You think your stove is too small!

[KarlP]

That is such a cute little stove!!

But yeah, why is it ok to have one on a boat, when I can't have one in my bedroom?

Because boats are not covered by the Uniform Building Code.

Can someone link me to the code that says you CAN'T have a small wood stove in a typical bedroom? Everything I've seen says you can have a wood stove but not a gas stove.

 

[begreen]

Just the opposite, you can have a vented gas stove, but not a solid fuel stove. However, there are some rare exceptions if the bedroom is very large and has no closed doorways.

 

[TreePapa]

Can someone link me to the code that says you CAN'T have a small wood stove in a typical bedroom? Everything I've seen says you can have a wood stove but not a gas stove.

No, you can't link the UBC because it is not online, it is SOLD in hard copy, CD, or subscription only-website format, for lots of $$ and w/ extreme copyright &*^%% attached. It is basically incorporated into law but you have to pay to find out what the code, i.e., the law, says.

BTW, I've seen plenty of pics in "Better Homes" type magazines and such, of either masonry or zero-clearance fireplaces in bedrooms. And I've seen a couple in "real lifve houses" too. My guess is that fireplaces are allowed becasue it would have created too much resistance from builders and homeonwers not to, but freestanding stoves are not. That's just my guess.

Peace,
- Sequoia

 

[fossil]

I can read all my local codes online on the Deschutes County website, but just like the NFPA pubs, I can't print or copy/paste them. Rick

 

[karri0n]

Vent free gas fp's are in every bedroom in my home...

 

[KarlP]

It is basically incorporated into law but you have to pay to find out what the code, i.e., the law, says.

The fact the laws say solid fuel is OK is what has me confused about the matter...

Oregon -
http://www2.iccsafe.org/states/oregon/08_Residential/PDFs/Chapter 17_Combustion Air.pdf

North Carolina -
http://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/Engineeri...nts/proposed/2009NCFuelGasCode_amendments.pdf

South Carolina -
http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/sc/st/b4v07/st_sc_st_b4v07_17_sec001_par004.htm

Arizona -
http://www.tempe.gov/citycode/08BldgRegs-InternationalResidentialCode.htm

Virginia -
http://www.sedgwickcounty.org/code_enforcement/resolutions/2006 Mechanical -FINAL COPY FOR RESOLUTION 120507.pdf

 

[begreen]

I chose one at random, the NC code. However, this is the gas code. It does seem to back the spirit of the international code:

CHAPTER 3
GENERAL REGULATIONS
301.8 Vibration isolation. Deleted.
303.3 Prohibited locations. Appliances shall not be located in sleeping rooms, bathrooms,
toilet rooms, closets used for storage or surgical rooms, or in a space that opens only into
such rooms or spaces, except where the installation complies with one of the following:
1. The appliance is a direct-vent appliance installed in accordance with the conditions of
the listing and the manufacturer’s instructions.
2. Vented room heaters, wall furnaces, vented decorative appliances, vented gas
fireplaces, vented gas fireplace heaters and decorative appliances for installation in
vented solid fuel-burning fireplaces are installed in rooms that meet the required
volume criteria of Section 304.5.
3. A single wall-mounted unvented room heater is installed in a bathroom and such
unvented room heater is equipped as specified in Section 621.6 and has an input rating
not greater than 6,000 Btu/h (1.76 kW). The bathroom shall meet the required volume
criteria of Section 304.5.
4. Deleted.
5. The appliance is installed in a room or space that opens only into a bedroom or
bathroom, and such room or space is used for no other purpose and is provided with a
solid weather-stripped door equipped with an approved self-closing device. All
combustion

Arizona is similar in spirit:

Sec. M1701. General.

Section M1701.4 is hereby amended as follows:

M1701.4. Prohibited sources. Combustion air ducts and openings shall not connect appliance enclosures with space in which the operation of a fan may adversely affect the flow of combustion air. Combustion air shall not be obtained from an area in which flammable vapors present a hazard. Fuel-fired appliances shall not obtain combustion air from any of the following rooms or spaces:

1. Sleeping rooms.

2. Bathrooms.

3. Toilet rooms.

EXCEPTION: The following appliances may be located in sleeping rooms, bathrooms and toilet rooms:

1. Appliances installed in an enclosure in which all combustion air is taken from the outdoors and the enclosure is equipped with a solid weather-stripped door and self-closing device.

2. Direct-vent appliances that obtain all combustion air directly from the outdoors.

 

[ChrisN]

In my second career I am a marina manager in Connecticut. we have a hell of a time keeping patron's dock boxes, dinks, and other miscellaneous items controlled on the docks. I don't even want to think about one of my live-aboard customers having a cord of wood delivered and stacking it on my pristine docks! (never mind the insurance implications regarding other winter wet storage boats and my own docks) That being said, those stoves are very cool. If one of my customers had a wood stove I'd be sorely tempted to sneak down on an icy winter day and have a cup of coffee with them!

