1. Welcome Hearth.com Guests and Visitors - Please enjoy our forums!
    Hearth.com GOLD Sponsors who help bring the site content to you:
    Hearthstone Soapstone and Cast-Iron stoves( Wood, Gas or Pellet Stoves and Inserts)
    Caluwe - Passion for Fire and Water ( Pellet and Wood Hydronic and Space Heating)

10-cpm dirty stove issue

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by sculptor, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Yep. Within the 1st few burns.

    The Lytherm is softer. But the flat gasket is a little thicker and the Meeco's brand is kinda soft and its got an impression where its sat now for so long. I noticed a difference even after only having a few fires before I installed it. Any leak that you can reduce or eliminate, is more air for combustion :) I have installed a burn pot gasket on my Fahrenheit also. The burn pot on it, consists of 6 different pieces to make a whole unit (confusion?) So there are a few gaps and leaks. It helped it tremendously.

    I have a couple sheets of Lytherm. So when these fail, I will try it and compare. But something is better than nothing :)

    Helpful Sponsor Ads!





  2. sculptor

    sculptor Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    Loc:
    central nc
    Well, after 3 short bags...sigh. There is a problem that's NOT a dirty stove. The first pic is the stove before bed. The next pic is the full pot the morning after. DSC_0976.JPG DSC_0983.JPG
  3. DexterDay

    DexterDay Guest

    Whether its dirty or not. Its an airflow issue.

    Bad gaskets, plugged stove, plugged vent, OAK obstruction, or failing Comb blower.

    Take your pic and attack that area.
  4. sculptor

    sculptor Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    Loc:
    central nc
    I just got off the phone with Englander. Apparently, my stove is working fine. I did a complete clean 4 bags ago. Yesterday morning, I shut it down and vacuumed the burnpot out. I put in a 40lb bag of pellets and burned on 9 9. Before bed, I put in another bag of pellets to get me through the night, that's 2 bags...I wake up with a full burnpot. I was advised to clean the burnpot every 1 bag. So, instead of the daily shut down and vacuuming the burnpot daily...I'm told to do this every twice a day.

    He said it's completely normal to have to shut it down and vacuum out the burnpot for every 1 bags of Turmans I burn = twice daily! Nice! ;)
  5. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,121
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    Barf .....
  6. pourlepayssauvage

    pourlepayssauvage Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2012
    Messages:
    35
    Loc:
    Eastern Maine
    I think you said somewhere that you had vacuumed the exhaust vent, but I wanted to let you know I was experiencing the same thing last week - I have the same stove (bought new as a refurb over the summer) and after burning 20-25 bags my burn pot was looking similar to yours in the morning - cleaned/vacuumed everything and still had the same problem - I then tried the leaf blower trick and its back to burning the way it's supposed to.
  7. sculptor

    sculptor Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    Loc:
    central nc
    When I was explaining things to him he said "Well, there is a discrepancy in the number of bags you burned before cleaning the burnpot" when I didn't count the last bag that filled up the burnpot during the night and only burned half the bag. When I told him I performed Englanders weekly maintenance daily, he still insisted it's a dirty burnpot. When I asked him FOUR TIMES, are you saying I should shut the stove down EVERY SINGLE BAG I BURN AND CLEAN THE BURNPOT...he said yes! Four times. When I told him that means shutting the stove down and doing the DAILY maintenance TWICE A DAY...he said...that' normal.
    Or get a better pellet...I'm burning Turmans.

    I do the leaf blower trick. I even disassembled the vent and cleaned it that way.

    side note. He did do a diagnostic check and the CB is working fine. There has to be an air leak somewhere. If I can bother you guys for one more question? Can an air leak in the CB gasket cause this? Should I pull the CB blower again and check for this?
  8. jrsdws

    jrsdws Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    431
    Loc:
    Central Illinois
    Something still not right here. I've never burned Turmans but my understanding is that they are very good. With the worst pellets I've burned in my CPM, the burnpot always cleans itself and ejects remaining ash during shutdown cycle. I do give it a quick hit with the vacuum when I do quick cleans perhaps twice a week, but the pot is always pretty clear...just a little residual ash.

    The picture makes it clear that there isn't enough combustion air.

    Guys...could this be something with the vacuum switch or would it be throwing an E code?

    Ok...another quick checklist...everyone will add the things I overlook:

    1. Bottom button settings 1-4-1? It needs more air. Have you tried 1-6-1?
    2. Is the stirrer rod working? It should turn about 1/8" everytime the auger feeds pellets.
    3. Oak is attached and completely clean and clear of obstructions?
    4. Stove cleaned thoroughly...fiber board removed...ash traps removed..back wall tapped...thorough vacuum?
    5. Combustion blower removed and cleaned and gasket replaced if damaged?
    6. Door, hopper, and ashpan gaskets checked and/or replaced?
    7. Ashpan is closed and fully seated properly?
    8. Venting brushed and vacuumed clean completely?
    9. Burn pot is seated properly?
    10.

    This is a good little stove. We just have to put our finger on the culprit that's robbing you of air to the burn pot.
  9. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,121
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    You likely have ash inside the exhaust paths between the fire box and the combustion blower. This can be hard to get out even with thumping the rear wall and going through the ash clean outs and more thumping.

    If you have a strong shop vacuum you might be able to get this from the combustion blower cavity. Just have a spare gasket before doing it.

    In answer to your question not likely at all.

    Again, I'll mention the area from the air intake to under the burn pot.

