Brand new to stove world...should we get a coal stove instead of a wood one?

[ErinMarie]

Hi -

I searched for "coal" on this forum and didn't quite see the answer I was looking for, so I thought I'd post a new topic and ask for help.

My husband and I have an old house (well over 100 years, maybe over 200 - I don't know yet) and we use heating oil to heat our house. We live in a twin house - it's 3 stories (two floors with a finished attic). We live in southeastern PA and between the cold winters, sucky windows, and poor insulation we spend a fortune on oil every year, especially since the cost keeps rising. We are 99.9% sure we are going to get a stove, and spent over an hour talking to a person at the local stove shop. We asked a ton of questions about wood stoves, but then I asked about coal stoves. Seriously, I never even knew that people had these. I'm originally from Cleveland and never even used heating oil until buying a house here in PA. So all of this is quite foreign to me.

We are looking to get a stove to reduce our heating costs. With the way our house is set up, we are aiming to heat the first floor and the 2 used bedrooms on the 2nd floor, which are right above where we'd put the stove. To faciliate airflow to the upstairs we're going to cut out registers in the floors of each bedroom and one/two in the ceiling near our stove. Our home has 4 heating zones/thermostats -- so we're thinking we'll turn the downstairs zone off, and keep the 2nd & 3rd floor zones set at about 50 degrees (just in case it gets so cold, to prevent pipes freezing). We are rarely on the 3rd floor so heating that area is not a big deal (other than keeping the pipes warm). And we're hoping the stove will sufficiently heat the bedrooms on the 2nd floor so that the oil doesn't kick on.

SO...I just wanted to state all of that as background. The girl at the stove shop said that she & her husband considered a coal stove but got a wood stove instead because the coal burned so hot that it'd be like sitting in an oven. I don't want that! My specific questions are:

1. Which is better, wood or coal?
2. How much does a coal stove cost in comparison to a wood stove? What about coal stoves like the Harman TLC-2000 that burns both coal & wood? (I know prices may vary by area...just looking for an estimate in the difference.)
3. Can you burn wood in any coal stove? (I know you can't burn coal in a wood stove...) If so, would it be advantageous to purchase a stove that can burn multiple fuels?
4. Will our house be an oven if we get a coal stove?

I'm not too concerned with the work that goes into tending the stoves - since this is all new to me I'll only know what I learn. So if a coal stove is more cost-effective and won't burn my buns, then if it's more work than a wood stove to run I don't think I care. Also, we're estimating having to purchase wood, so I'm not counting the idea that wood can be free.

Please help me! I know this is a long post, but from reading through these boards I can see you all really know what you are doing. Thanks so much for reading this.

 

[babalu87]

Welcome.

Pennsylvania is THE spot for a Coal stove ( there is plenty of it in your state so the prices are good )and yes, you can burn wood in a coal stove.
As far as the coal burning hot, well, thats bunk all stoves burn hot. The room where the stove is WILL be warm but with good air movement it will also be comfortable.

 

[Eric Johnson]

You can get any number of stove brands and models that burn both coal and wood. Since you're in coal country already, I'd seriously consider getting one that can burn both. That way you've got more flexibility and if you don't happen to have dry wood, you can always burn coal. Or if coal prices go through the roof, go back to wood. Or do some of both.

I think there are advantages to both fuel sources, but you will probably find that one is better than the other, depending on your situation. And I wouldn't worry about getting too hot, although you need to understand the nature of stoves, which is that they use radiant heat. So the closer you get to the stove, the hotter it's going to be. You can mitigate that somewhat with fans and air circulation schemes, but there's no getting around the fact that a stove is not a central heating appliance.

If you already have a forced air or water-based (hydronic) heating system, then with a house like yours, I'd seriously consider either a furnace or a boiler. Again, many brands and models will burn both coal and wood.

 

[BrotherBart]

Member Corie lived in PA up until this year and is experienced with both wood and coal stove usage in addition to making his living as a stove engineer. I will send him a PM alerting him to your questions.

 

[webbie]

You will find a lot of answers to these questions in our QA, as well as some in our articles section.