 

[KarlP]

I chose one at random, the NC code. However, this is the gas code. It does seem to back the spirit of the international code:

Okay I screwed up by posting the NC and Tempe with the gas code. Quite random selection you had there. ;-) ;-) I don't doubt that gas or liquid fueled appliances are not allowed in bedrooms.

However here is a different link for NC that demonstrates my point (http://www.ncdoi.com/OSFM/Engineeri.../approved/2006NCMechanicalCode_amendments.pdf) -

Exception: This section shall not apply to the following appliances:
1. Direct-vent appliances that obtain all combustion air directly from the outdoors.
2. Solid fuel-fired appliances, provided that the room is not a confined space and the building is not of unusually tight construction.


And a different link for Tempe that demonstrates my point (http://www.tempe.gov/bsafety/BldgCodeAmend/2003_IMC_Amend.pdf)
Exception: This section shall not apply to the following appliances:
"1. Direct-vent appliances that obtain all combustion air directly from the outdoors.
"2. Solid fuel-fired appliances provided that the room is not a confined space and the
building is not of unusually tight construction.


Oregon -
Exception: The following appliances shall be permitted to obtain combustion air from sleeping rooms, bathrooms and toilet rooms:
1. Solid-fuel-fired appliances provided the room is not a confined space and the building is not of unusually tight construction.


South Carolina -
Exception: The following appliances shall be permitted to obtain combustion air from sleeping rooms, bathrooms and toilet rooms:
1. Solid fuel-fired appliances provided that the room is not a confined space and the building is not of unusually tight construction.


Virginia -
Exception:
This section shall not apply to the following appliances:
1. Direct-vent appliances that obtain all combustion air directly from the outdoors.
2. Solid fuel-fired appliances provided that the room is not a confined space and the
building is not of unusually tight construction.


Also Massachusetts (http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/dps/780 CMR/780067.pdf)

Exception: The following appliances shall be
permitted to obtain combustion air from
sleeping rooms, bathrooms and toilet rooms:
1. Solid fuel-fired appliances provided that
the room is not a confined space and the
building is not of unusually tight
construction.


Also Illinois (http://www.elmhurst.org/DocumentView.asp?DID=330)

Exception: This section shall not apply to the following appliances:
1. Direct-vent appliances that obtain all combustion air directly from the outdoors.
2. Solid fuel-fired appliances, provided that the room is not a confined space and the building is not of unusually tight construction.


Also Kansas (http://www.lawrenceks.org/web_based...rdinance8166_InternationalMechanicalCode.html)

Exception: This section shall not apply to the following appliances:

(A) Direct-vent appliances that obtain all combustion air directly from the outdoors.
(B) Solid fuel-fired appliances provided that the room is not a confined space and the building is not of unusually tight construction.


Also Alabama (http://www.cityofmobile.org/pdf/MechanicalCode2000.pdf)

EXCEPTION: This section shall not apply to the following appliances:
1. Direct-vent appliances that obtain all combustion air directly from the outdoors.
2. Solid fuel-fired appliances, provided that the room is not a confined space and the building is
not of unusually tight construction.

Also Ohio (http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/4101:2-3) -
Exception: This section shall not apply to the following appliances:

1. Direct-vent appliances that obtain all combustion air directly from the outdoors.
2. Solid fuel-fired appliances, provided that the room is not a confined space and the building is not of unusually tight construction.


Also Washington (http://www.ci.edmonds.wa.us/Public_Handouts/Building_handouts/B51-MECHANICAL.pdf)

Exceptions: 1) Direct vent appliances that obtain all combustion air directly from the outdoors,
2) Solid fuel-fired appliances provided that the room is not a confined space and the building is
not of unusually tight construction.

Also Florida (http://www.dca.state.fl.us/FBC/bcis/demo_report/0876 Appendix E.pdf)
EXCEPTION: This section shall not apply to the following appliances:
1. Direct-vent appliances that obtain all combustion air directly from the outdoors.
2. Solid fuel-fired appliances and fireplaces, provided that the room is not a confined space and the building is not of unusually tight construction.


So that's 12 states where wood stoves are clearly permitted. The secrecy around building codes drives me crazy. If they were REALLY about safety they would be publicly available for a nominal cost. I bet there are more states out there that permit wood stoves in bedrooms, but since the code isn't easily available...

