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Just noticed...no surge protectors

Post in 'The Pellet Mill - Pellet and Multifuel Stoves' started by imacman, Oct 6, 2008.

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  1. imacman

    imacman Guest

    Hey everybody. I know this has been discussed before, but with cold weather coming, and more & more people installing their stoves, I thought it was appropriate to mention this again.

    I finished installing my Astoria Bay yesterday, and posted pics. I also took the time to look at a lot of other new installs, and when possible, to see if they were plugged into any kind of surge protector. MOST were not protected!!

    We've all spent a lot of $$ to buy and install these machines, and they need to be protected from voltage spikes....as far as I'm concerned, I don't need to replace what seems to be a vulnerable part....the control board....for lack of a simple $7-8 item.

    This one was mentioned previously, and I picked it up at my local Radio Shack.....it protects to 1085 Joules, and comes with a $50,000 Connected Equipment Guarantee.

    www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2454735&cp;

    $7-8 bucks is cheap insurance, IMO.

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  2. strangemainer

    strangemainer New Member

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    I gots one!
  3. mjbrown

    mjbrown Feeling the Heat

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    i just installed an englander for my dad 2 wks ago and told him he needed one, he said he would get one but hook it up and run it for now...he got mad at me bcuz i refused to plug it in and run it until he went and got the surge protector. i said later never comes, and he aked why i was so addiment...i told him what it cost for a new curcuit board and what it cost for a new surge protector, and he said hold on for a minute i will be right back...he went to the store and bought one, end of argument.

    mike
  4. bostonbaked

    bostonbaked Member

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    Good advise. I have them all over the house and use them on all of my costly electronics. Cheap insurance.
  5. JBlank912

    JBlank912 New Member

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    As a computer repair guy I'm a firm beleiver in surge protectors. I have a whole house one and a UPS on my computer system. As well as a good surge protector on my TV's and stereo, I never thought of the stove needing one but your absolutely right. Its top priority to get one on the stove! Thanks. :red:
  6. crausch

    crausch New Member

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    I agree that it is a wise investement to protect our expensive stoves and other equipment with a surge protector. I would just add though...be careful and make sure you buy a good one. I would be leary of something too cheap. I am a believer that you get what you pay for most of the time.
  7. Xena

    Xena Minister of Fire

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    Another computer repair tech here and would advise against
    using a cheap surge protector. I've seen way too many pieces
    of equipment get fried despite being plugged into (a cheap) one.
    I use Belkin and Tripp Lite in my home and out in the field.
  8. imacman

    imacman Guest

    Normally, I would agree 100% about "you get what you pay for" (I can hear my fathers voice in my head), but the one I mentioned above seems to be a good unit. Otherwise, why would they give a $50,000 guarantee on anything that gets "fried" that was plugged into it?

    I read on another thread that anything over 1000 Joules of protection should be good for the stoves, and the Radio Shack one covers that.

    PS, I even took a digital pic of the stove plugged into it as sort of "proof" if anything ever did happen.
  9. swalz

    swalz Feeling the Heat

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    I still would be careful on the cheaper ones, just because it says it has a $50,000 warranty doesn't mean a thing if they don't back it up. I have been in the computer/server service since 1991 and have seen the cheap ones let the surge go through, especial on the neutral or grounded side. I did not see any specs except what you listed, they don't say what the clamping time is or what it will let trough before it clamps the voltage. It also doesn't say what is protected, I would not buy not knowing if the hot, ground and neutral are protected. Most of the cheap ones only protect the hot side and nothing else. I mentioned in another post that I like APC and Tripp-Lite, I think they are some of the best out there. These are the ones I use and know they work, I Also have a Belkin and it is a good surge protector I just can't vouch for them since I only have used the one.

    Revised:

    Did find some specs under features go figure think they would put them under the Specs tab. They only give a 90 day warranty must not think it will last. I know Tripp-Lite gives lifetime warranty something else to consider. They still don't give the clamping time which is important but it does clamp at 330V which is good.

    Lines protected: Line, neutral and ground (L-N-G)
    Clamping volt: 330V
    Joule rating: 1085J
    Ground LED indication (green)
    EMI/RFI filtering: up to 40dB
    90 Warranty
  10. imacman

    imacman Guest

    Thanks Swalz for your experience info. I guess that the best thing is that I got quite a few people to start thinking that they need surge protection for their stove.....even the "cheapie" one I mentioned would be better than none at all....and now it seems it isn't that bad after all.

    So, based upon your revised info, even though it only has a 90 day warranty, it isn't a bad unit for what it is....and it DOES protect all 3 lines.

    I am no expert, but thought it would do an adequate job. BTW, can you fill us in on what the "EMI/RFI filtering" specs means? Is 40dB good? bad?
  11. swalz

    swalz Feeling the Heat

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    I pulled this from a web page, I know the voltage side but never really looked at the filtering. By the way I am not an expert either I do have an Electricity/Electronics degree though but have not had to really use it so have forgotten most of it.

    What is EMI/RFI?

