Newbie-- Looking for big glass & warmth for 2700 sq ft home
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Tegbert
Feeling the Heat
My wife originally wanted a stove that we could cook on and we went looking at some. I then convinced her that if the power did go out and we needed to cook that I would just use the bbq or our camp chef stove/pizza oven or even go in our 5th wheel and cook in there. We have many other options to cook so she changed her mind. Which is good cause she fell in love with the lopi rockport (smaller version of the cape cod) which like you said probably wouldn't be wise to cook on except maybe heat water.
I guess my whole point of this is I didn't want to drag stuff from the kitchen to the fireplace to cook and possibly make a mess. It's just something to think about with really the only downfall is being outside (if using the bbq or camp chef) in inclement weather but since it will be me cooking then she has no problem with that.
The stove we were looking at that had a cooktop was a jotul though. Not sure which one but it was similar to a friend of mines stove that he does cook on with good success just takes a little longer from what he says.
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Ashful
Minister of Fire
72F - 76F in this joint right now. Two BK Ashford 30's, loaded about 30 hours ago, heating 6660 sq.ft. of 250 year old pre-Revolutionary house. So much for "no heat long burns," Woody?
Las word was that they are supplemental to an oil boiler perking along with the stoves. That's understandable with a very large uninsulated house.
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/firewood-location.157396/#post-2111902
https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/firewood-location.157396/#post-2111902
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Yep, when we see our winter nights in the teens and twenties, the boiler pulls a lot of weight. However, it's only 40's here today, so the stoves are doing it alone.
Yes that is a pretty stove, he did a great paint job!
Tegbert: Yes the Jotul we are considering we could cook on top of. Probably use a trivet as not to scratch it. But my thought is..... the 'what if' situations. If we had a long term outage for instance......thinking of things we would need. Water, food and heat. Have the hand pump for water on the well if needed. Have the wood heat (soon) and cooking for me would need to have option on the stove. Because in the case that you could not go to town for some reason I would want the option of being set up in a real emergency. Minus the generator.....minus gas....etc. Real down and out situation. I live close enough could even go to the woods for more wood if needed in a pinch. But thinking real dire situation..... Because some day that may happen and I want to be as prepared as we can be. If it never happens, great. =) So that is what I am thinking. And eventually the propane would not be enough.... so cooking on a wood stove I think is my favorite option for that situation. We have a outdoor fire pit too, but if it was 20 degrees outside that may not be the best situation. We have a great room so for us, the kitchen is very nearby.
Ashful: Sounds like your BK's are doing just fine. That is great. Thanks for sharing that. =)
Hoping to make a decision on Jotul or Woodstock tomorrow. =)
Happy Thanksgiving to all.....=) It is windy and cool today in Oregon....rain on the way. That is how we stay green. =) No place like Oregon.....it is so beautiful here! I am biased but just throwing it out there. =)
Tegbert: Yes the Jotul we are considering we could cook on top of. Probably use a trivet as not to scratch it. But my thought is..... the 'what if' situations. If we had a long term outage for instance......thinking of things we would need. Water, food and heat. Have the hand pump for water on the well if needed. Have the wood heat (soon) and cooking for me would need to have option on the stove. Because in the case that you could not go to town for some reason I would want the option of being set up in a real emergency. Minus the generator.....minus gas....etc. Real down and out situation. I live close enough could even go to the woods for more wood if needed in a pinch. But thinking real dire situation..... Because some day that may happen and I want to be as prepared as we can be. If it never happens, great. =) So that is what I am thinking. And eventually the propane would not be enough.... so cooking on a wood stove I think is my favorite option for that situation. We have a outdoor fire pit too, but if it was 20 degrees outside that may not be the best situation. We have a great room so for us, the kitchen is very nearby.
