NEWBIE NEEDS HELP-WOOD BURNING INSERT

[fredarm]

Diane--I have the little PE, the Vista Insert, heading into its fourth winter. It's a great little stove (obviously way too small for your needs, but it's what fit in my fireplace). It's been easy to use (one lever to control the draft and that's it) and puts out a lot of heat for its size. I've been very happy with it. Incidentially, my brother in law has a house in Vermont with a Winterwarm Large and I have had fun playing with it when I've been up there (he has no clue about stoves). It really cranks out the heat but with 3 levers to control it (draft, damper, and I've never been able to figure out the third) it's definitely more complicated than a PE insert.

 

[piejam]

Fredarm-Welcome aboard my lil saga..the winter warm levers are for air control, fan operation and the damper. Trust me if i can work that baby anyone can. She was a great little insert! Size is not always important to me. It's whether or not the application is suitable. For instance, right now I am looking at the Avalon Perfect Fit Large. She has a 2.9 cu ft box..Her characteristics are similar to my beloved iron maiden(VC)..I started to think how I am going to use my new insert. It will not be a primary source.

Since I am in in 2900 sq ft house and don't use all the bedrooms, there is no need to heat all the rooms to a toasty temp. Plus I need a unit to have a shorter ctc(clearance to combustibles-thanks Rick) and hearth clearance. My house has large windows. 2 6x4's & 3 2.5x4's upstairs. 6 6x3's downstairs that face the south.

Now the fire breathin dragons here will go to the max..For me it may be overkill..If I can catch this baby on sale I'll save some $$$...Now I realize being a flush mount isn't as effective as a unit that is extended a few inches onto the hearth..My hearth is 18" and I really don't want to modify. I figure I can put booster fans in the air ducts throughout the rooms I use the most...

So you see its not just about size but how the appliance will be utilized in my settings..Besides my home is contemporary and the Perfect fit or the fx elite 33 will complement the house. I may sell the house in a few years. Long Island, New York taxes are ridiculous. For me 12k a year! Ouch Now I have to research if there is any negative issues with the above 2 units. Sorry for the long post

Ok guys feel free to chime in..All opins are welcome even if you don't agree!! Thanks

 

[begreen]

A difference amongst the stoves mentioned is that the Lopi Declaration and Avalon Perfect Fit are flush units. They need the blower running to produce good heat. The opposite is the PE Summit which is designed so that it will convect even with the blower off. If the power goes off for extended periods in winter, this might be an important difference.

 

[piejam]

BeGreen-Appreciate the input. Think I may be screwed with the Summit..My hearth is floor level but the firebox on the existing setup is not. Bottom of the box is about 3" above the hearth.Got down on my belly under a soapstone support & measured across the bricks. approx 34.5" width. Wouldn't want to play around cutting the structure. I know you are right about the power. When my VC was fired up and no power it was still running pretty darn hot. Hell dh & I didn't mind sleeping on the couch or the floor in front of it!

I would like a large glass view. The avalon comes up a little short. One hell of a unit. I do like it though. Problem is the ctc. Smaller units have better clearances for me. The fireplace room has no wall space & cable connection for tv/video are in the corner next to it. Room has an archway, 3 big windows and a half wall..Mfg's certainly want their premium for these flush units. Sticker shock. When i negotiate a price I'll walk, say see you next spring. If dealer is hungry he/she just might split the difference. No leverage due to prime/MSRP time. A spring purchase would enable a fuel delivery now and I'll be set for a few years. You guys taught me that. Just hate to lose this season.

Never realized so many choices and how beautiful. Most units are traditional in appearance. Room cries contemporary but function should rule right? Trying to find a balance. Gotta tell fossil the next time I find a website with info I should pm him first. Luckily the short video's were ok. Just wanted to give something back. My evaluation is in 24hrs. Got a feeling dealer will try to sell a Lennox Elite e260 or Clydesdale. I really would like a made in USA epa product with Lifetime Warranty. No Chinese parts! Have a great day.

