Frustrating night - (Update)

[daveswoodhauler]

Ok, took off the air cleaner...looked very good.
Sprayed some carb cleaner into the intake, set to choke, and pulled cord.
Runs at full choke (I'm guessing as its using the carb cleaner as fuel)
If I take off choke, engine dies. Going back out...check the bowl next?

 

[Jags]

Ok, took off the air cleaner...looked very good.
Sprayed some carb cleaner into the intake, set to choke, and pulled cord.
Runs at full choke (I'm guessing as its using the carb cleaner as fuel)
If I take off choke, engine dies. Going back out...check the bowl next?

Yep, drop the bowl off and clean well.

By the way this proves fuel, in some manner, is your problem.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Ok, took off the air cleaner...looked very good.
Sprayed some carb cleaner into the intake, set to choke, and pulled cord.
Runs at full choke (I'm guessing as its using the carb cleaner as fuel)
If I take off choke, engine dies. Going back out...check the bowl next?

How long will it run with the choke on?

We need to figure out if it's just burning up what you throw down the throat (as in, the bowl is empty) or the mixture is screwed up.

 

[smokinj]

Ok, took off the air cleaner...looked very good.
Sprayed some carb cleaner into the intake, set to choke, and pulled cord.
Runs at full choke (I'm guessing as its using the carb cleaner as fuel)
If I take off choke, engine dies. Going back out...check the bowl next?

Yep, drop the bowl off and clean well.

By the way this proves fuel, in some manner, is your problem.

Yep yep unless there is a Fuel Solenoid.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Dave?? Come in Dave?!?

I'm thinking Dave's either having something really, REALY good for lunch, or . . .

He's dropped an itty bitty part and is too embarassed to admit it . . .

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Ok, working on it on my lunch. Did not drain the tank yet, as I wanted to see if fuel was making it to the carb.
With the air cleaner off, I sprayed some carb cleaner in and it would start and run, but only on full choke...as soon as I moved it one click to run from choke, would sputter and die.
Ok, took of the bowl. And the bowl had gas in it....or...not sure if it was gas, or the carb cleaner i sprayed in it.
So, anyway, dumped out the bowl and cleaned the bowl only with carb cleaner.
So, this spring popped off, and the float thing dropped down as well.....what a pain it was to get it back on, lots of finagling.
I didn't spray anything into the carb from the opening from the bowl, just tried to put the bowl and float back on and I think I got everything lined up right.
Started it back up, and for a few times it would only run on full choke...but I did have the air cleaner still off.
Put the air cleaner back on, and started it up....switched the choke off and it sputtered a little bit, but now is running on "run" vs choke.
Got my crappy electric leaf blower out, and plugged it an extension cord to the gen.....well, its been running for about 5 minutes now....well,, make that 7 minute now.
I'll be back after some more tests,.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Forgot to put some more tests in my earlier post.
Not knowing if it was the carb cleaner just burning up, I shut off the fuel line and just let it run out...hope this was ok.
Ok, then I turned the fuel line back on, and waited 5 second or so each time. First couple times it would only run with carb cleaner, but on the third time maybe I shut off the fuel line and let the engine stop. Then, just opened the fuel line, and pulled...it did start....also, the choke was still set to run, so now when I push back to choke it dies like it should.....switch back to run, and now had been running for 10 minutes. Going to head out, shut it down for 5 or so, and then try to start with no choke.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Dave?? Come in Dave?!?

I'm thinking Dave's either having something really, REALY good for lunch, or . . .

He's dropped an itty bitty part and is too embarassed to admit it . . .

Well, if you meant that little bitty spring that popped off and rolled across the driveway and into the snow....then yes, lol.

Also, When I had the bowl off, and opened the fuel line, the fuel came out pretty slowly....but then again, the float mechanism was still on, so I really couldn't see the flow rate. Mrs's is calling me "smelly" now.

Back to the testing...
Ok, just switched the fuel line to "off" and let it die out, then shut switch off as well.
Waited a few minutes, turned on, opened fuel line, choke was set to run. Gave a medium pull of the cord, and is running like a champ.
been running for about 10 minutes now.
Seeing that my tank on my gen has about 4 gallons in it, should I still drain and refill with new gas?

