It looks like a GREAT deal on a used (new) stove ($800) but is it? Has ANYONE even "heard of" or h

[53flyer]

Here's one for you: The guy said the location shouldn't be an issue "especially since the cat shouldn't need to be serviced/replaced for at least 20+ yrs"... He's a former chimney sweep too.

He’s full of it! You need to take the cat out and brush or vacuume out the fly ash about once every cord of wood burned.
Cats usually last about 3-6 years more or less depending on how the person burns their stove. Dry wood and proper maintenance will extend it’s life but 20 years is very doubtful unless you are an ocassional burner. I’ve never seen the insides of this stove but it sounds similar to the Country Flame BBF and it’s pretty easy unbolting the 2 bolts to remove the baffle and the cat should just slide out, maybe a 15 minute job.

Todd- I agree (ref He's full of it), that's what I meant by "here's one for you". I haven't seen the BBF but here's a Sierra link that shows a schematic of it (on last pg) if that helps you decide how close it is to the BBF: http://www.empireproductsinc.com/images/pdfs/manuals/sierra/sierra_installation_4700tec_pt2.pdf

maggard- Thanks, I think that would make your sisters stove (circa 1987) another pre multiple change of ownership models.

BB- I didn’t buy the Quad (it came with house). I’ve been looking at BK and Lopi but this deal “is very intriguing”. I simply want a little reassurance and from what I’ve read on this forum it seems like most people here try to get current insight from others who own the same stoves they’re interested in buying. The problem here is the apparent lack of new Sierra ownership by anyone… Reasonable?...

 

[53flyer]

53... If its a CAT and it HAS BBs consent, then its a no brainer. You sound like your a thrifty guy and I think this stove has your name on it.

north of 60- Yes, I agree and I’m extremely interested in this "cat" stove. My hesitation comes from thinking & reading statements like the following quotes taken from another thread. I don’t want to be in the situation lucy was (below) and end up with a "VC pos cat" that I want to get rid of after thinking I was getting a good deal. Is that Reasonable? P.S. Nice choice of words "thrifty" LOL. I just don't like being ripped off (defined by me as paying unreasonable mark ups on items I buy or getting a pos when I thought it was a good deal)...

Granted not all stoves make good use of cats, but some do, BK is one of these. I’m not sold on non cat stoves that use secondary air to reclaim heat from creosote. You’re smart to research brands & models, so you’ll recognize a good stove when it becomes available, the key will be to KNOW what you’re buying, and not jump on something because it’s attractive looking or inexpensive. To do so will get you exactly that, inexpensive or attractive, but probably not an excellent woodheater.

Without getting into cat vs non cat, I basically agree with Stockcarver. Although I will say your VC Defiant is a POS (sorry) and I wouldn't judge something like a BK based on your VC.

However, the quality/longevity of Englander stoves should not be questioned. Don't think just because they’re cheap, this means they are junk. Not so! They’re very well made and don't have the added cost of the typical dealer network included in their price..

I think we're so overly cautious about the Englander/Summers Heat because we hold stock in the old saying: "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is." The Englander/Summers Heat models we are considering are listed for $799 compared to the Lopi at $1320. That's certainly an attractive savings but we want to make sure it won't cost us down the road.

About our VC being a POS - you're not nearly as sorry as we are.

 

[Chargerman]

Here's one for you: The guy said the location shouldn't be an issue "especially since the cat shouldn't need to be serviced/replaced for at least 20+ yrs"... He's a former chimney sweep too.

He's full of it! You need to take the cat out and brush or vacuume out the fly ash about once every cord of wood burned. Cats usually last about 3-6 years more or less depending on how the person burns their stove. Dry wood and proper maintenance will extend it's life but 20 years is very doubtful unless you are an ocassional burner. I've never seen the insides of this stove but it sounds similar to the Country Flame BBF and it's pretty easy unbolting the 2 bolts to remove the baffle and the cat should just slide out, maybe a 15 minute job.

Todd- I agree (ref He's full of it), that's what I meant by "here's one for you". I haven't seen the BBF but here's a link that shows a schematic of it (on last pg) if that helps you decide how close it is to the BBF: http://www.empireproductsinc.com/images/pdfs/manuals/sierra/sierra_installation_4700tec_pt2.pdf

The BBF has a different cat mounting system than that. On mine there is a baffle plate to protect the catalyst that has 4 bolts. Above that one large catalyst is horizontally held in place with a slide in assembly that has one bolt to secure it. It only takes a couple minutes to remove. The older BBF's have a 10 bolt design but I have not seen one.

