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Another Jotul Oslo vs Castine Post: How to Size the Stove.

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by lumbering on, Jun 27, 2013.

  1. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

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    Even though our house is 6,000 square feet, when you start subtracting the closed off space like the unused third floor and basement, and the unused back rooms on the first floor, the actual downstairs is only 1,000 square feet.

    It sounds like you agree that the 300 square foot living room would get cooked by the Oslo.

    I'm surprised to hear you recommend the F100. I'm sure that's adequate for the living room, but would that mean giving up on heating the rest of the house?

    Would the hearthstone not heat us out to much because of the soapstone?

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  2. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Unless you move the air, with a couple narrow doors into the room you are essentially putting the stove in a small box. It doesn't really matter which stove. What matters is the amount of btus per hour that you are dumping into the space. Can you put a fan blowing into the room from an adjacent larger area or will that meet with disapproval? If not, stick with a small area heater.

    Another way to look at this. How long could you stand to be in the room with a 1500w electric heater running on high (no thermostat)? A 1500w heater is only 5,118 btus. The Castine is going to want to run at a minimum of twice that or you will be smoldering and blackening the glass.

    If you can use a fan to move cooler air into the room, post a sketch of the 1st floor plan for guidance on which doorway to put the fan near.
  3. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

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    Here is floor plan:
    floorplan.jpg
  4. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    A stud cavity fan on the common wall with the kitchen would help increase circulation to the main part of the house. If that is not an option, then a fan on the floor of the den blowing into the living room would be the next thing I would try. It's the easiest location to experiment with and stay out of major traffic.

    It looks like a nice stove in the large entry hallway would be the most effective heating location.
  5. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

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    We have to work with the current hearth location.

    We had the den closed off with a door during last winter, but I guess I could open the door as an escape valve for excess heat.

    Would the absolute best place for the fan be between the living room and the entry way?

    After looking at this floor plan, do you or others still think the Olso or Castine is too much stove??
  6. ddddddden

    ddddddden Minister of Fire

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    That's too bad. Woodstock makes beautiful stoves, and I agree with BG; a Woodstock would be a good fit for most of your requirements.;)

    I think you just answered your own question about whether to go bigger or smaller. If you are serious about putting a dent in your oil bill, go with a bigger stove. As mentioned, you can always burn a smaller load in a big stove, but you cannot burn a bigger load in a small stove.

  7. stovelark

    stovelark Minister of Fire

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    Hi Lumbering on- what part of NY do you live?? If the home is poorly insulated, and you want to spend time in that room too, its a best guess scenario. I think the Castine is prob the right stove, just know the burn times might not be overnight achievable. The Oslo is like a steam engine- once that 500 lbs of cast iron gets hot and burning, she is gonna be warm. The same can be said of the Castine too. I thought I wanted a painted black stove until my wife decided I wanted a brown majolica (antique chestnut) stove .... I think the Castine will be plenty most days- good dry seasoned wood absolute must. Good luck let us know how it turns out. Jotuls are great choices.
  8. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    If you are just heating the room, the Castine will be loafing. It may not have an overnight burn time, but it is a very capable heater. If you like to keep the den closed in winter, a very good solution would be to put the fan in the dining room entry way and blow it through and into the living room. How much do you use the dining room? If only when there's company, this could be a nice solution. It would help circulate heat into the house.

    What is on the kitchen wall that is in common with the living room? That also could present a neat, built-in fan solution that may have higher WAF.
  9. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

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    I actually broke through that wall and put in a doorway between the kitchen and the living room. It doesn't show that on the plans.
  10. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

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    Are we saying:

    1. That unless I find a way to move the air out of that 300 square foot living room with fans, we are going to overheat with the Olso in that room?

    and

    2. The Oslo will not heat the house due to the small room/old house layout unless I move the air with fans?

    3. An F3 or F100 is adequate to heat the living room, and I should consider downsizing because it's too difficult to heat the whole house?

