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Insulating Greenwood, Greenfire, Steaton,

Post in 'The Boiler Room - Wood Boilers and Furnaces' started by Trzebs13, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. 2.beans

    2.beans Minister of Fire

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    not to sound like an ass but what differential on the draft door is everyone running? please everyone interested please post.

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  2. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    What does an ass sound like??

    Anyway . . . I run the factory setting of +/- 10 °F , most of the season that translates to 170-190 °F . Sometimes I run it hotter, rarely do I run it a bit cooler.

    Jimbo
  3. Trzebs13

    Trzebs13 Member

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    I run about 165-180 My aquastats are non ajustable as far as the split. I think there suppose to be +/- 10 but they seem to be more like 15-17. Which I really don't like that big of a split. Seems like I get a far amount of over run, so it get to 190-195 and hits the dump a far amount.
  4. 2.beans

    2.beans Minister of Fire

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    ok do you think if you were to run the differential closer to 10* (close at 180 open at 170) that would help with the water dripping?
  5. Vinced

    Vinced Member

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    Dumb question. Why not just put a firebrick all the way up the sides and make a grate and put firebrick or castable refractory on the top. Then attach a steel skin to the angle frame against the refractory. Then insulate and put a steel exterior skin on it? It doesn't seem right to expose insulation to the smoke and whatever is in the byproduct of wood burning. Insulation is just to retain heat. Oterwise they wouldn't they make decorative insulation for the exterior of homes, then there would be no need for siding (just an example). I don't own a boiler like this but do have an outside wood boiler. I always admired the simplicity of the design of the Seton style boilers and would consider building one when my current boiler dies. Please don't bash me to bad. I'm just wondering?
  6. 2.beans

    2.beans Minister of Fire

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    i own a seton boiler and mine doesnt drip , but ive made alot of changes since ive bought it. even at the beginning i had no drip, but have seen others that do. i still believe its boiler sizing to load but also there is a way to overcome it with or without storage whether it be more/less draft or longer/shorter idle times.
  7. sparke

    sparke Minister of Fire

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    I just installed the new refractory. This is what it looks like. http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p83/sparkie68/Refractory/

    Jesse, I am hoping to achieve everything you mentioned with the new refractory, I am also hoping to be able to clean the hex now with out worrying about snagging the insulation above the hex...
  8. Pat53

    Pat53 Minister of Fire

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    snowman, when you say "refractory board", do you mean firebrick, or an actual sheet of material? Also, how thick is this board?
    thx, Pat
  9. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    All of GreenWood/GreenFire/Adobe/Seton yada, yada, yada research and development has now been subbed out to the Hearth Gang.

    Wanna bet some Corporate nitwit is gonna try to say we stole his design?

    :coolsmirk: :coolsmirk: :coolsmirk:
  10. Jesse-M

    Jesse-M Member

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    Nice work, looks good.....Will be interesting to see how your unit works for you now. Keep us posted on how the changes work.
    ( Did you cast those pieces yourself, and what kinda money was involved for material? )
  11. Trzebs13

    Trzebs13 Member

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    Very nice work Sparke, It would be intresting to know some of the temp differences you'll get. Top of skin and the flue temps. Are you going to insulate the back compartment as long as you have it apart? It will be intresting to see what kind of changes you notice.
  12. sparke

    sparke Minister of Fire

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    I did cast the pieces myself. I made forms from 2x4 and plywood. It took 3 bags of 50 lb refractory ( I ran short on the second side had to cheat and put some old refractory bricks in the form to make up for about 25lb of refractory). This cost $240 that include 3.5lbs of stainless needles. The top is 2 pieces 14" x 28"x 1.5" thick. The sides are 7.5"x 28" x 3.5".

    I did not do anything with the back but I put as much insulation on the sides and top as possible. I feel most of the heat is absorbed by the hex, I have never had an issue with the back of the boiler being to hot, but it will be interesting to see if you guys notice a difference. That said, I didnt want to put more insulation back there blocking the exhaust path. It doesnt seem like there is alot of room for the fumes to get by the back wall and Hex as it is. I still need to take side off again(next year) and make access holes like Jimbo's pics. That will hopefully be my final change... I will make final tweaks then.

    I will keep you guys posted on changes I notice. If I dont see a performance increase, at least I will be able to clean the top of the HEX now without snagging the insulation...
  13. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    Sparke:

    Can you give us a link to where you got the refractory and SS needles?