 

[begreen]

Would it be possible to post a picture so that we can see what you are seeing?

Also, have you looked a the Jotul C550 Rockland?

 

[piejam]

I will explore the Jotul c550..Don't have a digital camera. Think a cell phone shot is inadequate. My bff is coming on sat-sun. She has a camera and can help me upload and paste any photo's..That way you don't have to put up with my lengthly posts!! lol...I'm such a dizzy/lizzy. I know Jotal has a terrific reputation. Thought I read they were taken over and not quite the same..Please correct me if I'm wrong.

In your experience, does a hungry beast like the Summit/Olympic function efficiently if you build small fires? Wouldn't a unit would run at its peak if fully loaded? My old vc would heat the whole 1st floor(1500 sq) and the 2nd flr hallway plus 1 bedroom. She was a cast iron cat..Would radiate nicely. These newer flush mounts are steel and without the blower I could be sadly disappointed. Slightly intimidated with a lot of fire power..Need to research what kind of fire extinguishers and how to deal with a chimney flare up..

I would love a cast iron cat stove with a contemporary flair to heat about 2200 sq. I know I have 2900 sq but 3 out of 4 bedrooms not in use. Saw a posi pressure setup and fell in love. Got out of that stove shop in a hurry..It was gorgeous..Like the cat stoves because they run cleaner/ less emissions..Don't think I'll find my dream shot. I saw chatter about how some people dislike the travis industries blowers(noisy)..Hell its a fan and I do expect some noise. People say they are loud on full and can't hear the tv..Each to his own. Thanks for chiming in. I've got one shot at doing this right. With this board's help I will get there.

 

[Dix]

Diane, one of the benefits of the Summit (and all of the larger boxes) IS the ability to build smaller fires and still have them cranking. My PE Pacific can do it as well, but for a shorter length of time.

 

[piejam]

Hello-the guys are great in pointing me to the best current available models. Was just looking at the Jotul c550..Nice. When the dealer comes in 2morrow going to ask him about the ctc issues and what inserts he recommends. I think what's eating at me is this-my vc had a cast iron floor and walls. Todays units seem fragile to me. Between the bricks and the stainless steel tubes, I just don't know. tThink I like panels best! Better be darn careful during loading. reloading is tough when you've got flame. I want less maintenance not more! One shop showed me the baffle on the pe..nice stainless set-up with some sort of blanket sandwiched in between with a pin removal for the sweep. cool. better than others I saw. Maybe the best product around.

After I get the sales pitch, I going to asked if I can retrofit my Winter Warm. Hell can't I take the warped floor to an ironworks shop and have it straightened out? The warp isn't too bad I think. As far as the fans go maybe I can substitute? As long as I don't exceed the amps and power requirements that maybe a can do situation. Maybe vc used the same size fans in the smaller version..would have to check the manuals. Now I still may be able to find a new cat I don't know. Lastly the biggest issue is the floor on the firebox was warped so I would have to have the unit pulled out and check out the primary and secondary chambers for cracks. How am I doing so far? Sounds like a lot of if's I know.

Just a fan of cast iron and cat systems. Oh if only I could change my gender for a few hours and have the strength to do it. Guess I'm just mad that the mfg's are insuring future income with throw away products at a fancy price point! Thanks Dixie for listen to me rant. Heck so i retrofit if possible, what am i afraid of? voiding my non-existant vc warranty? oops. Soon i'll have to can this thread and start a new one if the board is still willing to put up with me Gotta stop these long posts...

