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  1. Treemoss

    Treemoss Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2013
    Messages:
    127
    Loc:
    LI NY
    Hello everyone, I just joined so I might have alot of questions. I am new to wood-burning and woodstoves. I have a split level house that is about 1200 ft.². It was built in the 50s and is not that airtight. I am sort of on a budget so I am Going to Get the Napoleon 1450 independent stove. But I see this is good for 800 to over 2000 ft.² is this stove overkill for my house. Also Is this stove a good stove. Because of the size of the stove will I be burning it low and building up more creosote. Also the vent pipe will be going outside out of the wall with Double insulated stainless steel. It has 2 90° elbows and 2 30° offsets Passed the Gutter peak for about 20 feet total Length. It only has 14 feet vertical Length. Is this good enough or will I have draft problems. Also will there be a lot of creosote Buildup in the pipe Because of all the offsets and elbows. I will be burning 100% seasoned wood oak Mostly. Any information will be helpful information since I am very new to wood-burning and wood-burning stoves thank you.

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  2. My Oslo heats my home

    My Oslo heats my home Minister of Fire

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    I think the size of the stove will be fine, your better to have a larger stove than undersized. My question is the route the smoke and gasses will take to get out. The vertical seems kind of short and if drafting with the 90's and offsets become an issue you will get some buildup for sure. Assuming the oak wood supply you talk about is dry, it will create of a lot of heat for you, that may help out with any creosote buildup.
    WellSeasoned likes this.
  3. PapaDave

    PapaDave Minister of Fire

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    5,740
    Loc:
    Northern MI - in the mitten
    First Treemoss, welcome to the Hearth.
    Now, just to clarify, when was the oak cut, split, and stacked? Around here, Oak takes a good 2 years or more in ideal conditions to dry well.
    You can burn it before that, but it won't be optimal. I won't do it anymore, what a PITA.
    The 90's subtract a few feet from your overall height. Remember to follow the 10'-3'-2' rule. Or is it the 3'-10'-2' rule. Hmmm
    Nice looking stove, and should be a good match for the house. Possibly a bit small if the house is leaky, but seal it up and insulate, and you'll be gooder to go.
    Pics will help us help you.
    Besides, pics, or it didn't happen. It's our motto.....well, one of 'em.
    NortheastAl and WellSeasoned like this.
  4. Grisu

    Grisu Minister of Fire

    Joined:
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    2,761
    Loc:
    Chittenden, VT
    Hello Treemoss, welcome to the forum! :)

    I will try to answer some of your questions. The advertised sqft ratings of stoves can be very misleading as they highly depend on the space that needs to be heated. For a 1300 sqft home, not that well insulated in your climate I would recommend a stove with at least a 2 cu ft firebox size up to about 2.5 cu ft. The Napoleon has 2.2 cu ft and should fit well with your needs. Two other budget stoves that would work well IMHO are the Drolet Escape 1800 or the Pacific Energy True North. For reviews you can use the forum search and also try the review section here: http://www.hearth.com/talk/link-forums/stove-reviews.35/

    Your chimney setup sounds a bit concerning. With two 90 degree elbows and almost a third of the total length horizontal versus vertical you may not get good draft. Any other option to run the chimney straight up? If not I would think about adding a few feet to it or whether the 90 degree elbows can be substituted by two 45 degree pieces.

    Last: Whether you will have creosote or not is mostly determined how well seasoned your wood is. It is not a problem to burn smaller loads in a larger stove as long as the wood is dry. How do you know your oak is seasoned? Did you have it split and stacked for a minimum of two years in your yard or do you rely on the word of the person who sold you the wood? The common experience here is that most firewood sellers do not sell really seasoned wood with a moisture content of less than 20 %. If you bought it I would get a moisture meter and check the moisture content.
    WellSeasoned likes this.
  5. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    27,815
    Loc:
    Michigan
    Welcome to the forum Treemoss.

    Where you live leads me to think perhaps you might be buying your wood. As others have stated, the wood could be your worst problem especially with it being oak. Around our area, we give oak 3 years after being split and stacked before we attempt to burn it. If you are indeed purchasing the wood, no doubt the wood seller has told you it is or has been "seasoned" well for a long time. My advice is to never believe it. You can check that out by doing searches on this forum and year after year we get the horror stories.

    It seems that most people, when they decide to start burning wood, will put most of their emphasis on installing the right stove but usually give little or even no thought about the fuel they will burn once the stove is installed. Please do not make this mistake or you may end up wishing you had not started burning wood and wonder if you can ever recoup your investment. Remember, if you put poor fuel in your vehicles, they will run poorly. The same goes for the fuel that goes into your wood stove. The difference is that you can call someone for an immediate fill up with oil or gas but that just does not happen when burning wood.

