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Harman manual low-burn.

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by TheMightyMoe, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. TheMightyMoe

    TheMightyMoe Minister of Fire

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    Fairbanks, Alaska.
    So from my understanding in MANUAL ROOM TEMP mode, when the stove is idle, it just tries to maintain the ESP at a certain temperature.

    I was trying to run manual mode for a couple weeks, however, my pellet usage was noticeably higher, even on days that were 10-20 degrees warmer. (Noticeable being a half bag+)

    I believe the reason why is... My OAK...

    I think the OAK pulling in -20 to -40 degree air is causing the stove to feed pellets constantly, to try and maintain the idle temperature. This results in the stove constantly cooling...

    In auto mode, the above is not a problem, since the stove will distribute heat until the ESP temperature drops, and then it shut downs.

    Any thoughts?

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  2. subsailor

    subsailor Minister of Fire

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    Another Harman owner has indicated to me thay they seem to use more pellets in room/manual vs room/auto as well. I think you're right about the cause being the air brought in through the OAK. It's going to take a lot of energy to heat that air up. My only question is with the outside temps you're facing up there, does your stove ever try to shut down when you're running in room/auto?
  3. Jefflitzy

    Jefflitzy Member

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    Loc:
    The other province of Ontario.
    I have found that in constant cold temp -20 C and more the OAK causes more problems than they solve. I am also a Harman Dealer and rarely install them with outside air in our area where I have seen outside air kits freeze solid from cold temps -40 and colder and then stove not getting any air. In Alaska I would say get rid of the outside air unless required by code.
    kinsmanstoves likes this.
  4. TheMightyMoe

    TheMightyMoe Minister of Fire

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    My oak is about 2 1/2 feet long, the first half freezes solid on the outside. I did take it off once to inspect it, and the inside was clear. I have no issues with the stove, other then what is mentioned above. My ash does clump a bit sometimes, but it is solid ash. I really want/like the oak because cold air isn't pulled through the doors/garage, in which case they actually can freeze closed.
  5. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

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    I find I use slightly more pellets in manual then auto. House stays more of a consistent temp when I run in manual though because I use a 1 degree swing when in manual and a 3 degree swing when in auto.

    My outside air enters the stove at a temp that is above room temp.
  6. subsailor

    subsailor Minister of Fire

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    My understanding is the stove only uses the ESP probe when it's in Stove Temp mode. When in Room Temp mode, it runs off the probe.
  7. Harman Lover 007

    Harman Lover 007 Minister of Fire

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    You will definitely use more pellets in RT manual. The only time I use RT manual is when it is very cold out and even then if I am in RT auto, the stove never shuts down because the swing temp is reached.
  8. Harman Lover 007

    Harman Lover 007 Minister of Fire

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    I don't believe that is true at all....The ESP is the backbone of the Harman burning system. In either mode, the ESP senses the exhaust temp and communicates with the CB. For example, when starting up the stove from cold how does the igniter know when to shut off and then the distribution fan to come on? Answer...exhaust temp signal sent from the ESP.
  9. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

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    007 - What swing do you use in rt auto?
  10. Lousyweather

    Lousyweather Guest

    yup....none of this is new info....very much depends on outside air temp....guys like Jefflitzy who live in very cold climes often dont reccomend the outside air kit for this very reason...causes screwy running. I run mine in room temp mode all the time, except when it gets really cold (0 degrees is the high), in which case, i find the constant heat of stove temp does a better job of heating my place. yes, I do have outside air
  11. Harman Lover 007

    Harman Lover 007 Minister of Fire

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    Sorry, didn't mean to lead you astray there. I haven't jumped on the Skytech yet. What ever the swing temp is in auto/RT on the CB is what I meant. I have no idea what it is, but there must be one.
  12. mepellet

    mepellet Minister of Fire

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    Oh ok. I'll try leaving it in auto with a 1 degree swing tomorrow when I have time to watch its behavior. I use 3 degrees now just so it doesn't cycle as much.
  13. Hoot23

    Hoot23 Minister of Fire

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    I'm just opposite. I like it in room/manual. I don't have a t-stat set up so the the stove cycles on off constantly. And for me I think I burn less pellets in manual.
  14. Harman Lover 007

    Harman Lover 007 Minister of Fire

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    If you are in RT manual, your stove will never cycle off, it just goes down to low burn until it calls for more heat. You will use MORE pellets this way.
  15. TheMightyMoe

    TheMightyMoe Minister of Fire

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    Was hoping to find people who have seen/experienced my situation.