The Country Flames are not very well represented here either and they are a good quality stove. The big Buck 91 is also not mentioned much either and they are good. I think it basically comes down to dealer networks, "big" cat stoves are used less, the look may not appeal as much in freestanding apps, and the higher cost.

That Sierra you are looking at seems like a nice stove and it is priced like one half it's size. Probably not a bad deal if it is what you are after for the size and looks.

 

[53flyer]

He’s full of it! You need to take the cat out and brush or vacuume out the fly ash about once every cord of wood burned. Cats usually last about 3-6 years more or less depending on how the person burns their stove. Dry wood and proper maintenance will extend it’s life but 20 years is very doubtful unless you are an ocassional burner. I’ve never seen the insides of this stove but it sounds similar to the Country Flame BBF and it’s pretty easy unbolting the 2 bolts to remove the baffle and the cat should just slide out, maybe a 15 minute job.

Todd-I agree (ref He’s full of it), that’s what I meant by “here’s one for you”. I haven't seen the BBF but here's a link that shows a schematic of the Sierra (last pg) if that helps you decide how close it is to the BBF: http://www.empireproductsinc.com/images/pdfs/manuals/sierra/sierra_installation_4700tec_pt2.pdf

The BBF has a different cat mounting system than that. On mine there is a baffle plate to protect the catalyst that has 4 bolts. Above that one large catalyst is horizontally held in place with a slide in assembly that has one bolt to secure it. It only takes a couple minutes to remove. The older BBF's have a 10 bolt design but I have not seen one.

The Country Flames are not very well represented here either and they are a good quality stove. The big Buck 91 is also not mentioned much either and they are good. I think it basically comes down to dealer networks, "big" cat stoves are used less, the look may not appeal as much in freestanding apps, and the higher cost.

That Sierra you are looking at seems like a nice stove and it is priced like one half it's size. Probably not a bad deal if it is what you are after for the size and looks.

Charger- Thanks for the reply. You have a great point and I completely agree that a few less common stoves could still be very high quality. Sierra just seems to be one of the most uncommon out there (based on 95% of the fireplace stores I called never hearing of Sierra- I called the entire phone book). By contrast, most of those shops have heard of, and some sell, Country and Buck stoves. I am leaning towards taking a chance on it but I still have to call the company again and see if I can get some straight answers to a few things.

 

[Rudyjr]

If that stove was in central Ohio it would have been gone days ago.

 

[THEMAN]

The BBF has a different cat mounting system than that. On mine there is a baffle plate to protect the catalyst that has 4 bolts. Above that one large catalyst is horizontally held in place with a slide in assembly that has one bolt to secure it. It only takes a couple minutes to remove. The older BBF's have a 10 bolt design but I have not seen one.

The Country Flames are not very well represented here either and they are a good quality stove. The big Buck 91 is also not mentioned much either and they are good. I think it basically comes down to dealer networks, "big" cat stoves are used less, the look may not appeal as much in freestanding apps, and the higher cost.

That Sierra you are looking at seems like a nice stove and it is priced like one half it's size. Probably not a bad deal if it is what you are after for the size and looks.

Glad to hear the Buck 91 is good I just picked one up and am installing it this weekend. Even though I don't think I could have gone too wrong with it for only $300.00

 

[Wet1]

Glad to hear the Buck 91 is good I just picked one up and am installing it this weekend. Even though I don't think I could have gone too wrong with it for only $300.00

That's a great price for that stove, assuming it's in good shape. I don't know much about the climate in central CA, but unless it's cooler there than I thought, or you have a very large area to heat, I think you're going to find you have PLENTY of stove to keep you warm. Congrats on the good buy!

 

[Chargerman]

The BBF has a different cat mounting system than that. On mine there is a baffle plate to protect the catalyst that has 4 bolts. Above that one large catalyst is horizontally held in place with a slide in assembly that has one bolt to secure it. It only takes a couple minutes to remove. The older BBF's have a 10 bolt design but I have not seen one.

The Country Flames are not very well represented here either and they are a good quality stove. The big Buck 91 is also not mentioned much either and they are good. I think it basically comes down to dealer networks, "big" cat stoves are used less, the look may not appeal as much in freestanding apps, and the higher cost.

That Sierra you are looking at seems like a nice stove and it is priced like one half it's size. Probably not a bad deal if it is what you are after for the size and looks.

Glad to hear the Buck 91 is good I just picked one up and am installing it this weekend. Even though I don't think I could have gone too wrong with it for only $300.00

I called on a nice Buck 91 up here in Wisconsin off Craigslist, the guy was asking $1200 and it sold so I think you did pretty good at $300.