    I don't have a clue about how well your burn pot sits in its receptacle, I seen a lot of burn pot air bypasses in this area on a number of stoves. Simple things like not grinding down large welds enough can cause these and can lack of welds.

    It varies and affects all stoves and models and makers.
  10. imacman

    imacman Guest

    Well, after looking at your first burning pic above, I am pretty confident there is an airflow problem.....that sure looks like a lazy burn to me. The only things I can come up with at this point are a bad comb. blower, or maybe a leaking/not fully seated ash pan.

    At this point, I think you need to contact Mike H. directly and explain what you've done, and have him look at the pics too. Try a PM on this site (stoveguy2esw, or mholton@englanderstoves.com, or stoveguy2esw@yahoo.com), or call Tech Service back and tell them you need to talk directly to him.

    When you finally reach him, also mention what the other tech told you about cleaning burnpot after 1 bag of Turmans. I've never heard of anything like this before.....I haven't touched mine and it's been a week and 5 bags of Stove Chow.
  11. sculptor

    sculptor Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    Loc:
    central nc
    I can confidently answer yes to all questions asked in checklist.

    Smokey, I can say that when I pulled the CB and installed a new one, I did see ash in the location mentioned and vacuumed it out before installing the new CB. I did mention the burnpot to the tech because it was brought up in this thread. He said it's very unlikely to be the issue. He said even if it does let in a little bit of air, it wouldn't cause this kind of problem.

    I'm starting to wonder about the gasket on the new CB I installed. It came with a gasket already attached, but I'm starting to think this is the area... I'm thinking about pulling it, inspecting it, and re-installing it. I think I should get a new gasket first.
  12. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,121
    Loc:
    Standish, ME

    You got all the way from the combustion blower cavity to above the burn pot in the firebox going in from the combustion blower cavity?

    I'm asking because I think (hard for old farts like me, you understand) there is crud still in there and also likely between under the burn pot to the end of the OAK.

    I understand I don't have your stove and heaven forbid that I'm calling Barf on the ESW techie you talked with.

    But I have dealt with a fair share of dirty stove syndrome and have traced down more than a couple air leaks.

    I know what I'd do and it involves a good dose of vacuum power, brush work, and thumping.

    Then I'd set the stove to burning on a nice low setting and adjust the flame (lfb and lba) before sending it out on 9 9 with a good dense pellet.

    Along the way I'd verify the agitator is functioning and I was getting some good fly ash action.
  13. sculptor

    sculptor Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    Loc:
    central nc
    Ahh! No I didn't get all the way to the burn pot. I just snaked it in until it met with resistance. ;)
  14. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,121
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    heat seeker likes this.
  15. ghandy131

    ghandy131 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    133
    Loc:
    Central MA
    I may have found the problem. I've been suffering the same fate of late and after the misses cleaned and cleaned and brushed and vacuumed we kept getting the same result. So I pulled the burn pot and lo and behold, the back side of the seat is warpped. I put the pot back and it actually rocks in one corner. I have seen fire coming up the back of the pot but hadn't thought much of it till now. I believe this will cause a massive air diversion and radically affect the burn rate. To those who know considerably more than I, could this be it?
  16. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,121
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    You don't want any air to miss the bottom of the burn pot and the pellet pile. Except the air taken into account with the air wash.

    Warped burn pots are bad news.

    As are improperly ground down weld blobs.
  17. imacman

    imacman Guest

    I had a warped burn pot in my 10-cpm when I first bought it....never knew about it until first cleaning. However, I had no issues burning even with the warp.....and certainly NOTHING like what Sculptor is going through.

    Sculptor, did you take my advice and talk to Mike H. himself about this, or at least send him an email?
  18. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,121
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    imacman, did you have that home made gasket in there when you were burning with the warped pot?

    That was one thing I was going to suggest to get him over the warped receptacle.
  19. Indiana

    Indiana Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Messages:
    266
    Loc:
    South Jersey
    After the power returned from hurricane sandy, I also have been experiencing a dirty burn. Not as bad as above but not normal. I did a reset yesterday. F5 displayed fine and then I checked the burn mode. I was in Corn mode #4. I know for a fact it was in mode #1 in the beginning of the season. Now back to normal.
    SmokeyTheBear likes this.
  20. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,121
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    That's another good thing to check on.

    You might want to talk to the folks at ESW about that as well.
  21. sculptor

    sculptor Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    Loc:
    central nc
    Not yet. Since I spoke with the tech today, I cleaned the burnpot & the stove again. I fired it up, and I'll wait until tomorrow. At least I'll be able to say I tried what the tech suggested...
  22. imacman

    imacman Guest

    No, I fixed the warped burn pot. The gasket is something I just tried this year.
  23. ghandy131

    ghandy131 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    133
    Loc:
    Central MA
    I sent Englander an e-mail Monday pm re, burn pot warpped skirt. Got a reply within an hour. They're sending me a new one today. Incredible customer service. I'll report back when I receive and install. There are considerable flames coming out the back of the pot and up the fire brick.
  24. sculptor

    sculptor Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    197
    Loc:
    central nc
    I think I may have found the issue. After I cleaned the stove and fired it up yesterday, I couldn't get the CB off my mind. I decided to shut the stove down and pull the newly installed CB. When loosening the the screws, I notice a tiny piece of the aluminum/fiberglass insulation pinched in between the CB and the stove. I removed and screwed it back down. I fired it up and woke up this morning without a burnpot full of pellets. ;em
  25. SmokeyTheBear

    SmokeyTheBear Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    12,121
    Loc:
    Standish, ME
    Where did that come from and how big is tiny?

Share This Page