For starters, check out these:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/coal_stoves/
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/coaltips

Also, this off-site link to a coal stove forum should also help:
http://www.nepadigital.com/bb/index.php

Short but sweet:
1. Coal is probably cheaper for a full time fuel unless you cut your own wood or get it very cheap.
2. Coal stoves usually cost the same or less.
3. Most coal stoves can use wood on occasion, and always do for starting, but if you are really going to burn a decent amount of wood, the Harman may be the proper unit.
4. Coal is very controllable - more so than wood

 

[ErinMarie]

Wow!! So many answers already - THANK YOU so much! I'll keep checking back for more replies. You guys are great.

 

[jpl1nh]

I would have a hard time disagreeing with the experts here about going with a stove that burns both wood and coal. However, please remember that wood is carbon nuetral, (ie rereleasing CO2 from our time era), coal is decidely not. If you want to go green, use wood as much as possible. :coolsmile:

 

[wg_bent]

I agree with the answers here. Coal is a lot less work than wood though. You also might want to consider the ultimate coal stove... a stoker. They work like a pellet stove, and can be thermostatically controlled to adjust the burn rate for the heat needed.

A Coal stove can burn wood, but just not as well as a wood stove. The TLC-2000 is a particularly nice stove that can do both.

Be careful on cutting registers. That will cause a big problem in the event of a fire. Not sure you'd be sticking to code by doing that.
Essentially you cause a chimney to be created.

Aside from the Green-ness of the coal vs wood, coal is the way to go. You do want to size the stove well, as coal stoves can produce a lot of heat.. that's their beauty. They also produce it on a very consistent basis, vs the ups and downs of many wood stoves. If your concerned with environmental aspects, go wood. If you have access to free wood... go with wood. If you don't mind the work of wood... go with wood

 

[Jags]

Stating that you have 4 zones for heat control currently, leads me to believe that you have a boiler system currently. This being the case, have you considered an add-on wood/coal boiler? Just an idea.

 

[ErinMarie]

Stating that you have 4 zones for heat control currently, leads me to believe that you have a boiler system currently. This being the case, have you considered an add-on wood/coal boiler? Just an idea.

Hmm...this could be the best idea yet.

Yes, we have a boiler. It's set up in a summer-winter hookup, which means we're burning oil even in the summer to heat our water. We talked about getting a water heater, but after calculating it seemed it wouldn't save us that much money to make it worthwhile, unless we had a cheaper way to heat our house in the winter. (Using the energy usage estimates for the water heater and the costs of our energy (PECO) it seemed like a break-even situation when using a water heater with the heating oil boiler.)

Can we get a new boiler that is solely wood/coal? I guess so, that's what they did in the olden days, right?

Thanks so much for all of your help - this is such unknown territory for us. It's nice to have unbiased answers. Not that I didn't believe the girl at the stove shop - she was GREAT and thoroughly answered all our questions - but this is helping me understand that much more.

Quick question - @ cutting registers - if we're just cutting through the floors/ceilings through the floor joists...that is like creating a chimney? Thanks for mentioning it going against code...we will be sure to check on the legality/safety of that.



OH...and our current boiler is very old - at least 30 years old. We're told it's in good shape everytime it's inspected by the oil company, and is rather efficient despite its age. But getting a new boiler is not entirely out of the question -- worst situation would be getting a new stove, a water heater, and then having our boiler crap out on us. So getting a new boiler might be a good move. Ya think?

 

[keyman512us]

Hi -

I searched for "coal" on this forum and didn't quite see the answer I was looking for, so I thought I'd post a new topic and ask for help.

First off...Welcome to the Forum. Also check out another separate site "The Anthracite Coal Forum":
http://www.nepadigital.com/bb/index.php

My husband and I have an old house (well over 100 years, maybe over 200 - I don't know yet) and we use heating oil to heat our house. We live in a twin house - it's 3 stories (two floors with a finished attic). We live in southeastern PA and between the cold winters, sucky windows, and poor insulation we spend a fortune on oil every year, especially since the cost keeps rising. We are 99.9% sure we are going to get a stove, and spent over an hour talking to a person at the local stove shop. We asked a ton of questions about wood stoves, but then I asked about coal stoves. Seriously, I never even knew that people had these. I'm originally from Cleveland and never even used heating oil until buying a house here in PA. So all of this is quite foreign to me.