 

[Chargerman]

I've never seen the insides of this stove but it sounds similar to the Country Flame BBF and it's pretty easy unbolting the 2 bolts to remove the baffle and the cat should just slide out, maybe a 15 minute job.

Todd-I haven't seen the BBF but here's a link that shows a schematic of the Sierra (last pg) if that helps you decide how close it is to the BBF: http://www.empireproductsinc.com/images/pdfs/manuals/sierra/sierra_installation_4700tec_pt2.pdf

The BBF has a different cat mounting system than that. On mine there is a baffle plate to protect the catalyst that has 4 bolts. Above that one large catalyst is horizontally held in place with a slide in assembly that has one bolt to secure it. It only takes a couple minutes to remove. The older BBF's have a 10 bolt design but I have not seen one.

The Country Flames are not very well represented here either and they are a good quality stove. The big Buck 91 is also not mentioned much either and they are good. I think it basically comes down to dealer networks, "big" cat stoves are used less, the look may not appeal as much in freestanding apps, and the higher cost.

That Sierra you are looking at seems like a nice stove and it is priced like one half it's size. Probably not a bad deal if it is what you are after for the size and looks.

Charger- Thanks for the reply. You have a great point and I completely agree that a few less common stoves could still be very high quality. Sierra just seems to be one of the most uncommon out there (based on 95% of the fireplace stores I called never hearing of Sierra- I called the entire phone book). By contrast, most of those shops have heard of, and some sell, Country and Buck stoves. I am leaning towards taking a chance on it but I still have to call the company again and see if I can get some straight answers to a few things.

My biggest concern with that stove would be availability of the replacement catalysts. As long as those are available you should be good for a long time since it is new. Fan motors, switches, wiring, and maybe glass would be the other things to think of down the road. Gaskets should be off the shelf items.

 

[THEMAN]

Glad to hear the Buck 91 is good I just picked one up and am installing it this weekend. Even though I don't think I could have gone too wrong with it for only $300.00

That's a great price for that stove, assuming it's in good shape. I don't know much about the climate in central CA, but unless it's cooler there than I thought, or you have a very large area to heat, I think you're going to find you have PLENTY of stove to keep you warm. Congrats on the good buy!

It's in very good shape. Blower works great, it was a bit dusty but the good ol' air compressor took care of that. The cat was in great shape too. I honestly don't think it was used very much. I'm going to start an install thread as soon as I get my offset box and liner and will have plenty of pics . I check local dealer for the same stove and locally it would cost me $4100.00 gotta love Craigslist.

 

[53flyer]

If that stove was in central Ohio it would have been gone days ago.

Regardless of who made it, weather or not it had a cat, and with no concern as to any recommendations from present users (either here or in your local area) who seemingly are nonexistent???...

Not saying that's wrong but it seems like most people on this forum (and elsewhere) are typically looking for some sort of recommendations for/against based on real life experiences from people who own the same model (or at least brand) stove they're considering. It's really weird (to me) that with the amount of people on this forum nobody owns ANY current models from this manufacturer and most people have never even heard of them...

It just seems quite risky to buy something that nobody else wants to own (based on 1. the almost nonexistent familiarity with the company and 2. the so far completely nonexistent ownership of any current models). I must be overly cautious.

 

[BrotherBart]

Depending on whose numbers you use there are around thirteen million wood stoves in use in this country. Hearth.com has a little less than 18,000 registered members. So about one tenth of one percent of stove owners are represented here. No surprise if some company has a few thousand stoves in use out there and none of the owners have wandered through here. Especially if they are happy with their stoves and would rather spend their time by the stove watching Oprah than searching for answers they don't need.

 

[Rudyjr]

That is a $2,500 heating beast right there. If that guy was around here that stove would be on my truck tonight. The thermostat isn't for the burn it is for the blower fans. .06wc is a measure of the chimney draft and .06 is a pretty normal draft. You would use an 8" oval to round adapter to connect it to a 8" liner.

It is a different company now but I burned in a Sierra pre-EPA insert that size for over twenty years and loved that stove.

Enough of an endorsement for me. Yes you might be too cautious.

 

[webbie]

I have known Sierra stoves for decades and they have always been decent well priced stoves. You are not buying the sleekest or best looking new technology, but they last and they work.

They have been through various manufacturing companies, some of which I met the owners of...

 

[mellow]

It's really weird (to me) that with the amount of people on this forum nobody owns ANY current models from this manufacturer and most people have never even heard of them...