 

[fredarm]

Well, I'm enjoying the long posts! You have a flair for writing. Thanks for the lever ID on the WWarm. My bro in law never plugged in the fan, so that's why I couldn't figure our the third lever. The WWarm throws so much heat without the fan that we never used it. Might be worth asking if the WW can be repaired, although it sounds like it needs a lot of work. I'm thinking that the Jotul 550 may be your best bet--cast iron, flush face, large viewing window. It's not a cat stove, but you'll get the hang of running a non-cat pretty quickly. The bricks and tubes aren't really fragile, just don't slam the wood in. The PE baffle is great, but you're right, I don't think the Summit will work with the 3 inch rise from the hearth to the fireplace because it protrudes in front. Maybe you could brick in under the protruding part of the Summit. Just a thought. Happy hunting and let us know what you find out.

Fred

 

[Dix]

Naah, don't can it, I think it will live a long time as "Diane's Thread'


I think, in the end, you're going to be fine.

Call on that wood, yet?

 

[piejam]

Not yet-I know. Want to purchase a moisture meter before I do. I have enough for this year.

Am I off the wall for wanting to fix my old stove? Repair/labor costs will run high. Part availability will be key factor. I could live with a slight warp and no fans. no cat converter no stove...Shoot. I thought about what you said regarding a free standing stove. Masonry firebox is not that tall..Aren't these things design to radiate heat all around. Is that suitable for a fireplace? I see people do but does it make it right?(like the pe fusion)-

I'll create a signature when I decided what I'm doing..retrofit=phoenix! Gabija rules! Thanks Dixie

 

[piejam]

Hi Fred
You are all so kind. Think i screwed up the WW- It was winter and I was crankin up the stove.That air flow control was great during after burn cycles. I'm heart broken about the WW. Never saw any sign of internal chamber glowing red. Think the cat must be shot since the last fire that I remember hovered about 375 on a cold start and wouldn't go higher... I was reading the Clydesdale manual. That's one fussy critter. A lot of warnings about over firing and other procedures.

User error, unseasoned wood=poor performance?. Absolutely. Don't want to be a dumb bunny.

PS-You have a very nice insert Fred. I was looking at it on line. Good show! Never underestimate the power of the petite! Did I mention I'm 5 ft 2"..

 

[fredarm]

Get an estimate on the WW and then make your decision. The cat should be replaceable either from the manuafacturer or an aftermarket supplier. Maybe you can find a used WW for a "parts stove" like some collector car owners keep a parts car. On the other hand, there is something to be said for the peace of mind of a new stove. You're not wondering what's going to go next.

 

[piejam]

Hi Everbody!

Hope your sitting down. My hearth guy just completed the inspection. He said there is no evidence of overfiring! Just old age. He still had the original purchase order from 1993! Said the parts I need are available. He will make a list and email me the prices. Explained older stoves like mine start to run hotter if anything. My little "phoenix" is only running to a max temp 375-400 .So here's the agenda. Cat replacement, floor,grill in firebox, fans, and the three plates in the box that cover the cat. All warps are slight from extended normal usage.

He stated the glass is in great shape and we obviously took great care of it. They will teach me to clean the cat every few months. I wanted to buy a spare but he advised not necessary since corning still does make them. From what he could see chimney is in very good shape. Will dispatch the sweep to clean. I asked him do I have to worry about a cracked casing. Said no. explained the casing is like tongue and groove with masonry fiber cement to seal. Seals do degrade but since I'm not running hot should be ok.

I was so excited that I forgot to ask about the baffle and door gasket. Cannot pull the $ bill by the latch but can on top of the door. Think I will change the gasket anyway since it is the original. They will also do cosmetic surgery as well(some rust). Asked about a new stove he replied "I'll sell you one but the WW just needs Tlc". How sweet it is! He checked my wood piles and said I'm doing everything right. I believe he is an honest man. He installed my WW. He teased me and said I'll still have enough $$ to install my bamboo floor in that room after the repair. Just hope they can get all the parts. Said they can since majestic took over.

Excuse me while I change my jeans lol....Maybe I'll think about installing a zero clearance stove in my master bedroom suite if this works out! Can't wait to be the dame with blue flame...Love you all for your hard word and advice. I really thought this thing was toast...take care. talk to you soon..D- another long post.

