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Looking for low-cost, hi-style wood stove

Post in 'The Hearth Room - Wood Stoves and Fireplaces' started by raderator, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    This would be on the lower floor center of a 1700sf house. Also, anything to cool down the stove would be a plus. I'm kinda paranoid.

    What did you use for a stove pipe? I'm thinking of this:

    http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/65264/

    Did you get a tax credit for the chimney and pipe? I wonder if I can claim the fan.

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  2. 48rob

    48rob Feeling the Heat

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    I believe the pipe can be included in the cost of installing the stove, since the manufacturer recommends it...

    I haven't filed yet, but hope so.

    I used double wall pipe, to keep clearances to a minimum, and keep the smoke/gasses hotter to reduce the amount of creosote produced.
    I also read here that the smoke, when combined with moisture, is very corrosive to plain single wall steel pipe, and that the double wall uses stainless for the interior pipe, which means I don't have to buy new "cheap" pipe every couple years.

    Why are you paranoid about "cooling off the stove"?

    It is, in my limited experience, very easy to keep the stove/fire from getting out of control and becoming too hot, if that is your concern.

    At 1700 sq' it would probably be a good thing to keep the stove running at 450-500 degrees, something that is easy enough, and not too hot for the stove.

    Rob
  3. raderator

    raderator New Member

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  4. 48rob

    48rob Feeling the Heat

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    I used Selkirk double wall pipe, as it was available locally.
    http://www.selkirkcorp.com/supervent/Product.aspx?id=58

    It does not "snap" together, rather the pieces slide into each other, and then after the install is finished, the sections are screwed together.
    It is very easy to remove a section or two for cleaning.
    I used a telescoping section that is about 12" together, and 16" or so extended.

    You may be thinking of the single wall pipe that "snaps" together to form the tube, as it is sold loose, so many sections can be shipped together.
    Double wall pipe comes assembled, usually rivited together and the inner tube is stainless steel, to be resistant to the corrosive effects of the smoke/creosote mix.

    Rob
  5. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    I have found nothing in two Lowe's and one HD that looks like it would work. Amazing, considering everyone sells wood stoves. And all I have is a normal, flat 8' ceiling.
  6. raderator

    raderator New Member

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  7. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Single wall pipe requires 18" from the wall, no exceptions. It will be hot and need either a wall shield, pipe shields or just put in a double-wall telescoping pipe.
  8. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    Then why does the Englander manual say 12"?
  9. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    It doesn't say that for the pipe, just for the stove. It's poor documentation. I'm guessing that the 12" from the flue collar is what the stove was tested at for safe stove clearances. This doesn't change the requirement for single-wall pipe clearance. It's 18" from combustibles unless shielded. Though technically you could use single wall pipe if it had pipe shields installed and then the clearance of 12" would be achievable.

    Call Englander Tech Support tomorrow for an explanation and to let them know the documentation is misleading. You're not the first one to run into this. Englander should clarify asap. It's confusing and could be dangerous. Here's a shot of the website where you are buying the pipe. Note that the Englander docs do say: ALWAYS install vent pipe in strict adherence to the instructions and clearances included with your venting system.

    PS: Is Metal Fab the same brand as the class A pipe this is connecting to?

    Attached Files:

  10. raderator

    raderator New Member

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  11. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Yep, that's for the stove, not the pipe. You can install it at 12" with single wall if the pipe is shielded, so technically it's correct. But most decent manuals would have a footnote telling you this.

    Not sure about the Amesti. I haven't looked at that manual. Are the instructions even based on US or Canadian code?
  12. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    Gives distance for stove and pipe. I don't see a Metalbest 8" to 6" adapter anywhere so it doesn't matter what brand pipe I use. Good luck removing a double-walled telescoping pipe to clean the flue. There are two surfaces to stick.
  13. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    I have double-wall, telescoping on two stoves. No big deal, slides easy. Here's the docs. And also the Metalbest increaser for their DSP pipe.

    Attached Files:

  14. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    Oh OK, they call it an increaser instead of an adapter like everyone else. Thanks.