    EMI/RFI stands for "Electro-Magnetic Interference" and "Radio Frequency Interference". EMI/RFI is a high frequency / low energy noise typically of a continuous nature that doesn't directly destroy electronic systems, but rather disrupts the proper function by overwhelming the normal signal information within the electrical circuitry. A good example of the type of noise is the household vacuum cleaner. If the vacuum is running and you are attempting to watch TV, you may notice lines of interference on the TV screen or even sound distortion. This interference on the TV is being conducted from the motor of the vacuum through the power lines and into the TV. Although you may be able to still see and hear the TV, it is not functioning correctly. EMI/RFI in interfering with the proper function of the TV. This interference may be minor to the TV, but imagine that same interference in medical equipment or an industrial computer controlling a manufacturing process. That interference is not just a nuisance and could potentially cause a failure, which might injure or kill a patient or damage a major manufacturing process costing thousands of dollars.

    What does a filter do?

    EMI/RFI filters are designed to stop the EMI/RFI electrical noise from entering an electronic system and causing disruptions.

    Why use Filters?

    The purpose of an EMI/RFI filter is two fold. First it stops noise from entering and disrupting the operation of your electrical equipment. Secondly, it stops your electrical equipment from putting EMI/RFI noise onto the power lines.

    The first is to protect your equipment from malfunction or failure.The second is to protect other electrical equipment. The FCC, IEC and other regulatory agencies have rules and regulations concerning the amount of electrical noise your equipment will be allowed to place onto the AC Power line. These limits must be met before your equipment will be allowed to be connected to the AC Power line. The European limitations are much more stringent then the North American limits.
  12. imacman

    imacman Guest

    Hate to keep bugging you Swalz, but ..... Is 40dB for this surge protector good, bad, or just so-so?
  13. swalz

    swalz Feeling the Heat

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  14. imacman

    imacman Guest

    Thanks swalz. I'm actually feeling a bit better about the one I bought....the clamping voltage is good, the joule rating is good, it protects all 3 lines, and you feel that 40 dB is good.

    BTW.....I found it interesting that the article you included had this to say:

    "No surge protector is 100 percent effective, and even top of the line equipment may have some serious problems. Electronics experts are actually somewhat divided over the best way to deal with power surges..."
  15. swalz

    swalz Feeling the Heat

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    Yea I saw that, I still would not buy but that is me. The one you pointed out seems ok just wish it listed the response time. On the second link it shows an APC with the the six MOVs having one leg cut removing the protection and it still shows protected. I think I might be pushing the Tripp-lites more than the APC after seeing that.
  16. bungalobob

    bungalobob Feeling the Heat

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    Got the surge protector, just don't have the stove to plug into it.
  17. imacman

    imacman Guest

    Now THAT is different.... :lol:

    Hopefully you'll have something to plug into it soon....I got my fingers crossed for ya!
  18. crausch

    crausch New Member

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    Does anybody know anyone who has collected on a surge protector warranty?

    I guess I am just very sceptical. I tend to believe that these types of warranties are probably filled with escape loop holes for the companies. Even though the warranty for this item is about the same as the surge/ups protector I bought for $111.00, I find it hard to believe that a company will issue out $55k for a $5 product. When I read the warranties for these things, it looks as though you have to try to repair first, that place has to confirm that a surge is what killed it, you probably then have to have a certified electrician prove your house wiring is proper. It sounds like they could probably make you go through so much hassle in order to prove you met the warranty, that they figure most folks won't do it because of the out-of-pocket costs.

    When I worked in auto retail years ago I saw how companies twisted the wording in their warranties. A lot of times a life time warranty is only for manufacturers defects. Yeah, usually if it's defective, you'll know right away. It won't take a like time. They always seem to have some way to you didn't do this, or you didn't do that. Life time warranties are to attract sales, proving your claim may not be so attractive.

    Soory for my rant this morning. I guess I need another coffee :)
  19. teddy1971

    teddy1971 Member

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    I purchased a UPS (Cyberpower CP850AVRLCD). This has a built in voltage regulator as well as acts as a backup for the small outages that we have from time to time. I also picked up a small generator from Amazon (1200 Watts Peak, 1000 Watts continuous) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000P9UOAC) to attach to the UPS for extended outages. IMO if you goig to spend thousands of dollars on a pellet stove you can spend a couple of hundre to safe guard it.
  20. sydney1963

    sydney1963 New Member

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    Hello All,

    So I bought my single plug surge protector and found out that I will have to plug it into another surge protector. Is this good or bad? Should I just plug it into the existing protector? LOL
  21. imacman

    imacman Guest

    What?????????? I think you lost most of us with that......
  22. sydney1963

    sydney1963 New Member

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    I bought a single plug surge protector for the stove (kind of box shaped) and when I got it home I noticed due to the way the existing surge protector for the TV/DVD player/Satellite box plugs into the (plug kind of sits sideways), there isn't enough room for both surge protectors. So I plugged the stove into the surge protector that I bought and them plugged that into the existing surge protector. Just wondering if that is ok. I don't have pics so I am trying to explain it the best I can.
  23. imacman

    imacman Guest

    No, that's OK.....I understand now.

    As for whether or not it's OK to do that, maybe swalz will see this and chime in w/ his thoughts.
  24. sydney1963

    sydney1963 New Member

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    My only concern is that the special surge protector I bought for the stove has a great guarantee and I'm not sure about the other one that the TV/DVD/Satellite is plugged into.
  25. Alan

    Alan Member

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    I'm a bit skeptical of any of these UPS's (most of them) that output a modified sine wave. Modified-sine-wave backups are fine for electronic equipment that transforms, via linear or switching power supplies to lower DC voltages. But I'm concerned about the AC motors in pellet stoves running off anything but a true sine-wave output supply.

    Of course, true-sine-wave UPS's are much more expensive....
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