 

[smokinj]

Dave?? Come in Dave?!?

I'm thinking Dave's either having something really, REALY good for lunch, or . . .

He's dropped an itty bitty part and is too embarassed to admit it . . .

Well, if you meant that little bitty spring that popped off and rolled across the driveway and into the snow....then yes, lol.

Also, When I had the bowl off, and opened the fuel line, the fuel came out pretty slowly....but then again, the float mechanism was still on, so I really couldn't see the flow rate. Mrs's is calling me "smelly" now.

Back to the testing...
Ok, just switched the fuel line to "off" and let it die out, then shut switch off as well.
Waited a few minutes, turned on, opened fuel line, choke was set to run. Gave a medium pull of the cord, and is running like a champ.
been running for about 10 minutes now.
Seeing that my tank on my gen has about 4 gallons in it, should I still drain and refill with new gas?

Wow, thats cool. after all that I would dump it.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Three things you need to do Dave . . .

1)Dump the gas, get all new gas with StarTron in it

2)Replace the fuel filter

3)Come get my ZZR1200 running :shut:

 

[Jags]

Whooo HOOO! I love it when a plan comes together.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Three things you need to do Dave . . .

1)Dump the gas, get all new gas with StarTron in it

2)Replace the fuel filter

3)Come get my ZZR1200 running :shut:

Is star tron like stabil? (I picked up some stabil that is good for 15 gallons)

Can I put the gas in my car....(2002 subaru Forester...hate to just dump gas, but figured I'd ask)

been lookin over tha manual, and can't find the fuel filter...guessin that its in the tank somewhere perhaps near where the feed line is attached that goes to the carb...gotta check this later.

Going to let it sit for a few hours and go out and try it again. Do all you guys shut off the fuel flow and then just let the engine run out? I would think that this is a good approach to take.

 

[maple1]

Hmm, sounds like that guy who replied first was onto something.

I would put the gas in the car - should burn it OK. If it was me here, I'd put some ISO in it first, in case there's some water in it.

I've found it's usually less than a 50% chance that you can get a carb ungunked & running right without removing the jets & manually cleaning them out - sounds like you are on the lucky side, or I'm on the unlucky side.

Couple of notes : anything you spray into the air intake will not end up in the float bowl, it will go right into the engine - so it usually doesn't do much good in cleaning the carb, but might work for getting it running & diagnosing. There might not be a typical fuel filter, there might only be a screen on the carb inlet where the gas line hooks on. And finally, I would get it running, turn the gas off, let it run itself out, then pull the gas line off and sitck it into a gas jug and turn the gas back on to drain the tank. Loosen the drain screw on the bottom of the carb to make extra sure there is nothing in there. Always try to store the generator with no fuel in it at all, or at least very little in the tank and NONE in the carb.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

If it was only running okay with the choke on, that's classic crud in the carb. I'll bet that when you jostled the generator taking it from home to your friends some dirt got dislodged from somewhere and found it's way into the carb. If it's running off and on, I'd hit it with a dose of Techron or other good carb cleaner and run it.....I've had good luck going this route to avoid dismantling carbs if I can help it.

Sorry Maple, but this Dude -or Duddette- gets the award for the first correct WAG.

WTG

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Hmm, sounds like that guy who replied first was onto something.

I would put the gas in the car - should burn it OK. If it was me here, I'd put some ISO in it first, in case there's some water in it.

I've found it's usually less than a 50% chance that you can get a carb ungunked & running right without removing the jets & manually cleaning them out - sounds like you are on the lucky side, or I'm on the unlucky side.

Couple of notes : anything you spray into the air intake will not end up in the float bowl, it will go right into the engine - so it usually doesn't do much good in cleaning the carb, but might work for getting it running & diagnosing. There might not be a typical fuel filter, there might only be a screen on the carb inlet where the gas line hooks on. And finally, I would get it running, turn the gas off, let it run itself out, then pull the gas line off and sitck it into a gas jug and turn the gas back on to drain the tank. Loosen the drain screw on the bottom of the carb to make extra sure there is nothing in there. Always try to store the generator with no fuel in it at all, or at least very little in the tank and NONE in the carb.

