid year check to see what the pipe looks like.

575 just dosn't seem that hot for stone. I sure would like to hav ean answer to this. 500+ is just to easy to reach and I have already flirted briefly over 600. Again though all this talk about temp and I can't be sure my rutland thermometer is at all accurate. I trust my nose and my spit soaked finger sizziling on the corner of the stove more than I trust that thermometer.

 

[Rich L]

Where is Lake George you say????????? Why I have traveled all over this great big world and told many people whan asked where I live "I'm from Lake George", it's become kind of a game for me. You would be amazed how many people say stuff like "I used to go there when I was a kid, what a beautiful place, my grandfather had a camp there".................

Lake George New York up here in the Adirondack State Park.

Don't do that plastic with double stick tape stuff, works ok but you have to replace every year and clean up the used tape. Make a wood frame out of 3/4" x 3/4" poplar 1/4" smaller than the opening and then go to ACE hardware and get a roll of thicker clear plastic, staple to back side of frame using continuous 3/4" x 1/4" pine strips. leave the plastic a little long all the way around to get a good seal when you slide into your opening. Take em down in spring and back up again next year.

Firewalker I'm a little slow.What will fill the 1/4" gap between frame and openning?And thanks for the geography lesson also.

 

[FireWalker]

Once the plastic is all stapled to the frame, cut around the perimeter leaving about 1/4 -3/8" of it extending beyond the edges. This will help seal the edges. When I said make the frame 1/4" smaller than the opening, that means when you fit the frame into the opening, there will be a 1/8" gap all the way around. It sucks when the frame is the same or slightly larger than the opening, don't ask me how I know.

 

[Rich L]

Once the plastic is all stapled to the frame, cut around the perimeter leaving about 1/4 -3/8" of it extending beyond the edges. This will help seal the edges. When I said make the frame 1/4" smaller than the opening, that means when you fit the frame into the opening, there will be a 1/8" gap all the way around. It sucks when the frame is the same or slightly larger than the opening, don't ask me how I know.

ok will do,thanks.

 

[Highbeam]

The heritage is allowed to run up to 600 and the woodstocks are relined somewhere near 700 as I recall. It is not hot compared to an 800 degree steel stove but a big stone stove at a steady 550 is making lots of heat. The steadiness of the lower heat level is what makes the system work.

That OAK article is BS. They are super cool. You need to find a better source like the chimneysweep's articles that make real sense. If OAKs were at all risky then the state of WA wouldn't require them. I couldn't pass inspection without it.

 

[frwinks]

some great info right here. thanks for posting your experiences with this stove ;-) This first hand stuff is better than any manual IMO.. by the time I'm ready to burn ours (next burning season) you guys will have it all dialed in

 

[wellbuilt home]

Hi fire walker, Hows your heat I'm kinda cold here . My stove seems to be burning a ton of wood and the house is kind cold . I feel like i'm trying to build up a head of stem on a loco .I'm burning about 6 to 12 cb ft of wood a day depending on the out side temps .The thing is when its 20o out side i can get the house warm . My DW would warm the house down into the teens . The EQ has twice the out put of the DW and 25% more fire box size . I think my wood is elm and its been cut and split for 11/2 years. It burns hot with lots of flame no smoke and leaves large red coles. last night I had 5" of coles and i could touch the stove with my hand ? The mail man dropped off a 8" damper but no thermometer yet . At the rate I'm burning wood ill need almost twice the wood i would have used with my DW and i will need to come by about 2 more cord . I think 6 cord of wood is a lot for one season . Ive seen some downed wood on a power line road by my house and I'm going to cut it up and throw it in the truck . I hope my wife wont have to bail me out later ,we have to go to a christmas party and i don't want to miss the cocktail hour . John

 

[FireWalker]

Hi fire walker, Hows your heat I'm kinda cold here . My stove seems to be burning a ton of wood and the house is kind cold . I feel like i'm trying to build up a head of stem on a loco .I'm burning about 6 to 12 cb ft of wood a day depending on the out side temps .The thing is when its 20o out side i can get the house warm . My DW would warm the house down into the teens . The EQ has twice the out put of the DW and 25% more fire box size . I think my wood is elm and its been cut and split for 11/2 years. It burns hot with lots of flame no smoke and leaves large red coles. last night I had 5" of coles and i could touch the stove with my hand ? The mail man dropped off a 8" damper but no thermometer yet . At the rate I'm burning wood ill need almost twice the wood i would have used with my DW and i will need to come by about 2 more cord . I think 6 cord of wood is a lot for one season . Ive seen some downed wood on a power line road by my house and I'm going to cut it up and throw it in the truck . I hope my wife wont have to bail me out later ,we have to go to a christmas party and i don't want to miss the cocktail hour . John

Sorry to hear about your trouble, I think what you need is a few arm loads of just ash for a test.

One guy here writes poems for folks.....I will just plagiarise someone Else's.

Beechwood fires are bright and clear
If the logs are kept a year,
Chestnut's only good they say,
If for logs 'tis laid away.
Make a fire of Elder tree,
Death within your house will be;
But ash new or ash old,
Is fit for a queen with crown of gold.

Birch and fir logs burn too fast
Blaze up bright and do not last,
it is by the Irish said
Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread.
Elm wood burns like churchyard mould,
E'en the very flames are cold
But Ash green or Ash brown
Is fit for a queen with golden crown.

Poplar gives a bitter smoke,
Fills your eyes and makes you choke,
Apple wood will scent your room
Pear wood smells like flowers in bloom
Oaken logs, if dry and old
keep away the winter's cold
But Ash wet or Ash dry
a king shall warm his slippers by.

So to re-cap........
Elm wood burns like churchyard mould, E'en the very flames are cold. Dude you need to mix some other wood in there. I will say after last night (near 0) I could make my Duchweat real hot if I wanted and burn a whole load of wood in a real hurry. The Equinox will not throw the kind of blinding heat as my old one would but makes up for it with long even burns. And yes I added wood at 3am last night as I was up anyway, but I kept 72 inside overnight.

I too think I am burning a little more wood this year but that can be explained by the fact that I heated all fall with wood this year, something I would not have done in years past because it was hard to get the DW to perform well in the spring/fall thus I heated with oil. This month will be the acid test as my wood shed tells me winter burn rate, one 14 foot row 4.5 feet high last one month in winter weather.

Keep us posted on the pipe damper, I'm also considering installing one.