    4. The Castine could still cook us out of the living room and I'll still need to move air to avoid this?

    OR

    5. The Castine may not heat us out of the living room, and still has a chance at whole house heating, as long as I don't care about overnight burns because it's a supplemental heat source?
  11. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    If you can move the heat out of the room I think the Castine would be ok. A lot of this depends on how the stove is run, but truthfully, you would do just as well with a small insert. Unless heat is moved out of the room the actual room needs are small. A stove in the entryway would be a whole different equation.
  12. DianeB

    DianeB Feeling the Heat

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    Don't go with the Oslo. If you are mainly trying to heat 300 sq feet and possibly the rest of the floor's 1,000, you will find yourself trying to damp down the fire - and possibly creating creosote and blackening your viewing glass. We have the Castine and it is great 90% of the time. There are near zero days we wished we had somthing bigger, but for 90% of the time, we would find it too large for the space we want to heat. With use of fans positioned to blow in the direction of the stove, we can create air flow that causes the heat to travel down the hall to bedrooms. I think with the Oslo in 300square feet of a small room, you might end up cracking open a window from time to time.
  13. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

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    Not going to be able to move the stove from the current location. I have to work with the hearth where it is. At least for this decade. We can see about the future.

    Again, I spoke with the Woodstock people, current hearth is not adequate for a Woodstock. Would have to rip out the bluestone, put in a layer of cement board, and replace the bluestone, then some masonry work to level make the fireplace itself level with the new bluestone height and a way to hide the cement board edge where it meets the hardwood floor. I'm having a hard time selling this idea. I have to make this as simple as possible.

    The KEYSTONE was actually my woodstock choice as well.

    All steel plate stoves have been rejected by my wife's no ugly stoves in the living room rule, so someone would have to find me either a cast iron cat stove or convince woodstock to make their stoves ember protection only. Or get me a time machine so I can build my hearth properly the first time.

    I think I can sell the idea of a few fans. Especially those skinny tower type fans that I can push up against the doorway.

    We definitely don't want to do an insert. Like the idea of a free standing stove too much.

    Any other options that I missed?
  14. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

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    Seems like most are voting castine, thanks
  15. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

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    can I ask how big your stove room is with the castine? and your overall square footage?
  16. webby3650

    webby3650 Master of Fire

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    The fact is, most people have a wood stove in their living room. If that was the only room they were trying to heat, then they would be roasting! We all move the heat to outlying rooms with a fan. Not very many people have a 2,000 square foot living room. Your situation is NOT unique! If you want to just heat the living room, just go with an open fire in the fireplace. Otherwise, no matter what stove you choose, moving air is a must!
  17. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

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    This is well stated.
  18. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

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    It's a good point. Some of these things seem like basic concepts, but for someone who doesn't know the basics (that would be me) it really is important to have them pointed out.
  19. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Yes, what is on the kitchen wall that is common with the living room? If it cabinetry, does it go all the way to the ceiling or is there a gap between the cabinets and the ceiling?
  20. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

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    I posted above, I actually broke through that wall during the remodel and put in a narrow doorway between the living room and the kitchen. It just doesn't show it on the plans.

    Does that change the estimate on how much that room may overheat?
  21. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    I am looking for a place to put in a built-in stud cavity wall fan like this for a kitchen ceiling to liv room floor distribution. http://www.tjernlund.com/Hearth.htm The common wall looks to be much wider than a door on the drawing. But perhaps there isn't room? If the drawing scale is way off, maybe post some pictures of the place so that we can visualize better?

    Tjerlund air-share.JPG
  22. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

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    I'd never heard of this before.

    I also forgot to mention that we have forced hot air/central air conditioning. The return duct is in the dining room.

    How effective is running just the fan at moving the air?

    Could I use the Olso if I run the fan on the central unit?
  23. Michael Golden

    Michael Golden Feeling the Heat

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    I have tried this and it doesn't work so well! But it does help cool things down a good bit.
  24. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

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    So it cooled down the stove room, but didn't warm up the rest of the house that well?
  25. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Duct losses usually negate the gains. If the basement is cold and the runs are long you could end up cooling the house down more. That is unless all of the ductwork is well sealed and insulated. But then there is also the cost of running the fan all the time. In an area of high electric rates this can be significant.
    lumbering on likes this.

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