Ash pans, not sure I like the idea anymore.

[My Oslo heats my home]

You may have (indirectly) saved someone from a real problem by bringing this up again. I almost lost sight of the value of repeating topics - its all good.

Funny, when I started typing the post earlier this morning and posted it, I looked and saw someone else that had started almost the same exact thread.
I'm at least glad the ash pan door issue was covered again. If just one, newer to burning, person learns something from a veteran here, I'm happy.

 

[jharkin]

I wont add to the bandwagon about the ashpan start up. In my early stupid days I did it too - only takes seconds for the stove to start making scary jet engine sounds. bad bad bad. (oh I guess I just did add to it )

Another aspect to the debate - Vermont Castings uses the ashpan as a source of supplementary primary air. In order to have the minimum intake air when the primary control is closed, rather than using a limit stop on the primary door they drill two extra air intake holes into the ash pan housing that let a small amount of air directly into the coal bed through the grate. Some VC owners let the ash pan fill up and don't empty it as a way to restrict this air and improve control.

 

[Sprinter]

With the number of people who like using their ashpan (for ash removal...), some stoves apparently have more useful systems than others. I tried to use mine at first but found it more trouble than it was worth. Then I read of some troubles with the door not sealing properly sometimes causing air leaks, so I've not used it since and let it fill up. Ash is probably a better insulator than brick anyway. Shoveling into a metal pan with a straight edge shovel is fine for me.

 

[Todd]

I wont add to the bandwagon about the ashpan start up. In my early stupid days I did it too - only takes seconds for the stove to start making scary jet engine sounds. bad bad bad. (oh I guess I just did add to it )

Another aspect to the debate - Vermont Castings uses the ashpan as a source of supplementary primary air. In order to have the minimum intake air when the primary control is closed, rather than using a limit stop on the primary door they drill two extra air intake holes into the ash pan housing that let a small amount of air directly into the coal bed through the grate. Some VC owners let the ash pan fill up and don't empty it as a way to restrict this air and improve control.

Woodstock Keystone and Palladian have a hole drilled into the ash pan as well. I've played around with it and it burns better leaving it as is but I could see someone with a taller chimney needing to plug that hole.

 

[Dave A.]

Don't have an ash pan on my insert. But there are times (like in this recent cold snap) where I want to get some heat quick, and I found that I had cut back the air too soon before I got a hot enough stove top to really put out the heat. So I need to go back and get it hotter.

Usually turning up the air by intself won't get it back up there, so I'll open the stove door to get the flames going again, which takes less than a minute, then I'll close the door to the point (oh, about an inch open) where everything get's real intense for another moment, and then close and latch the door and wait with air fully open to get the stove top temp moving up again and then cut it back (in steps) to get the top temp I want.

Any danger of explosion there?

 

[Seanm]

With the number of people who like using their ashpan (for ash removal...), some stoves apparently have more useful systems than others. I tried to use mine at first but found it more trouble than it was worth. Then I read of some troubles with the door not sealing properly sometimes causing air leaks, so I've not used it since and let it fill up. Ash is probably a better insulator than brick anyway. Shoveling into a metal pan with a straight edge shovel is fine for me.

Ive read about leaks as well sprinter. I packed mine with ash and left it after a couple of tries.

 

[Jags]

Any danger of explosion there?

Not so much. You are introducing the air above or at the fire, not from below. It doesn't create the "forge" that feeding air from the bottom does.

ETA - BUT...when you see posts about a stove backpuffing or "woofing" - that is a lesser result of basically the same thing. Creating combustible gasses without sufficient air to allow it to burn. The stove will try to pull the air from where ever it can, and when it does, the gasses ignite. Enough gasses and it will go from whoof to BOOM!

 

[Dave A.]

Creating combustible gasses without sufficient air to allow it to burn. The stove will try to pull the air from where ever it can, and when it does, the gasses ignite. Enough gasses and it will go from whoof to BOOM!

Don't want to hijack the thread, but have not had that problem with the Summit, maybe the EBT device senses a need for additional air and opens, in that scenario. Just speculating.

Anyway, you seem to be suggesting, to be careful about cutting back the air too quickly.

 

[Sprinter]

ETA - BUT...when you see posts about a stove backpuffing or "woofing" - that is a lesser result of basically the same thing. Creating combustible gasses without sufficient air to allow it to burn. The stove will try to pull the air from where ever it can, and when it does, the gasses ignite. Enough gasses and it will go from whoof to BOOM!

That did happen to me a couple of times early on when getting used to operating the stove. We were just cutting back to quickly. And my flue is only 13' so the draft isn't great. But it hasn't happened since.

 

[jharkin]

Woodstock Keystone and Palladian have a hole drilled into the ash pan as well. I've played around with it and it burns better leaving it as is but I could see someone with a taller chimney needing to plug that hole.

Yea, I think that's the key. I'm on a short stack, maybe 18ft and have no problem with it open. Folks on 30 footers seem to like to plug it.

 

[Jags]

Anyway, you seem to be suggesting, to be careful about cutting back the air too quickly.