 

[begreen]

The code seems consistent. It confirms what was posted earlier. If the bedroom is large and has no closed doorways, a rare exception can be made. In other words, they want to be sure that there is adequate combustion air so that the stove is not competing with humans for air. The average bedroom usually doesn't meet these conditions in that it's typically tight, has a door and is a confined space. But if the bedroom was large and had an open loft balcony then I could see applying for an exception under this clause.

 

[KarlP]

The code seems consistent. It confirms what was posted earlier. If the bedroom is large and has no closed doorways, a rare exception can be made. In other words, they want to be sure that there is adequate combustion air so that the stove is not competing with humans for air. The average bedroom usually doesn't meet these conditions in that it's typically tight, has a door and is a confined space. But if the bedroom was large and had an open loft balcony then I could see applying for an exception under this clause.

A confined space is defined one which has less than 50 cubic feet of air per 1,000 BTU of heater. With square 7.5' ceilings that means you'd need 6.66 sqft per 1000 BTU.

The stove in this thread has a high output rating of 28,000 BTU. So if the bedroom had 186.5sqft of floor space the stove would meet code. I think there are a lot of master bedrooms in the 12.5' x 15' range or larger in the US. As I pointed out in the other thread the VC Aspen is only rated for 18,000 BTU and should meet code in most bedrooms.


I just found a web page that I think explains it. The International Mechanical Code allows it. The International Fuel Gas Code does not.

http://www.rumford.com/code/IMC.html

Therefore wood/coal stoves ARE allowed in bedrooms. No?

 

[begreen]

As the code states, normally no, but as noted there is a code clause exception. If the room, stove and installation qualifies for the exception, it's worth bringing it up with the building dept. In the final analysis, it's up to the inspector.

 

[Bigg_Redd]

...To much breeding, it's horrid.

Well, why should the horses or any of the other animals we've taken to heart or found commercial value in be any different in that respect from us humans? We breed too much, and we encourage/facilitate their breeding. Then we recognize it (way too late) as a problem, and wring our hands and gnash our teeth over what's to be done about all of it. Dang, I'm gonna to have to moderate this thread right into the Ash Can if I don't stop posting so far OT. %-P Rick

Is that why the native populations of every industrial country (save America) are crashing?

 

[Steve Z]

They're really nice little stoves, but at $1,100-$1,800 a pop they're waaaaaay overpriced in my book.

We use a Dickenson Marine diesel fuel heater for our sailboat. It's easy to use, safe, and it's using a fuel that's already onboard, no worrying about humping fuel wood up and down the docks and trying to keep it dry and make space for it on the boat. I love wood heat, but I don't think it's very practical for boats........

NP

+1 yep. Very quaint and cool but have too agree with NonP about the practicality.

 

[Lanningjw]

If this stove is not "practical" why then do they have them on boats. Must be a market for them to offer this little stove on boats. They have made this stove for many years and it has its place. It is what it is.

 

[snowtime]

About 55 years ago I lived and cruised the pacific with my family. It was a John Alden schooner of 63' in length. When we were in northern [cold] areas we heated with wood. Had a ice box so after 2 weeks and the ice melted we lost our refrigerator unless there was a glacier near but I digress. The wood stove was great. When you look at it it looks risky but believe me a much more risky fuel is propane. Boats are tight and propane sinks so any leaks build up in the bilge. Lots of boats blown up with propane but I actually never heard of one burning because of wood stove. Most burn because of wiring and fuel [gas and diesel].
The thing about cruisers is they are super aware of everything about their yacht. If the boat swings from a different direction everyone wakes and checks why. Imagine if you were sleeping in your stove room you would never miss a change in the stoves performance. We had a large box on deck that kept about 1/2 of a cord. The thing is it takes very little wood to keep a boat warm this of course relates to its tightness and usually the water is warmer. We stayed away from civilization for months at a time and with wood we just had to go ashore and scavenge. I better stop here as my DW says I do go on. Lots of good memories of a time that will never come back.

 

[Lanningjw]

Snowtime,
I think your post is great about the stove and how it is used on a boat. I grew up racing sailboats in the midwest on a big lake. At the end of Oct, there was always a "Frost bite" race and it was always cold and windy. You would have your rain gear on, but always were so wet and cold. It would have been great to go down into the cabin and warm up with a stove.

Thanks for your story, Jim

 

[TreePapa]

If the building code restrictions on woodstoves in sleeping areas are based on combustion air vs. air for people, wouldn't an outside air kit address that issue? I wonder what Washington's (state) regs are on that, since OAKs are required for all installs in WA?

If I could install a woodstove in our bedroom by virture of an OAK, I'd be sorely tempted, even 'tho we live in a very mild clime. Our house is not "air tight" in the least.

Peace,
- Sequoia