 

[piejam]

Hi fredarm

Didn't know who chimed in while I was writing..Can you tell me the longevity of a cast iron unit if maintained and used properly as a secondary heat source? Or maybe from this forum what people have reported?

If the repair effort is reasonable and I can get a couple of seasons--ok by me. If your bro in law uses the fan he will be amazed.

 

[firefighterjake]

Sounds like a bit of good news PieJam.

 

[piejam]

Thanks firefighterjake

It's only good news if the cost is reasonable and come they thru on the parts. I'm happy if I can repair because I do believe the epa will tighten their requirements. That will force mfg's to go back to the boards to redesign a more efficient product. I'm sure the co bean counters will be thrilled. Good news for consumers though.

Can't believe a new thread on the Morso 5660. I did look into it because it is one sweet lookin stove. I got a price of 4100 bucks. product only. Firebox was 1.49 cu..Europeans are different from us..They are more conservative. We look to heat the house, they look to heat spaces. 10 yr warranty and a Danish mfg guarantees replacements parts for 10 yrs after being discontinued..Nice company. VC should take lessons to make dealers life easier.

Gotta go now

 

[piejam]

She's Back

The local hearth shop just quoted me 1000 bucks to fix the winter warm. this includes labor, all the parts i previously mentioned + gasket/sweep. Fred had brought up a valid point about the peace of mind with a new stove..So i"m still thinking. Can reuse the old liner. Everything still in good shape in there. 1000 sounds better than 3500-4k.

It was still operational until the iron screw failed that held the rear plates over the cat inside the firebox. Realize that this is a decision only I can make. Still think I can get a little more use out of the old girl. I know new stoves will only increase in price down the road. I like the cast iron floor in the firebox with the grates and the ash pan under it.

You would be proud of me. Trucker driver dropped off tiles for my kitchen/hallway project ( 600 sq). I tipped him well both times he was here. Tiles came on ash and oak pallets..He told me where to go to pick up free pallets and can use his name...Free kindling baby!

Thank you all for having patience while this lil brat crawls around your site..After viewing some of the other forums, I now realize how many other people you are responding to. You are truly an amazing crowd. Oh how diversified the topics are(was lurking around the ash can-I'd be afraid to post there) Now if I can only figure out how good those seals are on the primary/secondary boxes!

All I want to do is fire up, flop on the sofa and have a cold one........

 

[fredarm]

If you really like the WW and the hearth shop will stand by its work (will they give you a one season warranty on the work?), I see no reason not have the WW repaired. The old VC's are built like tanks (my parents had a Defiant in their ski condo in the 80's) and the WW really throws out the heat, as I can attest from experience. Unless one of the real experts here advises you otherwise, I'd say go with the repair and save your money. We still need to see pics, though....

 

[piejam]

Hi Fred

So glad you chimed in. Wasn't smart enough to ask about a warranty. I normally do. A little wounded and overwhelmed. Bff just advised digital camera out of service. Going to call hearth shop & verify warranty. Decent man probably will. I will get a price on the Jotul. You are correct sir it may be just the right fit if I go new. Some ppl can't justify a 1k repair on an old stove. I found the mgf tag and the darn thing was built in 1989. I installed it in 1993. i know 1k is approx 25-30% of a new? Matter of priority. Need to buy time.

Now DH and I enjoyed using it as a secondary source. Only maybe a week or two in winter for 24/7 use. That's why I can justify a repair. Tank yes that's why I called her my Iron Maiden. Repair price point is good since I do have to retire my primary 2 zone heating system and my budget is 16k. If I had half a brain I would install a tankless water heater while they do the heating unit. More $$-Yuck. These are the reasons why I'm looking to retrofit. Would like a new but current products to me seems pale in comparison. That's just my Newbie uneducated opinion.