Never seen anyone else with an XTD insert, didn't stop me from buying one though. Figure someone has to be the beta tester.

 

[BrotherBart]

I had the 30-NC shipped in from Boulder Colorado to Virginia. If that guy still has the crate I am damned tempted to get that thing picked up by FedEx freight and on its way from Post Falls,Idaho. I had never seen a 30 and nobody on hearth.com had ever typed the word Englander before I bought the 30. Well, that part has certainly changed. :lol:

I would put that Sierra bad boy in the fireplace, the 30 on the basement flue and sell the Jotul F3 down there to pay for it all. Everybody has heard of Jotul, right? :coolsmirk:

 

[53flyer]

Here's one a little closer for you BB: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/for/1472107330.html It's a cat as well since you seem interested in cats now. :coolhmm:

 

[53flyer]

I have known Sierra stoves for decades and they have always been decent well priced stoves. You are not buying the sleekest or best looking new technology, but they last and they work. They have been through various manufacturing companies, some of which I met the owners of...

Thanks for the reply; I truly appreciate helpful input. I've heard a few people say they bought or know someone who bought one back in the 70/80's but with all the changes of ownership it seems quite possible that their current products could have a very different quality now. I feel a bit lucky to hear that you knew some of the past owners and wonder if you've had any dealings with the current ones (empireproductsinc). By any chance have you seen and/or operated the 4700TEC or any of their other cats for that matter?

According to BB, one of the old owners apparently took a while to even start using cat technology. On the forums the general consensus seems to be that some manufacturers (like VC?) don't use cat technology very well and you get a piece of junk whereas others (like BK) have seemingly mastered it. With no owner feedback (here or among any stove shop/chimney sweep I called) concerning any recent stoves by Sierra I have no idea if theirs are the good ones or the bad ones and I'd prefer not to get stuck with a bad one.

I called Sierra tech support and the guy I talked had no idea what their grams/hr or firebox sizes were for any of their stoves. He was actually just looking at the same info I had (I'd expect him to have more available to him). When it was evident he couldn't find the information he then actually inferred that the firebox size was some sort of proprietary information... This all seemed a bit odd coming directly from the company (empireproductsinc now).

It'll be here for many, many yrs once it's bought so I might as well try to feel comfortable with it.

 

[53flyer]

..if they are happy with their stoves and would rather spend their time by the stove watching Oprah...

Not sure which one's worse: Oprah, "Dr Phil", Judge (insert one of many names), or "Dr" Laura (radio)... Actually, I think Laura is the worst imo. hh: :zip:

 

[53flyer]

He’s full of it! You need to take the cat out and brush or vacuume out the fly ash about once every cord of wood burned. Cats usually last about 3-6 years more or less depending on how the person burns their stove. Dry wood and proper maintenance will extend it’s life but 20 years is very doubtful unless you are an ocassional burner. I’ve never seen the insides of this stove but it sounds similar to the Country Flame BBF and it’s pretty easy unbolting the 2 bolts to remove the baffle and the cat should just slide out, maybe a 15 minute job.

Todd-I haven't seen the BBF but here's a link that shows a schematic of the Sierra (last pg) if that helps you decide how close it is to the BBF: http://www.empireproductsinc.com/images/pdfs/manuals/sierra/sierra_installation_4700tec_pt2.pdf

The BBF has a different cat mounting system than that. On mine there is a baffle plate to protect the catalyst that has 4 bolts. Above that one large catalyst is horizontally held in place with a slide in assembly that has one bolt to secure it. It only takes a couple minutes to remove. The older BBF's have a 10 bolt design but I have not seen one.

The Country Flames are not very well represented here either and they are a good quality stove. The big Buck 91 is also not mentioned much either and they are good. I think it basically comes down to dealer networks, "big" cat stoves are used less, the look may not appeal as much in freestanding apps, and the higher cost.

That Sierra you are looking at seems like a nice stove and it is priced like one half it's size. Probably not a bad deal if it is what you are after for the size and looks.

Charger- Thanks for the reply. You have a great point and I completely agree that a few less common stoves could still be very high quality. Sierra just seems to be one of the most uncommon out there (based on 95% of the fireplace stores I called never hearing of Sierra- I called the entire phone book). By contrast, most of those shops have heard of, and some sell, Country and Buck stoves. I am leaning towards taking a chance on it but I still have to call the company again and see if I can get some straight answers to a few things.