Ashful: Sounds like your BK's are doing just fine. That is great. Thanks for sharing that. =)
Hoping to make a decision on Jotul or Woodstock tomorrow. =)
Happy Thanksgiving to all.....=) It is windy and cool today in Oregon....rain on the way. That is how we stay green. =) No place like Oregon.....it is so beautiful here! I am biased but just throwing it out there. =)
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Here's another factor to consider, between your chosen brands:
Jotul: they force you to deal with your dealer for all issues, and in my experience the dealers don't often know much more than you. If you have a problem with your stove or dealer, tough luck, you cannot speak to anyone who will help you at Jotul. The only way to even get they their receptionist and to their tech support folks, is to lie and say you're the dealer. I have owned three Jotuls, so been there, done that.
Woodstock: exactly the opposite of Jotul. Absolutely no local dealer support, but you can call them any time.
I like Woodstock's support model better than Jotul's, but folks may have different preferences. Ideal, is a company that offers both dealer and factory support, and there are several that do, but not these two brands.
Jotul: they force you to deal with your dealer for all issues, and in my experience the dealers don't often know much more than you. If you have a problem with your stove or dealer, tough luck, you cannot speak to anyone who will help you at Jotul. The only way to even get they their receptionist and to their tech support folks, is to lie and say you're the dealer. I have owned three Jotuls, so been there, done that.
Woodstock: exactly the opposite of Jotul. Absolutely no local dealer support, but you can call them any time.
I like Woodstock's support model better than Jotul's, but folks may have different preferences. Ideal, is a company that offers both dealer and factory support, and there are several that do, but not these two brands.
Woodstock is a great company with fantastic customer service . . . and they make a great product. If I didn't love my existing stove so much I really would have a Woodstock in the house.
Jotul is a great company with very good reps in the stores (at least in my limited dealing with the two stores) . . . and they make a great product. Although to tell the truth, other than buying the stove and buying some gaskets and chewing the fat with them about stoves, heating, etc. that's the only reason I have been in the woodstove shop (which I guess says something about the quality of their products.)
I think anyone going with either of these two premium woodstove companies really cannot go wrong as long as they do a little research ahead of time for what they need/want and expect in a woodstove.
Jotul is a great company with very good reps in the stores (at least in my limited dealing with the two stores) . . . and they make a great product. Although to tell the truth, other than buying the stove and buying some gaskets and chewing the fat with them about stoves, heating, etc. that's the only reason I have been in the woodstove shop (which I guess says something about the quality of their products.)
I think anyone going with either of these two premium woodstove companies really cannot go wrong as long as they do a little research ahead of time for what they need/want and expect in a woodstove.
Ashful thank you for that info. Yes I have already dealt with this with jotul. I called them. They did have a tech person call me after I left him a msg. So that was ok. My local dealer fortunately we like a lot (one reason we chose this brand, we wanted to buy from this dealer)
With that said,dealing with Woodstock (I've had questions) has been really a good experience too. They don't mind answering my questions at all.
However we need to see a fresh air intake so I'm not sure if they can help us with that. This may be the deciding factor for us. My hubby thinks it will look awful. Nobody here has been able to help us with photos which tells me prob no one has installed a fresh air intake on it. Prob for the same reasons. Strange place to have the intake!
Still hoping someone will post photo.
With that said,dealing with Woodstock (I've had questions) has been really a good experience too. They don't mind answering my questions at all.
However we need to see a fresh air intake so I'm not sure if they can help us with that. This may be the deciding factor for us. My hubby thinks it will look awful. Nobody here has been able to help us with photos which tells me prob no one has installed a fresh air intake on it. Prob for the same reasons. Strange place to have the intake!
Still hoping someone will post photo.
Jake thank you so much for your review and experience with both companies. I'm assuming you have a jotul. I completely agree. Think they are both fantastic stoves. Well built. Either stove I don't think we'd go wrong with either choice. Thanks for saying so. Appreciate it!
