Looking for low-cost, hi-style wood stove

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For single-wall use pipe shields and no wall protection needed. Otherwise beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. A wall shield can be painted sheetmetal if it's on 1" standoffs. But that wouldn't make a good hearth. They make a basic black hearth board that should work ok for that.
 
raderator said:
I'll takes pics when my brother gives me my camera back. He took it skiing, like one snow covered hill looks any different from another.

So, assuming Metalbestos hasn't changed anything in 30 yrs, this should work for $233.25 shipped:

I'll have to check all the measurements. BTW, does the ceiling plate pop off? It's circular. Modern installations just have a square box sticking down. Gotta make sure this adpter will fit on what's there.

If you want to go from an 8" chimney to a 6" stovepipe, this is the wrong one. The crimped should always be *towards* the stove, so creosote stays in the pipe. Use the same brand for all fittings--stovepipe, chimney, etc.
 
raderator said:
In the case of single wall, yes. For double wall the crimp is up.

D-oh! Thanks, I stand corrected. :red:
 
Yep, this cap seems designed for a single-wall 8" pipe. There are three screw holes in the outer rim. I tried pulling it off and turning it to no avail, tho not very hard. Guess I'm gonna need a shield or wall protection. Tho a shield would make it a PITA to remove the stove pipe for flue cleaning. But the screws for the shield could serve double duty to hold the telescoping pipe together, and I wouldn't have to remove them all, maybe 6 screws.


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Now the question is, can I get away with the gap in the shield at the top and bottom. It would create quite a convection current so would cool the pipe.

stovepipe.jpg


Edit: The sites that sell this say:

This stove pipe shield allows you to reduce required single wall stove pipe clearances from 18" to 6". The shield attaches to the pipe with the ceramic spacers and screws provided. This often eliminates the need to attach a cumbersome shield directly to combustible surfaces nearby.

http://www.woodstove-outlet.com/woodstove/Ocp54120.htm
 
The saga continues. I went to Agway and, miracle of miracles, they had an 8x6 adapter crimped on the 6" side. Unfortunately, the 8" side is exactly 8", no more, and will not fit around my ceiling pipe.

I talked to the guys at Agway who looked at me funny when I asked if most people get permits. Apparently not. I asked them about telling my insurance company and they said yes, of course. They said they don't raise your rate.

This one looks much better anyway and is 22 gage. The screw holes must mean that the 8" end is wide enough to accept the pipe, no?

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The next alternative is trying to yank the ceiling plate off and replace it with something else. It has nubs that look like they are holding it on.
 
The edge of the 8" pipe opening on the support box looks much closer than 12" to the woodwork, bottom right. If so, this could be an illegal installation, even for double-wall.
 
BeGreen said:
Yep, that's for the stove, not the pipe. You can install it at 12" with single wall if the pipe is shielded, so technically it's correct. But most decent manuals would have a footnote telling you this.

Not sure about the Amesti. I haven't looked at that manual. Are the instructions even based on US or Canadian code?

Seems like we've had this discussion before?

Default clearance for single wall chimney connector is 18.0" per NFPA 211.

If a UL listed unit tests with the single wall closer to combustible walls than 18.0" it can be listed for installation that way. In other words, if, during the UL testing process, the wall temperatures behind the chimney connector do not exceed the predetermined temp. limits, you may say that the chimney connector on that particular unit can be installed closer than 18.0".

This is not that uncommon in the industry; as an example, the Morso 1410 has an 11.0" clearance between single wall chimney connector and NFPA unprotected surfaces. The Jotul 118CB lists a clearance of 13.0" from single wall chimney connector to NFPA 211 unprotected surfaces.

You may have a hard time convincing a local code enforement official of this, but I can assure you it is a safe installation.
 
BeGreen said:
The edge of the 8" pipe opening on the support box looks much closer than 12" to the woodwork, bottom right. If so, this could be an illegal installation, even for double-wall.

It's a white bookcase which is going. The pipe is 12" from the wall.
 
SmokingAndPoking said:
BeGreen said:
Yep, that's for the stove, not the pipe. You can install it at 12" with single wall if the pipe is shielded, so technically it's correct. But most decent manuals would have a footnote telling you this.

Not sure about the Amesti. I haven't looked at that manual. Are the instructions even based on US or Canadian code?

Seems like we've had this discussion before?

Default clearance for single wall chimney connector is 18.0" per NFPA 211.

If a UL listed unit tests with the single wall closer to combustible walls than 18.0" it can be listed for installation that way. In other words, if, during the UL testing process, the wall temperatures behind the chimney connector do not exceed the predetermined temp. limits, you may say that the chimney connector on that particular unit can be installed closer than 18.0".

This is not that uncommon in the industry; as an example, the Morso 1410 has an 11.0" clearance between single wall chimney connector and NFPA unprotected surfaces. The Jotul 118CB lists a clearance of 13.0" from single wall chimney connector to NFPA 211 unprotected surfaces.

You may have a hard time convincing a local code enforement official of this, but I can assure you it is a safe installation.

I always assumed this and that the stove manuals were correct. Unfortunately, the Englander guy says (a few posts back) that the manual is wrong:

ok, here’s the poop on the clearance discrpancy:

the measurements listed in the manual are for the stove itself and how close it can be with a certain pipe system “ie” siingle wall pipe. this means in order to get the stove to teh clearance allowed FOR THE STOVE the pipe would be closer than the 18 inch minimum requirement. so, in order to achieve that clearance the pipe must be shielded per NFPA211. the pipe CAN NOT be that close otherwise.

im going to see about getting a clarification added to the manual to state this in explicit terms. but in the mean time to the OP, do not mount the stove to allow 12 inch clearance without shielding the pipe with a wall mounted protector as specified in the NFPA211

Signature
mike holton
england’s stove works inc.

So, I guess I'll go with the shield.

Edit. OMG, these Englander manuals are very confusing. Look at this one:

http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/manuals/12-FP.pdf

"A clearance of 10.5” between single wall chimney connector and combustible materials is
required. Check with authorities having jurisdiction in your area with any questions."

eng_stove2.jpg


Note 3 just says use floor protection.

Surely, there have been many Englander stoves installed with a single pipe within 1' of the wall because their manuals for the smaller stoves SAY it is OK.
 
raderator said:
SmokingAndPoking said:
BeGreen said:
Yep, that's for the stove, not the pipe. You can install it at 12" with single wall if the pipe is shielded, so technically it's correct. But most decent manuals would have a footnote telling you this.

Not sure about the Amesti. I haven't looked at that manual. Are the instructions even based on US or Canadian code?

Seems like we've had this discussion before?

Default clearance for single wall chimney connector is 18.0" per NFPA 211.

If a UL listed unit tests with the single wall closer to combustible walls than 18.0" it can be listed for installation that way. In other words, if, during the UL testing process, the wall temperatures behind the chimney connector do not exceed the predetermined temp. limits, you may say that the chimney connector on that particular unit can be installed closer than 18.0".

This is not that uncommon in the industry; as an example, the Morso 1410 has an 11.0" clearance between single wall chimney connector and NFPA unprotected surfaces. The Jotul 118CB lists a clearance of 13.0" from single wall chimney connector to NFPA 211 unprotected surfaces.

You may have a hard time convincing a local code enforement official of this, but I can assure you it is a safe installation.

I always assumed this and that the stove manuals were correct. Unfortunately, the Englander guy says (a few posts back) that the manual is wrong:

ok, here�s the poop on the clearance discrpancy:

the measurements listed in the manual are for the stove itself and how close it can be with a certain pipe system �ie� siingle wall pipe. this means in order to get the stove to teh clearance allowed FOR THE STOVE the pipe would be closer than the 18 inch minimum requirement. so, in order to achieve that clearance the pipe must be shielded per NFPA211. the pipe CAN NOT be that close otherwise.

im going to see about getting a clarification added to the manual to state this in explicit terms. but in the mean time to the OP, do not mount the stove to allow 12 inch clearance without shielding the pipe with a wall mounted protector as specified in the NFPA211

Signature
mike holton
england�s stove works inc.

So, I guess I'll go with the shield.

Edit. OMG, these Englander manuals are very confusing. Look at this one:

http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/manuals/12-FP.pdf

"A clearance of 10.5� between single wall chimney connector and combustible materials is
required. Check with authorities having jurisdiction in your area with any questions."


Note 3 just says use floor protection.

Surely, there have been many Englander stoves installed with a single pipe within 1' of the wall because their manuals for the smaller stoves SAY it is OK.


FYI, I'm the englander guy that designed the stove, wrote the manual and accompanied it through testing. The information I gave you was what was found during testing and I did my best to list it in the manual in a clear fashion.
 
We're talking about two different things here everyone.

The default clearance of 18.0" between single wall chimney connector and unprotected NFPA 211 surfaces is just that, a default value for untested stoves or installations. (The pipe manufacturers list this clearance because they don't possibly know what you're going to use the pipe on, so it keeps them out of trouble.)

The clearance listed in a manual for a tested and listed solid fuel appliance is a value that was achieved during safety testing. This value overrides the default NFPA 211 clearance, since there is no reason to take a default clearance if you LIST AN APPLIANCE to UL standards.

If you're going to say that single wall pipe can't be installed closer than 18.0" to a combustible wall because of NFPA 211 than you also have to say that a stove can't be installed closer than 36.0" because that is the NFPA 211 default clearance for wood stoves.
 
I think it needs the proper Metalbest CPA adapter ring for double-wall to be kosher, not a generic single-wall adapter. Look again at the crimped top end of the 6" double-wall pipe. Or better yet, call Selkirk.

Selkirk Corporation

Toll Free: 1.800.992.VENT (8368)
Fax: 1.877.393.4145
Email:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
 
raderator said:
So much contradictory info. But if I can get than ring to fit (see pic a couple of posts up) then I can use double wall pipe.

Well, as the designer of the stove you're buying and the person who wrote the manuals you're reading, I tried to be as clear as possible. Have fun!
 
Corie, do you know if Meltalbest DSP will slip over/in the flue collar or is an adapter needed per pipe mfg?
 
SmokingAndPoking said:
raderator said:
So much contradictory info. But if I can get than ring to fit (see pic a couple of posts up) then I can use double wall pipe.

Well, as the designer of the stove you're buying and the person who wrote the manuals you're reading, I tried to be as clear as possible. Have fun!

You need to take this up with Mike Holton (see his posts above). He claims to work for Englander and has an englander e-mail address.

Maybe this is what I need:

http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=6572

6572_large.jpg
 
That's 8".

Corie worked at Englander when he designed this stove. There is no one that knows it better.
 
OK, now I'm thinking about a cheap hearth pad. The 17-VL needs a 3'x3' and and R value of 0.5. Gold Bond 5/8ths gypsum board meets that. How about covering it with rolled aluminum flashing? Is there any way to get a solid 3'x3' piece of metal? How would you edge it?
 
raderator said:
SmokingAndPoking said:
raderator said:
So much contradictory info. But if I can get than ring to fit (see pic a couple of posts up) then I can use double wall pipe.

Well, as the designer of the stove you're buying and the person who wrote the manuals you're reading, I tried to be as clear as possible. Have fun!

You need to take this up with Mike Holton (see his posts above).

IMO, when the person who designed the stove gives you personal advice, he doesn't need to take it up with anyone. But that's just me.

Thanks for your stove and your help, Corie!
 
Well, shouldn't the other employee be in trouble for contradicting the designer? Seems like the boss should straighten this out.

How about a sheet of gypsum board covered with glass? You could paint the bottom of the glass some cool color and it would be perfectly smooth.

BTW, is fiberglass allowed to touch a Class A chimney pipe if there's no paper on it?
 
IMO, it would be nice if said designer would do more than just come here to collect praise... he's been asked several questions lately and refused to answer any of them. Odd behavior toward a group that essentially got him connected into the industry.
 
precaud said:
IMO, it would be nice if said designer would do more than just come here to collect praise... he's been asked several questions lately and refused to answer any of them. Odd behavior toward a group that essentially got him connected into the industry.

I guess you missed:

We’re talking about two different things here everyone.

The default clearance of 18.0†between single wall chimney connector and unprotected NFPA 211 surfaces is just that, a default value for untested stoves or installations. (The pipe manufacturers list this clearance because they don’t possibly know what you’re going to use the pipe on, so it keeps them out of trouble.)

The clearance listed in a manual for a tested and listed solid fuel appliance is a value that was achieved during safety testing. This value overrides the default NFPA 211 clearance, since there is no reason to take a default clearance if you LIST AN APPLIANCE to UL standards.

If you’re going to say that single wall pipe can’t be installed closer than 18.0†to a combustible wall because of NFPA 211 than you also have to say that a stove can’t be installed closer than 36.0†because that is the NFPA 211 default clearance for wood stoves.

I found that very direct and helpful--Corie cleared up a confusing issue that has been raised and discussed many times here. I am very grateful to get such personal help from a stove's designer. But that's just me.

Why criticize someone who is volunteering time just to help folks? All it does is drive them away.
 
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