This thread was about settings for max temp not flue temps, dont blame me. :cheese:madison said:
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Todd said:
I'll dig up the thread after dinner, but IIRC it was only the overshooting, new Condar probes that were showing a 25% higher difference. Comparing a cat stove performance is not having all things equal. Perhaps a more meaningful comparison would be flue temp in a cat stove, before the cat is engaged? I saw the same spike on reload and fresh starts on the Castine as I see on the T6. You get a bloom of wood gas on first ignition which rapidly settles down. The other factor is turbulence in the pipe. A probe is in the heart of the flue gas, while a surface thermometer may or may not be reading the hottest surface temp depending on the swirl of the hot gases within the flue pipe.
edit: thread link https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/51880/
No problem, your thread concerns running a soapstone cat. All stoves are not created nor run equally.
I don't know this stove's structure, but I am amazed that you are seeing 600 surface pipe temps and not getting that stove top at 700. Is there ANY possibility that a baffle or something inside the stove is not installed properly/ misaligned?
This is with a stovetop of about 500 degrees. Getting the stove to 700 may may see the surface temps hit 500. Cruising at 700-750 the stove pipe temps will be about 450 surface. The probe, well lets just say that boy is misleading. This is measured 18 inches up the stove pipe. How high are you measuring your temps?
pen
This is with a stovetop of about 500 degrees. Getting the stove to 700 may may see the surface temps hit 500. Cruising at 700-750 the stove pipe temps will be about 450 surface. The probe, well lets just say that boy is misleading. This is measured 18 inches up the stove pipe. How high are you measuring your temps?
pen
pen said:
Thanks Pen,
Wow, if that means what I think it means, that's kind of eye-poppping.
Do you think this is relevant to the "Tonight, I miss my old stove..(BKK questions) " thread, where guys aren't getting enough heat out of their stoves--because they dial them down to keep their Condor probes from telling them their cat is over heating? (pant, pant, pant)
Just a thought.
Pen, I often have wondered about something being amiss in the stove but have not had it apart yet as the stove was new last spring. If I load it up with oak on a hot bed of coals the flue and stove top come up about the same but it starts to slow down about 600 or so, if I load it with lessor wood (ash elm) the flue takes off like a rocket and can hit 600 wplhile the stove is still at 400. The stove works great (other than getting the temp up) and it seems like the draft is good but I wonder if it needs more draw to get the stove hotter. If it would warm up I would take the baffle out, I think there is a deflector plate in there, I wonder if any one with a summit has had a problem with that.
oldspark said:
My stove and setup run the same way. Do you get any smoke in the room when you open the door? I will if I open it over half way. I don't ever seem to have draft issues when burning though. When I open my door wide enought the smoke will come out and go straight back over the stove top like it is stuck to the stove top. Doesn't seem to go up but straight back across the stove.
lillyrat, i usually do not get any smoke in the room but if I leave the door open when I load it and the load starts to smoke it will come back into the room some, I quit doing it that way so not a problem any more. Interesting that your stove runs like mine, I think the stove runs perfect except for the flue temps and not being able to get the stove top at 700 or so easily. Seems like more draft would make the flue temps worse but I think it wounld get higher stove top temps. After the stove settles in the flue temps are about 100 to 150 lower than stove top which sounds normal, just can not get the higher stove top temps with out the high flue temps.
oldspark said:
Sounds like our stoves behave the same. Would be nice to hear from some summit owners and see what kind of stovetops they are getting and what their flue temps are. I don't see how you can get a summit to 650 stovetop without overfiring the flue.
Another thing that always amazed me was I can hit 500 stove top on sticks and very small splitts but can not get 700 on a full load.
RenovationGeorge said:
here is some suggested reading on that very topic.
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/51149/
pen
Oldspark,
How tall is your chimney? Maybe it is too much draft sucking the heat up the chimney? Maybe your chimney is walking a fine line and with a full load it creates a stronger draft than your stove likes? Did you try a pipe damper? Are you running wide open with a full load at first, maybe try 1/2?
How tall is your chimney? Maybe it is too much draft sucking the heat up the chimney? Maybe your chimney is walking a fine line and with a full load it creates a stronger draft than your stove likes? Did you try a pipe damper? Are you running wide open with a full load at first, maybe try 1/2?
Have to admit that I am puzzled over this whole situation. But back to the question oldspark wanted answered, our draft is marked 0-4. Our most used setting is approximately .75 but there have been a few times we go higher to get more heat. Yesterday that happened (but it does not happen very often). We let the stove get really low and it got a little cool in here. I put wood in and after engaging the cat I turned the draft setting to about 1.5 and left it there until the stove got to 500. Then I set it back to .75. The stove top topped out a bit over 600.