    Is the original refractory a one-piece unit, or sectional? If I remember correctly, the Setons are sectional. I can't remember about your GreeFire.

    Did you bake the refractory after you formed it, and if so, how?

    Jimbo
  14. sparke

    sparke Minister of Fire

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    I bought the refractory and ss needles at a local concrete plant. I dont know anyone with a kiln so I am going to build several small fires and let them go out before I really fire it. Not sure about greenwood but my unit had alot of moisture come out the first few fires so I guess curing them via normal fires works. Yes my unit is sectional, 3 pieces originally, now 7 : )
  15. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    This thread is taking on a life of it's own :bug:

    So, I decided on 16ga mild steel. I decided I wanted to test the access panels before I plunk down casholla on SS and then find out it don't work. I also ordered the two types of insulation from McMaster-Carr. They don't give you a shipping quote!! rathbastages :coolgrin:

    Much as I'd like to experiment with refractory and controls, not this year.

    Jimbo
  16. tom in maine

    tom in maine Minister of Fire

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    Sparke, nice job.
    Refractory this thick will take a while to dry out. If there wasn't any info on the bag, it might be prudent to let it dry naturally for several (3 or 4) weeks.
    If you fire it too much, it will crack from the moisture that is in the middle of the casting.
    As one who has messed up his share of refractory, long drying times are good.
  17. Deere10

    Deere10 New Member

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    Jimbo what did you order for insulation? I used Roxul from a local lumberyard. I was told it is fireproof and has a 2150 temp rating for it. I hope it will hold up. Hoping to finish project rebuild this wknd. Is the angle of the pipe on the top of the unit critical? I replaced the top nipple and missed the angle by about an inch at the rearof the unit.Has been starting to cool off little by little getting a litlle bit itchy to fire this up again. Thanks
  18. sparke

    sparke Minister of Fire

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    Thanks for the info Tom.

    FYI - Roxul is the exact same board they sell at F.W Webb. Not sure if you have that store in your area. It seems to be much cheaper at Webbs then the lumber store. They quoted me something like 30 bucks a board for 3". I paid about 9 bucks a piece for 2" boards...
  19. 2.beans

    2.beans Minister of Fire

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    sparke that looks nice, very nice. it will be interesting to see the results
  20. Trzebs13

    Trzebs13 Member

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    Well I finally had to scratch my itch and light a fire. And the resuls are less than stunning. I fired it with 2.5 yr seasond oak splits and some construction scraps. And even after having it fire wide open for at least 4 hrs the thing is still dripping. I'm really puzzled where this comes from. On a good note the back (outside) of the unit seems to be much cooler on the skins. And I can't really measure it but It did seem like I got less tempature drop when the infloor kicked in. But not like it's that cold out.

    Well that's what experamenting is about. If you don't make many mistakes then, you must not do much.
  21. Deere10

    Deere10 New Member

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    Fired mine up Sunday morning after the re assembly. No leaks....Yeah... So far so good house at 72 n toasty. Ya not that its cold either. I dont have any Huffing or Dripping,and didnt last year either. Maybe just dumb luck. No Oak here,just some damp ash that I didnt get in the shed before the big rains we had here a couple weeks ago. Just perch them up in front of the door for 6 hrs or so seems to be helping though.
  22. Jesse-M

    Jesse-M Member

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    OK .....I've found that everywhere the insulation is in contact with metal, I have a deterioration problem. I wanted to get the insulation away from the smoke, creosote, and moisture. New INNER skins....new insulation....original outer skins.



    .
  23. Trzebs13

    Trzebs13 Member

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    Now that looks nice!!! You must be a fabracator or have good access to a fab shop. How thick is that sheeting? And is your main intention to stop the corosin?
  24. ISeeDeadBTUs

    ISeeDeadBTUs Guest

    LOL, Jess, yer gonna have to get about 35k per unit in order to get into the black before the warrenty claims start . . .
  25. sparke

    sparke Minister of Fire

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    Jesse, that is awesome looking work. I bet you could sell a ton of those to GW owners. You could make a 2 -piece side panel as a retrofit. When we take off a side to clean, no need to replace insulation. Well done! I will be your first customer!

    Question: Are you only using 2" of insulation? I tried 2" on the sides once and it was not enough...

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