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Frustrating night - (Update)

Post in 'The Gear' started by daveswoodhauler, Nov 2, 2011.

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  1. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    VERY fine piece of advice right there!! 'Specially when yer saying you're not that comfortable with the operation anyway Dave!

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  2. dave11

    dave11 Minister of Fire

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    In my experience, when a fairly new small engine suddenly won't start or run, the problem is usually something straightforward. If you haven't been running it with an old or dirty fuel filter, its not likely you're going to get much crud in the fuel lines or carb, though I'm not saying it's impossible. A generator is not out in the field like a saw or mower, and the gas you put in it likely is pretty clean. So to say that you had dirty gas to start with, and that it got through the filter to cause this trouble, seems unlikely (but not impossible). That's not to say you don't have some other problem with the carb.

    Check for spark or replace the plug.

    Change the fuel filter.

    Change the air filter if it looks dirty.

    Check for obstructions in both the air intake and the exhaust.

    Loosen the gas cap.

    If I were you, I wouldn't take anything apart all this was done, and nothing improved.
  3. daveswoodhauler

    daveswoodhauler Minister of Fire

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    LOl, I know what not to use for spray (i.e I know to get carb cleaner) I was asking what parts to spray once I have the bowl off. (I see BTU answered some of this...just want to know if there is any part inside the carb once I get the bowl off that I do not spray)

    The backfeed wiring was done with the cop on the phone with his electrician....I know how to splice wires, lol
  4. dave11

    dave11 Minister of Fire

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    The best way to check for spark is with a spark tester, which you can buy pretty cheaply at the auto parts store.

    You can also do it holding the plug in INSULATED plies, but you run the risk of a painful but non-lethal shock if you screw up.

    If you don't want to buy a spark tester, just buy a new plug and put it in.
  5. daveswoodhauler

    daveswoodhauler Minister of Fire

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    Idiot alert....I know. I know...call me bdad. Ok, I was under the impression that carb cleaner is something that is sprayed into the carb...so I am an idiot I guess. Do you just run the carb cleaner in the tank? with gas, without gas? (I was planning on draining all the fuel via taking off the fuel line on the bottom of the tank. (Reason I thoughyt I was spraying someing in the carb is because the cop has the same exact generator, and he said that was his problem)
  6. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    Question:
    Answer:
    And don't get all wound up about using some special insulated pliers. Use your bare hand on the plug wire. If you ground the spark plug well, but still get shocked through the insulation of the plug wire, then the plug wire is crap and/or the plug isn't gapped correctly.

    And look . . .surprise surprise, I ain't no doctor. I been zapped many times and no real bad effects. But if you got a pacemaker or something, this may not be a good test for you to perform. Have the guy who you are trying to help hold the plug. ESPECIALLY if his wife is cute. ;-)
  7. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    The bowl you speak of Dave, will not have to be taken off to get to the carb. The bowl is basically a small reservoir of gas that the carb takes gas from. You generally should not have to remove the bowl to get at the carb. And, as others have said -and especially where you are not comfortable attempting to catch check balls and needles and seats, et when they fall out- try to avoid dismantling the carb. That really should be done in a warm, well lit shop with a clean bench.
  8. backpack09

    backpack09 Minister of Fire

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    I usually just pop the wire off the plug and hold it near the plug to see if there is spark. This way there is no fuel being being sprayed out the spark plug hole near a spark...
  9. daveswoodhauler

    daveswoodhauler Minister of Fire

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    Ok, got it. Thanks for all the help. Going to be online this weekend when I attempt this lol ?
    (The cop that has the same gen as me told me the same exact thing happened to him 2 weeks ago....he just removed the bowl and cleaned it out...thats why I thought that the bowl would be access to the carb....I am not going to dismantle/open the carb..if I can't get it running with all the help from you guys I'll just bring it to the repair shop)
    Thanks again.
  10. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    We want to know if the spark plug is sparking, not if we are getting spark to the plug . . .

    If the spark plug, removed from the combustion chamber by a few inches, ignites fuel mixture blowing out of the combustion chamber through the spark plug hole (no longer under compression), then someone put jet fuel or ether in the tank. . . in which case, no amount of advice found on Hearth.com is gonna save that person's sorry azz :smirk:
  11. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    When the cop is on duty . . . go switch out generators with him :p
  12. fprintf

    fprintf Member

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    My guess is on aged gas. Unlike wood, gasoline does not improve with age. If gasoline stablizer was not mixed with the fuel before storage then it is possible that no amount of fiddling will get this thing to run. I agree with ISeeDeadBTUs that a methodical approach is best to avoid chasing ghosts. But I guess the following will work:

    1. Remove all existing fuel from the unit.
    2. Add new fresh gasoline that you bought from the gas station today into a fuel can
    3. Add 1 ounce of Sta-Bil or other fuel stabilizer
    4. Take the air filter off, and spray carb cleaner (Gumout is a fine brand) into the carb openings
    5. Maybe wiggle the choke on and off a few times
    6. Check the fuel switch and ensure it is on
    7. Add your fresh fuel into the gas tank
    8. Prime the engine if there is a priming bulb (a soft pad you press on to bring fuel to the engine)
    9. Turn the unit on
    10. Pull the starting cord or press the button to get the electric starter running

    The last few times I have had non operating engines it has been entirely my fault putting it away with fuel still in the carb. A relatively quick shot of carb cleaner or brake cleaner was all it took, and I learned my lesson and put my engines away after running them dry *and* put gas stabilizer in the fuel.
  13. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    Since you're not going to diagnose it till this w/e, I'll throw my WAG into the ring too. (the previous ones about fuel are prolly the correct ones)

    Does anyone know what these units have for a fuse or a fuseable link? I'm wondering about the stellar job the electrician/cop/telephone did. Seems like that may be when it started running for only short bursts. But again, the more probable is that moving the genny around stirred up some dirt and put it where it shouldn't be.

    Another tric to cleaning out the carb . . . assuming this is mlti cylindered . . . switch the order on the plug wires. This will cause a pretty good backfire, which will blow back through the carb (and out to your face if you stand there looking down the venturi :zip: ) which may blow the dirt back out the way it came.
  14. daveswoodhauler

    daveswoodhauler Minister of Fire

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    Thanks Much. On item 4 above, by removing the air cleaner, this will give me acess to the carb? (I am gueessing that the air gets pulled into the carb through the air cleaner...so I am spraying the clearner through the air filter with the filter removed of course)
  15. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    If the dirt is between the needle and seat (typical syptoms would be flooding) spraying down the throat will not help. But it's still worth a shot.

    LOL, by the time you get this thing running, the grid will be back up :coolsmirk:
  16. Highbeam

    Highbeam Minister of Fire

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    Wow. I've had many small engines fail and removing the carb bowl is very easy to do and provides access to almost every possible clogging point. Notice that the can of carb cleaner comes with a small tube to direct a blast into a small area. You will point that tube into the jets and orifices that will become visible when you remove the bowl. This is to blow the crud out of the jets and allow fuel to flow. When you remove the bowl you will want to dump out the gas and clean out any grit from the bottom of the bowl. With the bowl off you will also notice a hangy thing, the float. Make sure the float moves up and down. While it is hanging down turn on the fuel supply to verify that lots of fuel comes pouring into the bowl from the tank. This check will eliminate all of the chances of a plugged fuel filter or bad gas cap.

    Put the bowl back on and turn on the gas. Check for leaks. This is actually pretty routine maintenance and never a bad idea.

    Try and start it. Nothing? Then move on to sparkalation.

    Remove the plug and check that it looks like a new plug with no funk where the spark should be. Then check for spark but don't get zapped, it's a bit painful.
  17. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    I would check ground wire and or coil! On off switch. ;-)
  18. daveswoodhauler

    daveswoodhauler Minister of Fire

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  19. daveswoodhauler

    daveswoodhauler Minister of Fire

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    Was thinking the same thing...posted a link of the manual, but I don't see any fuse/link that could have tripped...might have missed it though.
  20. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    Fellas, this thread has tons of good stuff in it, but my bet is that Dave's head is spinning with all this info.

    I can help with one small test. Very quickly spray a short burst of starting fluid in the throat of the carb. Pull to start (up to 3 pulls). If it fires AT ALL. Stop. You have a fuel issue. If it FAILS to fire, you have an electrical issue. This will tell you which end of the spectrum to focus on.

    I have dollars to doughnuts that the carb needs to be cleaned.
  21. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    I will take that bet.....50/50 always a good bet. lol
  22. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    Yer gonna loose this one Jay. :) Ran fine at home. Stuffed into vehicle and got bounced around moving sediment where it shouldn't be and plugged the carb. Let me make a call to my booky. :coolsmile:

    I'll even go further. Ran for 20 seconds or 30 or whatever because it ran on the fuel that was already in the bowl. Once depleted, no worky worky.

    My simple test will confirm - spark or fuel.
  23. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    I thought the same thing on my jd running fine and cough a couple times and went down. "Fuel Solenoid" Electric problem. Dirty fuel gets a bad name and everyone chases it....Carbs just are not that smart.
    Kinda did the same test and she fired. Took me a few on this one.
  24. Jags

    Jags Moderate Moderator Staff Member

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    That is why I suggest to test first. Saves alot of time chasing phantom problems.
  25. smokinj

    smokinj Minister of Fire

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    Oh I am with you there but I did the same thing and it fired...lol took a few on that one. :cheese:
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