What type of oil heat???? Hot air furnace? Hot water hydronic (baseboard) heat??? Coal/wood fired add on untis are available to tie into your existing system.

We are looking to get a stove to reduce our heating costs. With the way our house is set up, we are aiming to heat the first floor and the 2 used bedrooms on the 2nd floor, which are right above where we'd put the stove. To faciliate airflow to the upstairs we're going to cut out registers in the floors of each bedroom and one/two in the ceiling near our stove. Our home has 4 heating zones/thermostats -- so we're thinking we'll turn the downstairs zone off, and keep the 2nd & 3rd floor zones set at about 50 degrees (just in case it gets so cold, to prevent pipes freezing). We are rarely on the 3rd floor so heating that area is not a big deal (other than keeping the pipes warm). And we're hoping the stove will sufficiently heat the bedrooms on the 2nd floor so that the oil doesn't kick on.

This can be somewhat of a "conflict". A "stove" is generally for "space heating" a boiler/furnace could be considered "area heating(whole house)" It's hard to find a delicate balance...you might need to 'narrow' expectations a bit.

SO...I just wanted to state all of that as background. The girl at the stove shop said that she & her husband considered a coal stove but got a wood stove instead because the coal burned so hot that it'd be like sitting in an oven. I don't want that! My specific questions are:

"Urban Legend" but it does throw nice heat if sized properly.

1. Which is better, wood or coal?
2. How much does a coal stove cost in comparison to a wood stove? What about coal stoves like the Harman TLC-2000 that burns both coal & wood? (I know prices may vary by area...just looking for an estimate in the difference.)
3. Can you burn wood in any coal stove? (I know you can't burn coal in a wood stove...) If so, would it be advantageous to purchase a stove that can burn multiple fuels?
4. Will our house be an oven if we get a coal stove?

Very long discussion...suffice to say... do some specific searching here and over on the Anthracite forum.

I'm not too concerned with the work that goes into tending the stoves - since this is all new to me I'll only know what I learn. So if a coal stove is more cost-effective and won't burn my buns, then if it's more work than a wood stove to run I don't think I care. Also, we're estimating having to purchase wood, so I'm not counting the idea that wood can be free.

Being in PA it is worth looking into. I'm probably going to catch some 'flak' for this...but aside from really scientific views..."Anthracite coal burns clean" it produces no visible smoke...very important for some people (like me).

Please help me! I know this is a long post, but from reading through these boards I can see you all really know what you are doing. Thanks so much for reading this.

Do some searching and come on back later...We'll be here.

 

[Eric Johnson]

OH...and our current boiler is very old - at least 30 years old. We're told it's in good shape everytime it's inspected by the oil company, and is rather efficient despite its age. But getting a new boiler is not entirely out of the question -- worst situation would be getting a new stove, a water heater, and then having our boiler crap out on us. So getting a new boiler might be a good move. Ya think?

I would definitely consider a boiler. You can pipe it right into your existing system and heat your whole house, all your hot water, and have a reliable backup in the form of your existing oil boiler. And yes, you can buy a boiler that will burn both coal and wood, and quite a few other things (like corn cobs) if you like.

I've heated two old farmhouses with three different wood-fired boilers, and it's definitely a good way to avoid spending a fortune on insulation and new windows and doors. If you buy your wood in log form by the truckload, cut and dry it yourself, you'll not only stay in shape, but heat your house and hot water for a lot less than $1,000 a year. Seriously. Boilers cost more than stoves to buy and install, but you get it all back pretty quick.

 

[jpl1nh]

OH...and our current boiler is very old - at least 30 years old. We're told it's in good shape everytime it's inspected by the oil company, and is rather efficient despite its age. But getting a new boiler is not entirely out of the question -- worst situation would be getting a new stove, a water heater, and then having our boiler crap out on us. So getting a new boiler might be a good move. Ya think?

I would definitely consider a boiler. You can pipe it right into your existing system and heat your whole house, all your hot water, and have a reliable backup in the form of your existing oil boiler. And yes, you can buy a boiler that will burn both coal and wood, and quite a few other things (like corn cobs) if you like.