All good stuff...thanks Maple.
I'm going to work on it some more tomorrow....draining the fuel/new fuel, etc...
Cause I am a glutton for punishment , what would be the diagnosis of when I had it running at first, but it would only run on full choke? (Seems like full choke means no/less air going into the carb/engine? I had it running for like 3-4 minutes on full choke, and then would die out if I moved the choke even the smallist amount to the left.
Again, thanks.

 

[bluedogz]

[quote author="daveswoodhauler" date="1320364747] (Seems like full choke means no/less air going into the carb/engine? I had it running for like 3-4 minutes on full choke, and then would die out if I moved the choke even the smallist amount to the left.
Again, thanks.[/quote]

Actually, full choke means more fuel going into the cylinder, not less air. Setting the choke opens another valve that allows extra gas in, that's all. So, from a ratio perspective, I guess, that's less air.

The float valve (the one under that spring thingy) is the main fuel source. The choke valve is generally on a completely separate circuit. So, gunk in/around the float can jam you up and starve the bowl of fuel, but opening the choke opens the "back door" to let more gas in.

That's why I suggested the basics: check air, fire, fuel, compression. Easiest that way.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Gas:Air are like Vermouth:Gin

if you had to choke it, it was getting too much air (vacume leak) or not enough gas (Low float level, dirt in a passage)

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

We going for a longest post thing here, or what?

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Gas:Air are like Vermouth:Gin

if you had to choke it, it was getting too much air (vacume leak) or not enough gas (Low float level, dirt in a passage)

Got it, one day I will get it. No longest post try....I am just one that really doesn't learn if I don't understand the mechanics of stuff.
This is why my wife helps the kids with thier homework. Maybe I should relabel the post "If your generator wont run, check here first"

 

[mecreature]

sure like that yellow cart.. have one myself..

us stabil 100% of the time from now on. And run frequently. I use marine stabil or seafoam...

bad gas and gunk will be a thing of the past....


JMO

 

[MasterMech]

Ok, working on it on my lunch. Did not drain the tank yet, as I wanted to see if fuel was making it to the carb.
With the air cleaner off, I sprayed some carb cleaner in and it would start and run, but only on full choke...as soon as I moved it one click to run from choke, would sputter and die.
Ok, took of the bowl. And the bowl had gas in it....or...not sure if it was gas, or the carb cleaner i sprayed in it.
So, anyway, dumped out the bowl and cleaned the bowl only with carb cleaner.
So, this spring popped off, and the float thing dropped down as well.....what a pain it was to get it back on, lots of finagling.
I didn't spray anything into the carb from the opening from the bowl, just tried to put the bowl and float back on and I think I got everything lined up right.
Started it back up, and for a few times it would only run on full choke...but I did have the air cleaner still off.
Put the air cleaner back on, and started it up....switched the choke off and it sputtered a little bit, but now is running on "run" vs choke.
Got my crappy electric leaf blower out, and plugged it an extension cord to the gen.....well, its been running for about 5 minutes now....well,, make that 7 minute now.
I'll be back after some more tests,.

This sounds like water in the fuel. Did I miss the carb cleaning? I didn't see where he blew carb clean through the jets/idle orifices. Dumping the bowl gets rid of the water depending on how much was in the tank to begin with. A little more finds it's way into the carb and then the problem repeated, got better, repeats, and clears. Choking it pull more liquid from the carb and the engine then runs on the water/fuel mix and one of 2 things happens. More water from the tank enters the bowl and stalls the engine or the engine draws off the water and the incoming fuel slowly absorbs the remainder (a benefit of having ethanol in the fuel already) and that is burnt off.

Dump the tank of fuel Dave and make sure it's empty, not just drained via the fuel outlet. Water is denser than gas and so it always resides in the very bottom of the tank/bowl.

 

[ISeeDeadBTUs]

Actually. . .anytime ya dump gas, dump it into a glass container so you can see whats actually in your gas. As MM points out, the gas will float on the water. The dirt will settle on the bottom.

 

[daveswoodhauler]

Thanks MM and Jimbo. All this is making more sense to me now...the water is denser than the fuel, so the water gets to the carb first.
Going to drain everything over the weekend, and do the same on my lawn mower.
Again, thanks for the help as you guys got it running, taught me something, and saved me some cash.