    BUT

    Harman is always using ESP, but in stove temperature mode, it only uses the ESP. In room temperature mode it uses the ESP and the room thermistor.

    In GENERAL you will use more pellets in MANUAL vs AUTO because the stove is always idling, however, manual is less wear and tear on the Igniter. There is no reason for AUTO to use more pellets then MANUAL.

    In my case however, I use a BUTT load more in manual instead of a little more, due to the reasons suggested in first post. My stove is calling for heat 3/4+ the time and I should not have used as many extra pellets as I was, just by running in manual.


    -Also Sailor if your question was in regard to the stove actually turning off due to meeting heat demand, it never fully has the coals/embers go out before it has a call for heat, so the fire re-ignites quite quickly. This is why I thought manual mode would be fine, but manual just tears through the pellets.
  16. Bioburner

    Bioburner Minister of Fire

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    Moe, I use more pellets in manual mode because of the crosslink taking some heat out of the stove trying to maintain the exaust. I used the stove without the crosslink and would use more pellets in manual because the stove trying to stay lit. Using the stove in room auto with the crosslink makes a very large temp swing upstairs and trying to make up the swing in mild weather just wears on the ignition system. 4 below now and have switched to room auto as the house is taking a lot of btus and will not need to shut down for the foreseeable future. I like the system as I got up with the house in the upper 60s and only used 25lbs in 12 hours and got hot water.
  17. TheMightyMoe

    TheMightyMoe Minister of Fire

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    Same idea kind of, cross link takes heat, where as I am just introducing extreme cold. I just think manual mode is a feature my stove doesn't have at this point.
  18. AkOriginal

    AkOriginal New Member

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    I'm in the fairbanks area as well Moe with the same setup as you Oak and all. I have always run my stove in room temp/manual and at 45 to 50 below I eat through about 3 bags a day heating 1300 square feet to about 70 degrees. Now I'm curious to see if I can save half a bag by switching to auto. How much are you burning through a day btw?
  19. TheMightyMoe

    TheMightyMoe Minister of Fire

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    I've been burning through 2 - 2.5 bags a day during the cold spell we been having, I was hitting 3 bags when I had it in manual.

    House is 1600, garage is 300, I heat the living room to 80 degrees in room temp, and it keeps the rest the house just right. 4+ Star rating per energy audit.
  20. iron stove

    iron stove Feeling the Heat

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    Im fasinated by you guys in Alaska at -40 to -50 ! So you warmed up to negative teens today. What kind of insuating do your homes have ?
  21. boosted3g

    boosted3g Feeling the Heat

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    Your not kidding. It hit low 20s here and put down 2 inches of snow and i think its getting cold out. I have the downstairs set at 83 and the upstairs at 77 all done by room temp auto.
  22. TheMightyMoe

    TheMightyMoe Minister of Fire

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    It's a scorching hot christmas at 5*, the end must just be late!

    Fiber glass R19 walls, R38 basement, R60 attic, sealed pretty tight.
  23. Bioburner

    Bioburner Minister of Fire

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    Down to -11 this morning at the bottom of the valley. Coldest X-mas in 12 years
  24. DOLLARBILL

    DOLLARBILL Member

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    Ive tried both ways and for me the little extra it uses, Harman XXV, I find that the rooms seem to stay heated more even ! But thats just me !
  25. chuckster

    chuckster Burning Hunk

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    Sussex County NJ
    I run my XXV in room temp manual mainly just to save the ignitor. I burn about a ton a month. Probably just a little less than that.

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