I've heated two old farmhouses with three different wood-fired boilers, and it's definitely a good way to avoid spending a fortune on insulation and new windows and doors. If you buy your wood in log form by the truckload, cut and dry it yourself, you'll not only stay in shape, but heat your house and hot water for a lot less than $1,000 a year. Seriously. Boilers cost more than stoves to buy and install, but you get it all back pretty quick.

They are not romantic....

 

[BrotherBart]

They are not romantic....

I'm sixty. I want a boiler.

 

[jpl1nh]

They are not romantic....

I'm sixty. I want a boiler.

LOL

 

[Eric Johnson]

My wife seems to think a $20 gas bill in February is pretty romantic.

 

[begreen]

LOL. Priceless Eric.

 

[wg_bent]

Quick question - @ cutting registers - if we’re just cutting through the floors/ceilings through the floor joists...that is like creating a chimney? Thanks for mentioning it going against code...we will be sure to check on the legality/safety of that.

Our local code guy (Calling Elk) could answer that directly, but yes. Cutting holes in the floor isn't a good idea.

 

[Mike Wilson]

Based upon what you have said thus far, particularly the fact that you have an older house and live in coal country, I would purchase a coal stoker stove, and nothing else. While the thought of burning wood may have some appeal, you will do much better with a dedicated coal stove. A stoker for convenience but costs more, or a larger hand fired unit for economy. Keystoker, Hitzer, Leisure Line, Harman, and a few others should be your focus. Talk to the guys over at the NEPA coal forum, someone else posted the link above. They are the de-facto experts on coal.

-- Mike

 

[elkimmeg]

How much do you value your life and safety, or for that matter your familly members? Is it worth compromising to gain heat flow from a stove?

This is the real question you should be answering before curring holes in floors and ceilings into bedroom sleeping areas. In doing so,, you just eliminated the natural containment barriers
they provide and created an expressway to disaster. Fortunately for you and your familly, you found this site and have the advantage finding out it is not a good idea.

Here is a link that discusses a simmilar issue and the reduced safety issues . Me I want every possible second to safetly exit from a disaster. I never want a pathway for Carbon monoxide
entering a bedroom. did you know it is safer to sleep with you bedroom door closed? why containment?

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/8181/

 

[Corie]

Hi ErinMarie and welcome to the forum.

As far as coal stoves go, the area you live certainly makes a good case for purchasing one. As has been said by others, coal is more controllable, requires less tending, burns with a much more constant heat output than the peaky nature of a wood fire, etc, etc. There are some very good stoves on the market that will burn coal very well and will also burn wood fairly well, although doing so is technically against the law (A stove that is listed for coal only can only burning with wood for the purposes of starting the fire).

Nonetheless lots of people do it, and as long as you burn nice hot fires, you'll have no problem if you do decide to burn some wood in your coal stove.

That said, a coal boiler or stoker stove might be your best route. There are some fairly nice looking coal stokers on the market, I know some have been mentioned (actually, I think they've all been mentioned), but some I like are Keystoker, Harman, Leisure Line, and Alaska. All of these companies have websites, so you can check them out online.

Harman is also one of the few companies left that still makes a "batch-fed" coal stove, meaning you load it about twice a day (depending on your burn rate) and shake the grates at the same time. There are also batch fed furnaces and boilers, as well as stoker furnaces and boilers. Really the choices are endless in terms of stoves and most are very high quality. Take a good hard look at the Harman boilers, stokers and batch fed stoves. They represent very hight quality units and you wouldn't be disappointed in their performance.

Also, don't forget to consider the storage of coal. A house such as yours will probably take about 3 tons of coal to heat for the winter, of course depending on a huge range of variables. Automatic stoker stoves almost always run on rice coal, whereas batch fed stoves usually run on Chestnut or Stove coal, although some gravity fed batch fed stoves exclusively use pea coal.

You can either buy coal bulk or bagged, although the largest monetary savings almost always comes from bulk coal. If you decide to build an outdoor coal bin, you'll need about a 4'x4'x8' bin (meaning about 128 cu. ft. of storage space) to hold three tons.