    On to the chimney. I believe the general theory is that for every 90 degree bend in the chimney or flue you can subtract about 2-3' from the height of your chimney. In other words, if you have only two 90 degree bends, you can subtract 4-6' from that 14' total height you have. In addition, when installing a chimney, one needs to give thought to how that chimney will be cleaned. Bends make the task much more difficult.

    While we are on the subject of cleaning chimneys and creosote, we highly suggest all new wood burners check the chimney monthly in their first couple years of burning. We also highly advise new wood burners against burning any oak. That is because although oak is indeed one of the best firewoods you can have, it also is the worst for giving up its moisture. That is why we give it 3 years to dry. Until such a time that we learn how to burn water, it is best to burn only dry wood. One must also learn the different qualities of the different types of wood you will be burning.

    Good luck to you.
  6. NortheastAl

    NortheastAl Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    676
    Loc:
    Putnam, NY
    Hi Treemoss. Welcome to the Hearth. Backwoods Savage gave you the most important element in wood burning. Dry wood is only when you know there is 20% or less moisture content. I don't think one out of one hundred wood dealers sell wood that dry. Their idea of seasoned pod in NY is that it was cut one year ago. In most cases it was left in log form until shortly before being old to you.

    You need to get a moisture meter. They can be had for as little as $30. Then you tke a piece of the wood you have and split one and check that fresh cut inside part for moisture content.

    However, all may not be lost. You can get kiln dried wood which you can mix with wetter wood to average out the moisture content. Kiln dried is about 8% moisture. You could also use Bio-Bricks or any other brand of compressed wood blocks. Just don't use the ones that are sawdust and wax. Use only 100% wood blocks with no filler, glue, wax or nothing else added. Mixing that with less than dry wood will make the burning experience that much better. Then, you can work in getting three years ahead in wood.

    Best of luck, ask questions, and happy burning.
    Backwoods Savage likes this.
  7. Sprinter

    Sprinter Minister of Fire

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2012
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    2,072
    Loc:
    SW Washington
    Who is going to do the installation? A good, certified, sweep/installer should be able to do whatever is necessary at your location to assure good operation. That's a lot of offsets for such a short vertical, but it can be handled.

    As has already been said, and will be said over and over here:), the wood supply is your greatest concern this late in the season. I'd practically guarantee that that wood will not be at the 20-25% moisture content necessary to prevent creosote and efficiency problems. The term "seasoned" has no real meaning. It's like a car being sold as "real cherry", and oak is notoriously slow to dry. Get a moisture meter and be sure of what you're getting. If you have the room, figure on using the oak in two or three years and get some faster drying species in the meantime. Most experienced folks store two or three years worth at a time.

    The stove sounds like a good match.
    Backwoods Savage and Trilifter7 like this.
  8. lumbering on

    lumbering on Feeling the Heat

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2012
    Messages:
    483
    Loc:
    New York
    Bad wood = frustrating first year burning

    Forget trying to get seasoned wood for this year on Long Island. Buy some now and set it aside for next year.

    I bought envi-blocks from this guy: http://thelogsplitter.com

    Delivers and is really nice and easy to deal with.
  9. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

    Joined:
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    49,872
    Loc:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    The Napoleon is a fine size for your house if it will be in a area that is open to the rest of the house. This is a good reliable stove, however it does need decent draft of it may perform poorly. Is there any possibility of taking the stove pipe straight up through the roof on the interior of the house. That perform better, would help drafting a lot, and it should cost a lot less too. Otherwise try to soften the exit from the stove by using a 45 elbow with a short diagonal run uphill to another 45 at the thimble.
  10. Treemoss

    Treemoss Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2013
    Messages:
    127
    Loc:
    LI NY
    Thank you guys for the Welcoming. My real concern is draft and creosote buildup in the elbows and offsets. I am just worried about running the stove almost closed for long burns and getting bad buildup. My wood is split 18 months ago of oak,maple and mulberry. I feel if I run the stove open more hotter it will be too hot for my square footage. I don't want to clean the pipe out every month. I will be burning for my Primary heat for my home. I cannot run the pipe straight out due to a dormer above the room. If you see the picture it would be a 90° elbow going through the wall through the brick to the outside. Then it would go another 3 feet horizontal pipe to a T that goes up 14 feet vertically. Then 2 30° offsets around the gutter and than a additional 4 foot vertical going to cap. The pipe will be about 14 feet away from the roof peak. Do you guys think this set up might be difficult with drafts.
    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
  11. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    This sounds like a bad plan. I don't like the horizontal run of class A at all. You want that thimble to be as short as possible. Go straight up through the room above and box around the pipe or figure out another location for the stove.
    Mitch Newton and firebroad like this.
  12. Treemoss