Hmm I tired digging around for some PH's with outside air adapters but I can't find a single person or even image on google of anyone who has used it. Is there a particular reason you want to, very tight house, or just for a tiny increase in efficiency? Most modern stoves don't have very decorative back, lots of seams, parts, bolts, and controls back there, so I wouldn't let the outside air kit really dissuade you that much. Your best bet is probably asking woodstock if they have an image. Remember you got a big azzed pipe coming out the top or back already, a second much smaller pipe shouldn't be much of a big deal, especially if you go through the extra effort of getting something black. I use an outside air kit on my pellet stove where it is much more needed, but on my woodstock I do not not, the amount of air it uses is far less and my house is as leaky as they come.
I really liked the Progress, I think it's my favorite Woodstock as far as appearances go (fireview too but that more ornate look isn't for everyone). I wanted the extra capacity and long burn of the Ideal Steel though, but would have bought the Progress no-doubt had it been the size of the I.S. and had it's better air control. The Progress has an even better ash handling I think than the I.S., the grate is basically the entire floor and the ash pan about the same footprint as the floor. And I really like the side-loading.
Nice big full floor ash grate
That is a big pan!
You get a lid too, which can be inserted onto the pan before you take the ash pan out so no mess, and you can do like I and many others have done and order a second pan from Woodstock so you can just swap pans out instantly, and take your time dumping the full one. Both pan and lid are stainless steel so no worry about rusting.
I like also how the stone on the top flips up (or removes entirely) to reveal the cooktop. The inevitable splatters and stains get covered back up by the nice looking soaptstone. I have lots of little splatters on top of my painted steel stove.
I really liked the Progress, I think it's my favorite Woodstock as far as appearances go (fireview too but that more ornate look isn't for everyone). I wanted the extra capacity and long burn of the Ideal Steel though, but would have bought the Progress no-doubt had it been the size of the I.S. and had it's better air control. The Progress has an even better ash handling I think than the I.S., the grate is basically the entire floor and the ash pan about the same footprint as the floor. And I really like the side-loading.
Nice big full floor ash grateThat is a big pan!
You get a lid too, which can be inserted onto the pan before you take the ash pan out so no mess, and you can do like I and many others have done and order a second pan from Woodstock so you can just swap pans out instantly, and take your time dumping the full one. Both pan and lid are stainless steel so no worry about rusting.
I like also how the stone on the top flips up (or removes entirely) to reveal the cooktop. The inevitable splatters and stains get covered back up by the nice looking soaptstone. I have lots of little splatters on top of my painted steel stove.
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Wow thank you for all the photos
That is great! Yes I love love love that grate and the ashpan.
So in Oregon there is two options for our tax credit in regards to the outside air....
1. A duct to the outside directly connected to the stove (this is the states preferred method)
2. A duct to the outside which terminates at the hearth or in the room where the stove is located.
So my question to you guys is this......if we had a duct under the stove that went down into the crawlspace and we just had a grate on the top of it under the stove on the hearth would that suffice for the outside air needs of the Progress Hybrid? Would it cause issues with smoke if it isn't actually hooked up to the stove?
I don't want a pipe out the back of the stove if not needed.
Let me know what you think....
That is great! Yes I love love love that grate and the ashpan. So in Oregon there is two options for our tax credit in regards to the outside air....
1. A duct to the outside directly connected to the stove (this is the states preferred method)
2. A duct to the outside which terminates at the hearth or in the room where the stove is located.
So my question to you guys is this......if we had a duct under the stove that went down into the crawlspace and we just had a grate on the top of it under the stove on the hearth would that suffice for the outside air needs of the Progress Hybrid? Would it cause issues with smoke if it isn't actually hooked up to the stove?
I don't want a pipe out the back of the stove if not needed.
Let me know what you think....
Outside air terminating on the hearth would probably work fine. You might want it ducted to the stove if the crawlspace vents are exposed to strong gusts to reduce air infiltration into the room.