Yep - I am not trying to introduce any science to this or make it complicated in any way. It really isn't. It is just the basic fuel/oxygen/spark discussion. I suspect that most don't actually equate the fire in the box to gasses - but that is EXACTLY what is burning (for the most part) during the beginning of the cycle.

I am getting a little off kilter to the OP, but I hope it makes sense on how it works.

I like my ashpan.

 

[bag of hammers]

So if the stove's ash pan plug was leaky, is it reasonable to think that this could set up the same sort of situation? I suppose it would (or should?) be kinda obvious if it was sucking air up from a leaky plug, but otherwise, it seems like a leaky ash pan (plug) is not just mucking with the burn / control, it might actually be a bit more dangerous than one might know...?

edit - now I'm being redundant (same question as before, maybe?) but I really don't wanna be a Jags (no offense, Jags...)

 

[Jags]

but I really don't wanna be a Jags (no offense, Jags...)

Reality is - a leaky plug is probably not going to have the ability to introduce the amount of air to cause a dangerous situation. Maybe a pain in the butt - but most likely, not dangerous.

 

[Dave A.]

where everything get's real intense for another moment, and then close and latch the door and wait with air fully open to get the stove top temp moving up again

Quoting my own message, I didn't make it clear that I had the air full open BEFORE I closed the door, and I'm suspecting that that is the key to where the problem comes in. E.g. if I had the air closed at that point while the door was open, then closed the door planning to turn up the air after I closed the door, that would be too late, creating a problem situation of backdraft or explosion as soon as the door closed.

I don't recall what Jags said in his post about the air level setting when he closed the ash door, but am suspecting it was not fully open at that point, or there would not have been the problem.

 

[bag of hammers]

Reality is - a leaky plug is probably not going to have the ability to introduce the amount of air to cause a dangerous situation. Maybe a pain in the butt - but most likely, not dangerous.

Thanks - sanity check appreciated...

 

[Jags]

I don't recall what Jags said in his post about the air level setting when he closed the ash door, but am suspecting it was not fully open at that point, or there would not have been the problem.

It was fully open to begin with, but using the ash pan door created such a gain in temps so fast that when I shut the ash pan door, I also slammed down the primary air. It was my mistake - I take full credit for it. Maybe it wouldn't have happened if I left the primary air open, but I was at a temp that it NEEDED to be shut down (a distraction caused this whole scenario).

 

[firefighterjake]

I appreciate all the responses, and sorry for the repost of a overly talked about subject. I'm going to hang out with the 'let the ash pan fill' idea and go from there. It's something I have been doing lately anyways. My thoughts were also on useable space too, the grate is arched and if I removed it and went with something flat I would gain a little more space.

Uh . . . could you post a picture of this arched grate? I have a bit of a concern here since my grate is most definitely not arched and is pretty much flat . . . it may stick up a couple of millimeters, but not enough to gain a whole lot of space. I'm wondering now if there is a problem with your grate.

As for the original question . . . I find the ash pan in the Oslo is one of the best features, but to each their own. I haven't noticed any change whether the ash pan is full or empty . . . and like some owners tried getting the fire going with the ash pan open early on until I quickly learned (two or three fires) how bad this is with actual users and actual pics . . . now I only start the fire with the side door ajar.

This said, if you prefer to not use the ash pan, it's all good as well.

 

[My Oslo heats my home]

Uh . . . could you post a picture of this arched grate? I have a bit of a concern here since my grate is most definitely not arched and is pretty much flat . . . it may stick up a couple of millimeters, but not enough to gain a whole lot of space. I'm wondering now if there is a problem with your grate.

As for the original question . . . I find the ash pan in the Oslo is one of the best features, but to each their own. I haven't noticed any change whether the ash pan is full or empty . . . and like some owners tried getting the fire going with the ash pan open early on until I quickly learned (two or three fires) how bad this is with actual users and actual pics . . . now I only start the fire with the side door ajar.

This said, if you prefer to not use the ash pan, it's all good as well.

Now you have my attention. My grate is raised about 1"-1-1/4" high in the center. I thought it was weird when I got the stove but always thought there was a reason why it was like that. I really think it serves no purpose.

 

[Paulywalnut]

I am an ash pan convert also. Let it fill up. There are more coals in the morning to just throw on some small
stuff and it goes right up.

 

[firefighterjake]

Now you have my attention. My grate is raised about 1"-1-1/4" high in the center. I thought it was weird when I got the stove but always thought there was a reason why it was like that. I really think it serves no purpose.

Maybe other Oslo users will chime in here . . . but in my opinion something is not right . . . my Oslo's grate is pretty much flush.

 

[Paulywalnut]

I think yours is normal Jake. Sounds like a raised grate would not be the norm. My Castine is flat.
Just a smaller version of the Oslo.

 

[RockyMtnHigh]

I went to a training a few months ago that was ran by Mark the head tech at Jotul. The ashpan is there for no other reason than to pull it out while cold and dump the ashes. If you have a brand new Jotul and run it with the ashpan open and it cracks they will know and they will deny your warranty.

That said, he burns a Rangely in his basement and he doesn't even empty his ashpan, he shovels his stove out. I think we can trust his judgment....