 

[Hogwildz]

Forgive me if this was already mentioned....
If you go with coal, keep in mind coal is more "dirty" so to speak.
My parents had a coal furnace/boiler and yes coal is fairly cheap. not as cheap as it used to be, but still cheaper than gas & oil.
Back to the dirty part.
If you go with hot water baseboard boiler you will be fine. Bit running the plumbing for heat pipes etc will be expensive. If you go with a coal furnace or stove, you will then possibly be dealing with coal dust & ash throughout your house. My parents used to use a couple ducts run from the coal furnace, just let the natural rise of heat heat their 1st story above the basement. And also had a boiler attachment for hot water heat & showers etc. The dust was not only in the basement, but all over the house.
Something to consider if not feeling very green friendly, might want to think of health conscious. I can only speak of what i saw there. My family up here has always all used coal. My aunt & uncle use a boiler with hot water baseboard heat, house stays clean for most part, basement is only good to store things in, as the coal dust is everywhere. I guess a boiler in basement is wat to go. But the cost of piping, running the pipes etc, will not be cheap.
Good luck.

 

[FireJumper]

Just to put my 2 cents in........Personally I don't think it matters what you burn (wood or coal). You still need to deal with ash. Depending on how much you burn depends on how much ash you need to deal with. And Corie is correct, because of where you live, it would be more beneficial for you to go with a coal stove. For the price you pay (unless you get your wood for free), it burns longer than wood and has a higher BTU rating per pound.

 

[ErinMarie]

What type of oil heat???? Hot air furnace? Hot water hydronic (baseboard) heat??? Coal/wood fired add on untis are available to tie into your existing system.

We have hot-water baseboard heat throughout our house.

[quote author="Eric Johnson]My wife seems to think a $20 gas bill in February is pretty romantic.[/quote]

I would agree with your wife!! hahaha

How much do you value your life and safety, or for that matter your familly members? Is it worth compromising to gain heat flow from a stove?

This is the real question you should be answering before curring holes in floors and ceilings into bedroom sleeping areas. In doing so,, you just eliminated the natural containment barriers they provide and created an expressway to disaster.

Holy cow, no way - I never would have even thought of cutting holes to make registers, but the person at the stove shop brought it up. She said she & her husband cut a hole in their wall (not ceiling/floor - just room/room on the same floor - though not that it makes a difference). Anyway - NO FLOOR CUTTING FOR ERIN MARIE! THANK YOU for stopping me.

Hi ErinMarie and welcome to the forum.


Also, don't forget to consider the storage of coal. A house such as yours will probably take about 3 tons of coal to heat for the winter, of course depending on a huge range of variables. Automatic stoker stoves almost always run on rice coal, whereas batch fed stoves usually run on Chestnut or Stove coal, although some gravity fed batch fed stoves exclusively use pea coal.

You can either buy coal bulk or bagged, although the largest monetary savings almost always comes from bulk coal. If you decide to build an outdoor coal bin, you'll need about a 4'x4'x8' bin (meaning about 128 cu. ft. of storage space) to hold three tons.

Thanks for your help -- I was having a hard time visualizing how much space a ton (or multiple tons) of coal would take up.

If you go with coal, keep in mind coal is more "dirty" so to speak.
If you go with hot water baseboard boiler you will be fine. Bit running the plumbing for heat pipes etc will be expensive.

We have the hot water baseboard, but my husband doesn't want to replace our oil boiler with a coal one as our only source of heat. But from what I gather from the replies, we could get some kind of add-on boiler? I'll have to research that further.

If you go with a coal furnace or stove, you will then possibly be dealing with coal dust & ash throughout your house. Good luck.

Soo....a coal stove in the living room would not be smart, based on the dirt/dust/ash it generates?

Thanks again to everyone for helping this new stove girl out. It's been most beneficial and I appreciate it very much.

 

[wg_bent]

My parents had two coal stoves at one point, one was a lot dustier than the other, but I believe the newer stoves have better designs that are better.

Dust will never be eliminated, even with a stoker. a little spritzer bottle helps a lot.

If it's the right stove... I'd do a coal stove. (Good grief I can't believe I just said that... coal is sooo not green!)
Ed Bagley would shoot me.