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Of course, cold air is pretty scarce out there in the PNW.
That was my first thought....cold feet!
Of course, cold air is pretty scarce out there in the PNW.
Ok that is good to know. I spoke to the Woodstock company and they said I may want to be able to cover it since air will come into the house. It is a stupid thing I think that the state requires this! Crazy is a better word for it! lol.
But jumping through hoops if we buy this stove for the nearly 1100 tax credit.....gotta do what cha gotta do to get the moola....=)
But jumping through hoops if we buy this stove for the nearly 1100 tax credit.....gotta do what cha gotta do to get the moola....=)
Yeah well we get into the 20's sometimes but that is rare.....and doesn't stay in the 20's. We have plenty of drafts in our house. Built in 2008 but not a tight home with four french doors off the back of the house. (we didn't build the house.....) Not sure what the people who had it built were thinking! Four sets of french doors, really? Someone was claustrophobic! lol.
Anyway, our normal winters are 30s at night.
Anyway, our normal winters are 30s at night.
Get a standard 4x12" duct take off and put in a 4 x 12" register with air control. On windy days just close the vent.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/12-in-x-4-in-to-6-in-Universal-Register-Box-RB12X4X6/100173649
http://www.homedepot.com/p/4-in-x-12-in-Steel-Floor-Register-in-Brass-SPH412-A/202074577
I am not up to speed on OR codes any more..................but, you should make sure that the fresh air to the hearth is NOT just for a stove that does not have the proper connection point. Knowing how OR codes usually work, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case. And, then again, the interpretation may be up to the local bldg. inspector -- I've ran into that nasty a couple of times in my life -- bldg. inspectors don't always understand plain English interpretation, nor do they particularly care sometimes.
Yeah good point bcrtops. Not sure which way is the right way. But if we installed what we plan to install I think this should be close to code?
I don't really want to use a huge register because then it's more drafty.
Not sure if we are thinking right or not.
I don't really want to use a huge register because then it's more drafty.
Not sure if we are thinking right or not.
I'm not sure why this is required if the stove will work fine without it. That's why I wondered if there would be some way to determine up front if the stove will vent well without the OAK. Is an inspection required after installation, or do the installers comply with the requirement to protect themselves? If you are handy, you can install the stove yourself, if you are handy, detail-oriented, and research the requirements well. Set it up for the OAK, then if inspection isn't required and you don't need it, don't use it. I'm a scoff-law though, YMMV.
We can't install ourselves. Have a installer. I think we are required to have a inspection in Oregon. We are venting it under the stove we think now. Supposedly it doesn't matter too much having it attached to stove. Woodstock didn't make it sound that way. Said most people don't use the OAK's.
Yeah we hate all the law stuff too.....grrr drives us crazy. Hoping Trump changes things a bit.....oops probably shouldn't have said that. =) One can hope right? Govt doesn't need to run us! Enough said....lol.
Yeah we hate all the law stuff too.....grrr drives us crazy. Hoping Trump changes things a bit.....oops probably shouldn't have said that. =) One can hope right? Govt doesn't need to run us! Enough said....lol.
Not sure you got my point.
OR codes may require a hookup to the stove, if the stove is designed for it.
OR codes may just allow fresh/outside air to the hearth in cases where the stove has no connection point designed into it.
And, it may just be up to the local bldg. dept./inspector how this goes!?! (Interpretation).
In other words, talk to the installer and/or the bldg. dept. to find out if you can just get outside air to the hearth (before planning to do this w/o a direct hookup on a stove that is designed for it.)
I did speak with the dept of energy here in oregon (people who process the applications for tax credit) and they told me that there were two options. The ones I listed above. So yes the connection to the hearth is a option. Not their 'preferred' option but a option listed in the rules none the less. And the inspectors go off the dept of energy rules. So I am thinking it is ok. But we will have it installed in the hearth so that if we had to install to the stove we can do that.
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