Then last night I added wood when the stove top was just under 400 (usually we wait until a bit lower). It took only a very few minutes for the flue temperature to reach 500 and that is when I set the cat....at .5. Normally the night setting is at .75 the same as the day setting but I do go by the amount of flame in the firebox. I have in the past set it to .5 and the flame will die out but I also have noticed that the total burn time varies very little when no flame vs. having flame in the firebox.
Perhaps it is because of the cat but there are times I can have the setting at .25 and even a few times closed but the stove top still got to 700, however, that is not normal.
Then last night I added wood when the stove top was just under 400 (usually we wait until a bit lower). It took only a very few minutes for the flue temperature to reach 500 and that is when I set the cat....at .5. Normally the night setting is at .75 the same as the day setting but I do go by the amount of flame in the firebox. I have in the past set it to .5 and the flame will die out but I also have noticed that the total burn time varies very little when no flame vs. having flame in the firebox.
Perhaps it is because of the cat but there are times I can have the setting at .25 and even a few times closed but the stove top still got to 700, however, that is not normal.
you know. People always say those danged things cool down the flue too much. If your flue is always too hot, then this seems to be a reasonable solution.pen said:
being a psychologist, I work with a lot of people on meds that are prescribed not necessarily because of their intended effects, but because of side effects. This kinda could be the same deal. A bad side effect for someone could prove to be beneficial to the next guy.
Agree with DBoon. Loaded 100%, heat well, close all the way. I would overfire in some cases if I didn't close it all the way when it's really cranking
I thought maybe it was too strong but I believe it is too week for getting the stove up to 700 or so, seems counter intuitive in a way but the the specs on the chimney are marginal, 18ft of round 7 1/4 clay liner inside, two 90's (thimble and elbow) with 4 ft of single wall stove pipe. It draws well but if I had a straight up 6 inch chimney I think I would gain a lot of draw getting the stove hotter. I have total control over the flue and stove top temp now, when I reduce the primary air it stops dead in its tracks unlike others who have more draft and problems with over fire, that part I like as I can let the flue get up to 600 or so and keep it from going higher.Todd said:
I have tried the 1/2 open and just slows it down but still the same results.
Lillyrat what is your chimney like?
pen said:
Seems like a Summit conference may be in order!
But before that, remove the flue thermometer. This is a test, you get to put it back once the test is done. Then, when reloading, put a couple 18" 2x4s in the reloaded wood. Leave the air open until the fire is going well, then drop down the air until the flame start getting lazy. Let the fire regain momentum then reduce the air again, just to where the flames get lazy. Watch stove top temps.
If that doesn't get the stovetop >650F and you are absolutely sure (checked thrice) that the wood is really dry, I'd try adding a temporary pipe extension of 3-4' onto the flue.
Spark, if you are running your blower, i can attest that the stove top temps will rarely reach 700. the blower is removing heat from the steel topped exterior of the stove, and distributing it to the room - by design. turn the blower off and observe the stove top temp-it will rise within minutes. If you are seeing 600 with the blower on max, i would estimate you are actually 750 + on the stove top.
Another consideration, and i think you realize it, but the temperature of the steel mass of the stove body will lag the air temp within the stack, again the blower will exacerbate this lag.
I personally would be curious if your stack temps vary with the blower on/off. My guess is no, but, am curious.
Regarding the stove top temp rise with small spilts, i would guess this is radiant influenced, and short lived.
Another consideration, and i think you realize it, but the temperature of the steel mass of the stove body will lag the air temp within the stack, again the blower will exacerbate this lag.
I personally would be curious if your stack temps vary with the blower on/off. My guess is no, but, am curious.
Regarding the stove top temp rise with small spilts, i would guess this is radiant influenced, and short lived.
All my temps as stated in these posts are without the fan, I have learned what info is needed. Flue temps are the same fan off or on.
My chimney setup is 2.5 feet up into a 90 then a 3 or so foot run through thimble then straight up 20 feet. Seems to draft like crazy. I typically reload on 1/2 air setting to keep things from going nuclear which causes flue temps to shoot up. My installer supposedly has a call in to Summit??? mostly about the smoke issue I am having when the door is open. What really makes no sense is having good draft and still having smoke in the house with the door open. I have a 16 to 20 foot ceilings throughout the house, very open plan with a loft. Never have an issue with draft when fire is going good. Can turn draft all the way down and still have good secondary burn for overnight.
That was interesting, I walked it up like BG said, 2- 2x6's, 2- 2x2, and a piece of scrap all 18 inches long, smaller adjustments than I normaly do, I did hit 600 (IR testor) and the flue temps stayed in check but not sure why, the draft is a little slow today (snowing) so maybe I am not that far off of normal (yea right), I will try adjusting a regular load of wood tonight to see if I can get it to act the same way.
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