    Edit: $73!!!!!!!

    This is dumb. 6" is 6" for everyone. The flue is 30 yrs old. The universe has expanded a lot since then.

    Edit: There's no simple way to do this with double pipe. I'm gonna use stainless single pipe and either use wall protection or a reflector on the pipe.
  15. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    It's a double-wall increaser, designed for double-wall pipe to maintain the closer clearances afforded by this pipe.

    Will you need to offset the pipe from the stove to align with the current ceiling connection to the class A pipe? What's the distance from center of the current 8" ceiling support box to the wall? Can you post a picture of the support box?
  16. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    I'll takes pics when my brother gives me my camera back. He took it skiing, like one snow covered hill looks any different from another.

    So, assuming Metalbestos hasn't changed anything in 30 yrs, this should work for $233.25 shipped:


    http://www.ventingpipe.com/metalbest-dspi68-6-to-8-stove-pipe-increaser/p1069039

    [​IMG]

    http://www.ventingpipe.com/metalbest-dsp6tl-6-telescoping-stove-pipe-adjusts-from-38-to-68/p1069015

    [​IMG]

    I'll have to check all the measurements. BTW, does the ceiling plate pop off? It's circular. Modern installations just have a square box sticking down. Gotta make sure this adpter will fit on what's there.
  17. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    Sounds good. The reason for the question is that if the support box connection is far enough away from the wall that the single wall clearance requirement of 18" is honored, then you may be able to do an offset off the stove to the correct position. If so, that would mean that only the pipe that is <18" away from the wall would need to be shielded. Or the stove could be moved away from the wall ~16" and your original plan should work.
  18. raderator

    raderator New Member

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  19. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    That's why I wanted to see what is up there. Are you sure it is Metalbest? Some companies offer round support boxes, we have one by Simpson with a circular trim ring. Does the class A go up through an attic where you could check to see if there is a label on the pipe? If so, copy the mfg data, including the UL tested rating from the pipe.
  20. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    Already covered in previous posts. Flue is Metalbestos SS 85EL. All clearances are 2" as per sticker except the one going thru the roof deck. Gonna have to widen it. When I get my camera back, I'll go up and take pics.
  21. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    How far is the support box's 8" pipe opening from the wall.
  22. raderator

    raderator New Member

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  23. begreen

    begreen Mooderator Staff Member

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    OK, then the choices are either shielded single-wall or double wall pipe as the connector. Double wall will need an adapter and that is where I am uncertain due to the age of the pipe. The current Metalbest system uses an adapter (T-CPA) and a DSP finishing band between the ceiling box and the DSP pipe. "If" this will work for the old pipe the list from top to bottom would be: 8" adapter, 6" to 8" increaser, 6" telescoping pipe, (stove adapter?) stove.

    If you want to go the single wall route, then you'll need to get a couple pipe shielding kits that cover the wall side of the pipe from the stove to the ceiling box.
    http://www.northlineexpress.com/item/5CO-54120/HomeSaver-Stovepipe-Shield
  24. stoveguy2esw

    stoveguy2esw Minister of Fire

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    ok, here's the poop on the clearance discrpancy:

    the measurements listed in the manual are for the stove itself and how close it can be with a certain pipe system "ie" siingle wall pipe. this means in order to get the stove to teh clearance allowed FOR THE STOVE the pipe would be closer than the 18 inch minimum requirement. so, in order to achieve that clearance the pipe must be shielded per NFPA211. the pipe CAN NOT be that close otherwise.

    im going to see about getting a clarification added to the manual to state this in explicit terms. but in the mean time to the OP, do not mount the stove to allow 12 inch clearance without shielding the pipe with a wall mounted protector as specified in the NFPA211
  25. raderator

    raderator New Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up. Talked to the inspector for our town and he said 18". Looks like an old ceiling plate designed for an 8" single wall pipe. I'll have a pic tomorrow. What's a cheap form of wall protection that doesn't look bad and which can also be used on the floor?

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