    Treemoss Member

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    Loc:
    LI NY
    Really you think it's a bad idea but maybe it might work but if you think it's going to be a problem I can always ask the installer. I would hate to look at a boxed out pipe upstairs in the middle of the room. The chimney sweep installer said he will raise the horizontal pipe a quarter inch for every foot. So it probably will be about three quarters to an inch rise is that significant enough for the draft. He also stated that it might take a little Longer to get the pipe heated up. But once it's going it will be fine. He says. What about a outside air kit with that help me with the draft.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
  13. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    OK, I see what your concern is with the room above now. I think the odds of it working well (as proposed) are very slim. The horiz. run looks like it will be more like 4ft. This is really going to hurt draft. With an interior 90 elbow and a relatively short stack this sounds like a creosote factory. I am also not sure it would be code legal traversing an open porch. Supporting it would be a challenge and it would look like something out of the backwoods. Before deciding, be open minded and think about rearranging the layout of the stove room so that the stove can placed on an outside wall. That will get the pipe out of the middle of the room if you go straight up, or it will afford the option to have a short exterior thimble to a chimney that goes straight up.
    PapaDave likes this.
  14. Hogwildz

    Hogwildz Minister of Fire

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    Next to nuke plant Berwick, PA.
    BG has legit concern. 2 90's and a couple 30's or whatever you use for offsets is too many bends.
    May work, but most likely your draft is going to be poor, and you will be cleaning it monthly or worse.
    If it was me, I would be looking for somewhere else to put the stove that gave me a straight shot up and out.
    Even if you did 2-45's inside and straight up to get near a corner or closet to be boxed out, would be better than all that going on outside and then going around the gutter.
    That horizontal run outside could build up lots of creosote.
    Without a strong draft, you may not be able to run the stove as low on air as you are planning.
    Where the air leaver is set depends on how much draft the stack has.
  15. Treemoss

    Treemoss Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    LI NY
    True guys, I think I better see if I have other options I can do. I will have to plan out something that might be better than what I have. But moving the stove really is no option. It's in the middle floor of my split-level which is perfect to heat my whole house. And there's no other place in the room to put it.
  16. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Rearrange the room. We reversed our living room layout to do this. The stove will still heat well if it's not in the middle of the room. Our stove is in the northeast corner and does a great job of heating the house.
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2013
  17. Treemoss

    Treemoss Member

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    Loc:
    LI NY
    I tried other options and there's really no other options I can go with. Other Locations still need to be offset to go through the ceiling so the pipe could be boxed out against a wall or something. You guys really think this set up I have now wont work. That I will have big Creosote problems.
  18. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    The creosote problem will be caused by burning poor fuel. Many times I've seen some very poor installations but have seen them work out. In my own case, our chimney should not work. fwiw, we go horizontally through the outside wall (1/2+" raise per foot of horizontal) then up the side of the house but very short. It should not work; it does work.
    NortheastAl likes this.
  19. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Creosote comes from the condensation of rich flue gases. You can get accumulation from totally dry wood in a flue that is too cool.
  20. Treemoss

    Treemoss Member

    Joined:
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    Loc:
    LI NY
    So do you think my stove will work with the pictures and the set up I'm going to have. I will be Burning Seasoned wood only. Well at least 18 months old split. Oak maple mulberry.
  21. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Very true but I've rarely seen this.
    NortheastAl likes this.
  22. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    No way to know for certain until it is done but I'd hate to do that much work to find out it did not work. I also don't like that type of setup for when it comes time to clean it. But a sooteater would probably be the best bet on that. I think I've also stated before that the oak no doubt is not ready to burn yet. I'd give it one more year.

    I'm also thinking perhaps we have a forum member on LI who found a good supplier for dry wood. The Dixie lady herself. I'll try to find out if she did find someone.
    NortheastAl likes this.
  23. Treemoss

    Treemoss Member

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    LI NY
    So do you think because of my horizontal run and two offsets I will have a problem with the cool pipe.
    Now I'm thinking because of my set up I will not have a good running stove and lots of draft problem.
    So what do you guys think about that outside air kit added to the stove for better draft.
  24. Backwoods Savage

    Backwoods Savage Minister of Fire

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    Outside air will not necessarily give you better draft but in some cases it will. Especially if you have other things running like exhaust fans and driers, etc.

    I'll send the Dixie a PM and point her to this thread so if she knows of a supplier hopefully she'll give you a shout.
  25. Treemoss

    Treemoss Member

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    Thank you for all your advice and help, I am just thinking the same thing. It will be all set up and not work and then I wont know what to do.
    Backwoods Savage likes this.

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