My biggest concern with that stove would be availability of the replacement catalysts. As long as those are available you should be good for a long time since it is new. Fan motors, switches, wiring, and maybe glass would be the other things to think of down the road. Gaskets should be off the shelf items.

I was actually checked on the parts issue and that seems to be ok but I'd like to hope I wouldn't need any parts for a while. Assuming the cats are actually installed in the stove. jk lol

 

[Wet1]

The cat used is very likely an off the shelf piece. Get the dimensions, I'd be willing to bet it's a std. size.

53,

At some point you need to stop over-thinking all of this and and pony up.

 

[Rudyjr]

At some point you need to stop over-thinking all of this and and pony up.

+1

 

[53flyer]

Here's the result of a phone call placed to SPI in regard to "their product". I was referred to Julian in technical support "because he should know the answers to my Q's". Here's a sampling of the Q's I asked him which range from what should be easy, off the top of the head answers, to ones which might require 30sec to look up the actual answer. Remember, this is "the manufacturer" of this product...:

*1) Q: What’s the min Chimney flue height (it’s listed as 12’ and 15’ in two separate places)? A: I don’t know, does it matter?
This is an extremely important piece of installation information and for someone in technical support to not know the answer shows incompetence. On a side note, I verified that this "was in fact" their technical support guy with a follow on call...

*2) Q: What’s the min allowable SS liner that can be used with this insert. A: 8”
I pressed him on this because this was another piece of contradictory information (listed as 6” in one location and 8” in another) and I know that reducing a flue is only authorized if the manufacturer has tested and approved such an application which is why I wanted the clarification which Julian could not provide.

3) Q: What are the emissions in grams per hour. A: I don’t know.
Yet another answer that made me thinks “How can this be possible” in the back of my mind. This is one of the items readily available in all other stove manufacturers brochures and is required to be tested so the information has to be somewhere…

4) Q: What’s the cuft of the firebox? A: I don’t know but I think it takes a 24” log. He then started reading one of the indicated outside dimensions that I’ve seen myself and have nothing to do with the cuft of the firebox. When pressed he said the company didn’t give out this sort of info and inferred a “proprietary reason” (I had to fight not to lol at him)… Btw, wood size is listed as 24” in one spot and 22” in another but it is 24” so at least he guessed right on that point even if he couldn’t answer the actual Q.

* He tried to defer answers to 1&2 to my local installer & building codes. I tried to explain to him that the installers have to refer to what "the manufacturer says" (i.e. you Julian) iot make decisions as to weather it's an authorized installation method.

** Answers to other Q's were equally inept.

At some point you need to stop over-thinking all of this and and pony up.

+1

LOL. I'm sure at least a few people have referred to friends, stores, neighbors, consumer reports, etc. when evaluating quality and so far this stove has none of those going for it so it's definitely -2 on those counts. Perhaps some people just buy on impulse and disregard the above concerns. More power to them/you and I hope they don't get too many lemons...As the cracked firebox PE folks can attest, the quality of the company/distributors/dealers plays a big role in the service you may or may not get should you ever need it. Employees also provide a representation of the overall quality of a company and incompetence shown at any level (especially the technical level) reflects quite poorly on the overall company and should to be taken into account just as the track record of the actual model is taken into account by most people.

Now if the above answers "do" inspire confidence in anyone then I have some things I'd like to sell you or be the broker for with no questions "answered"... Perhaps an old car that I can't remember when or if the oil was ever changed, a shed that I may or may not have weatherproof, or perhaps a hot air balloon, hang glider, or helicopter (don't ask me how to fly them though...and good luck on that first flight). Then again, maybe it'd be better to find the answers before pursuing the purchase/use those items.

I hope this isn't taken the wrong way because I'm not coming after anyone in particular but the situation is a bit frustrating. I really don't think it's asking too much to expect answers to "relatively simple questions" from the maker of the product. I also believe that "most" people seek validation/recommendation irt the quality and performance of items they buy (as in where'd you get that ___ and how do you like/dislike its performance/reliability?). That’s the reason consumer report has so many readers.

 

[Rudyjr]

Buy another Quad.

+1 Lifes too short

 

[BrotherBart]

Buy another Quad.

+1 Lifes too short

For sure. If you buy a Quad you know from forum member's experience that when the secondary air manifold cracks that somebody will come out and screw a patch over it. And if a PE stove cracks they will weld it back together. I mean why would you ever want to pay $800 for a new $2,500 stove that is built like a freakin battleship. I mean heck, the guy on the phone didn't know the g/h number. Which by the way is 3.2, it is on the EPA website.

Run very far away from that stove. Well, if it is even still available. :lol: