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Looking for low-cost, hi-style wood stove

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by raderator, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    For single-wall use pipe shields and no wall protection needed. Otherwise beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. A wall shield can be painted sheetmetal if it's on 1" standoffs. But that wouldn't make a good hearth. They make a basic black hearth board that should work ok for that.

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  2. Renovation

    Renovation New Member

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    If you want to go from an 8" chimney to a 6" stovepipe, this is the wrong one. The crimped should always be *towards* the stove, so creosote stays in the pipe. Use the same brand for all fittings--stovepipe, chimney, etc.
  3. raderator

    raderator New Member

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  4. Renovation

    Renovation New Member

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    D-oh! Thanks, I stand corrected. :red:
  5. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    Yep, this cap seems designed for a single-wall 8" pipe. There are three screw holes in the outer rim. I tried pulling it off and turning it to no avail, tho not very hard. Guess I'm gonna need a shield or wall protection. Tho a shield would make it a PITA to remove the stove pipe for flue cleaning. But the screws for the shield could serve double duty to hold the telescoping pipe together, and I wouldn't have to remove them all, maybe 6 screws.


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Now the question is, can I get away with the gap in the shield at the top and bottom. It would create quite a convection current so would cool the pipe.

    [​IMG]

    Edit: The sites that sell this say:

    This stove pipe shield allows you to reduce required single wall stove pipe clearances from 18" to 6". The shield attaches to the pipe with the ceramic spacers and screws provided. This often eliminates the need to attach a cumbersome shield directly to combustible surfaces nearby.

    http://www.woodstove-outlet.com/woodstove/Ocp54120.htm
  6. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    The saga continues. I went to Agway and, miracle of miracles, they had an 8x6 adapter crimped on the 6" side. Unfortunately, the 8" side is exactly 8", no more, and will not fit around my ceiling pipe.

    I talked to the guys at Agway who looked at me funny when I asked if most people get permits. Apparently not. I asked them about telling my insurance company and they said yes, of course. They said they don't raise your rate.

    This one looks much better anyway and is 22 gage. The screw holes must mean that the 8" end is wide enough to accept the pipe, no?

    [​IMG]

    The next alternative is trying to yank the ceiling plate off and replace it with something else. It has nubs that look like they are holding it on.
  7. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    The edge of the 8" pipe opening on the support box looks much closer than 12" to the woodwork, bottom right. If so, this could be an illegal installation, even for double-wall.
  8. SmokingAndPoking

    SmokingAndPoking Member

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    Seems like we've had this discussion before?

    Default clearance for single wall chimney connector is 18.0" per NFPA 211.

    If a UL listed unit tests with the single wall closer to combustible walls than 18.0" it can be listed for installation that way. In other words, if, during the UL testing process, the wall temperatures behind the chimney connector do not exceed the predetermined temp. limits, you may say that the chimney connector on that particular unit can be installed closer than 18.0".

    This is not that uncommon in the industry; as an example, the Morso 1410 has an 11.0" clearance between single wall chimney connector and NFPA unprotected surfaces. The Jotul 118CB lists a clearance of 13.0" from single wall chimney connector to NFPA 211 unprotected surfaces.

    You may have a hard time convincing a local code enforement official of this, but I can assure you it is a safe installation.
  9. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    It's a white bookcase which is going. The pipe is 12" from the wall.
  10. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    I always assumed this and that the stove manuals were correct. Unfortunately, the Englander guy says (a few posts back) that the manual is wrong:

    So, I guess I'll go with the shield.

    Edit. OMG, these Englander manuals are very confusing. Look at this one:

    http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/manuals/12-FP.pdf

    "A clearance of 10.5” between single wall chimney connector and combustible materials is
    required. Check with authorities having jurisdiction in your area with any questions."

    [​IMG]

    Note 3 just says use floor protection.

    Surely, there have been many Englander stoves installed with a single pipe within 1' of the wall because their manuals for the smaller stoves SAY it is OK.
  11. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Does this look like it will fit? This is the 5" and not the 8". Snaps in, theoretically.

    [​IMG]
  12. SmokingAndPoking

    SmokingAndPoking Member

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    FYI, I'm the englander guy that designed the stove, wrote the manual and accompanied it through testing. The information I gave you was what was found during testing and I did my best to list it in the manual in a clear fashion.
  13. SmokingAndPoking

    SmokingAndPoking Member

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    We're talking about two different things here everyone.

    The default clearance of 18.0" between single wall chimney connector and unprotected NFPA 211 surfaces is just that, a default value for untested stoves or installations. (The pipe manufacturers list this clearance because they don't possibly know what you're going to use the pipe on, so it keeps them out of trouble.)

    The clearance listed in a manual for a tested and listed solid fuel appliance is a value that was achieved during safety testing. This value overrides the default NFPA 211 clearance, since there is no reason to take a default clearance if you LIST AN APPLIANCE to UL standards.

    If you're going to say that single wall pipe can't be installed closer than 18.0" to a combustible wall because of NFPA 211 than you also have to say that a stove can't be installed closer than 36.0" because that is the NFPA 211 default clearance for wood stoves.
  14. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    So much contradictory info. But if I can get than ring to fit (see pic a couple of posts up) then I can use double wall pipe.
  15. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    I think it needs the proper Metalbest CPA adapter ring for double-wall to be kosher, not a generic single-wall adapter. Look again at the crimped top end of the 6" double-wall pipe. Or better yet, call Selkirk.

    Selkirk Corporation

    Toll Free: 1.800.992.VENT (8368)
    Fax: 1.877.393.4145
    Email:
    sales@selkirkinc.com
    custsvc@selkirkinc.com
    metalbestsupport@selkirkinc.com
  16. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    That's what I posted.

    [​IMG]

    Tried calling and got no one. Wrote an email and have not heard back.
  17. SmokingAndPoking

    SmokingAndPoking Member

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    Well, as the designer of the stove you're buying and the person who wrote the manuals you're reading, I tried to be as clear as possible. Have fun!
  18. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Corie, do you know if Meltalbest DSP will slip over/in the flue collar or is an adapter needed per pipe mfg?
  19. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    You need to take this up with Mike Holton (see his posts above). He claims to work for Englander and has an englander e-mail address.

    Maybe this is what I need:

    http://www.dynamitebuys.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=6572

    [​IMG]
  20. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    That's 8".

    Corie worked at Englander when he designed this stove. There is no one that knows it better.
  21. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    OK, now I'm thinking about a cheap hearth pad. The 17-VL needs a 3'x3' and and R value of 0.5. Gold Bond 5/8ths gypsum board meets that. How about covering it with rolled aluminum flashing? Is there any way to get a solid 3'x3' piece of metal? How would you edge it?
  22. Renovation

    Renovation New Member

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    IMO, when the person who designed the stove gives you personal advice, he doesn't need to take it up with anyone. But that's just me.

    Thanks for your stove and your help, Corie!
  23. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    Well, shouldn't the other employee be in trouble for contradicting the designer? Seems like the boss should straighten this out.

    How about a sheet of gypsum board covered with glass? You could paint the bottom of the glass some cool color and it would be perfectly smooth.

    BTW, is fiberglass allowed to touch a Class A chimney pipe if there's no paper on it?
  24. precaud

    precaud Minister of Fire

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    IMO, it would be nice if said designer would do more than just come here to collect praise... he's been asked several questions lately and refused to answer any of them. Odd behavior toward a group that essentially got him connected into the industry.
  25. Renovation

    Renovation New Member

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    I guess you missed:

    I found that very direct and helpful--Corie cleared up a confusing issue that has been raised and discussed many times here. I am very grateful to get such personal help from a stove's designer. But that's just me.

    Why criticize someone who is volunteering time just to help folks? All it does is drive them away.

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