Still need to order next years wood..Out of wood racks and I have 3 that contains splits. Isn't Chunk Wood better for max heat and over nite burns and cheaper? Thanks for all the tlc.......

I know its crazy but going to repair the Winter Warm..Can't seem to find a product that I love as much. The cat stoves run slow and low, will eat less wood, lower flue temps, less creosote. The cast iron will radiate into the room even when I have no power..Cast interior so no bricks to replace!! Yum....Thanks guys for everything! Yes dealer will warranty parts and labor...+ the fans are not noisy on the WW....

 

[fredarm]

Good luck! Let us kow how it turns out.

 

[piejam]

Good morning Fred,

Just on my way to hearth dealer and saw your post. Need to put down 50% deposit. Want to walk thru showroom one last time before I pull the trigger on the repair. You lil devil You're haunting me with the new stove data. Can't seem to find same qualities I want in a steel stove. Dealer doesn't handle Jotul. I was right.They are trying to sell a clydesdale for 4800 bucks(insert only). Think that's cookie cutter, Suzie homemaker msrp price. Other line is Lennox- canyon 310.

If I was gonna go steel, pe summit..If that's too large Pe super.Hate to lose ebt feature if I did that. Fire shop sez they can retrofit fp for the install. They do have a pricing policy so any estimates I have they will meet. Its a tony place. Not my style. Have to put up with it since I want the repair and service on the WW. That lil sucker weighs in 475lbs! That's why its so darn warm all -that cast iron..Here's hoping I don't get burned..I'll roll the dice.

Thanks again for the help..So grateful to you and others. Since I have several projects going on(one contractor though) cannot let them collide. Will probably do retrofit 3rd week in Oct..Will update thread per latest developments. May be missing in action for awhile. Will pm you. Going to hop in my lil truck and drive straight into hell..Yuppyville millionaires row. Southampton has a pumpkin festival today. My timing couldn't be worse.

Cats may make a comeback in the future..Hoping if I repair maybe something I love will be available. All mentioned new model are fine and high quality. I'm just being a stubborn old PITA who's hooked on antiquity.

11/4/11 correction weight on ww 475 not 600-found my fireside advisor from 1993!

 

[begreen]

You are right to have your spidey sense on high alert. $4800 for a Clydesdale (not installed) is the highest I believe I have seen. It should be selling for more like $3500.

I was wondering if you were out in the Hamptons. That has to be a pricey neighborhood for most everything, including taxes. Have you considered selling this barn and getting into something smaller that will be easier to manage?

 

[piejam]

Hi BG

Just got back from the south shore. I actually live where the twin forks split..Dixie lives north of me. Pulled the trigger on the repair. Hope lead time for parts is not out of hand & I lose the season. They said in stock. Selling is on my mind. All work being done has transferable warranties on exterior and kitchen cabs. Hubby and I thought about building a log cabin and get out of New York. We loved the comfortable feel and warmth of such homes! Fireplaces/stoves rule. Lots of maintenance I think. Don't think I could handle those jacks to stabilize the house... A house in rural country instead of suburbia ahhh..Now if I can only learn to shoot that pistol grip mossberg dh left behind!

No time to sell. Lots of distressed real estate all over. House needed fixing repairs in progress. I'll hang out and enjoy this house before I give it up. Was always working. Figure that this effort will set me apart from other properties. Have an acre of land. Pitch pines, scrub oaks and maple. Natural/protected covenant. Appreciate you checking up on me.

I would like to thank all the members for their time and advice. Actually started sleeping better. I crawled around the ash can and enjoyed the posts and various topics. How tender you guys talk about your children and raising them. Advising new parents and Gamma's rekindling of soul-mates. You truly are an amazing crowd. Smart, witty, great sense of humor. Makes my dull days go by.

Here I am drowning in self pity, then I read how one member's unborn child need corrective surgery. Giant reality check for me. I will be praying for that family. I know these last few lines are off point for this forum but just wanted all of you to know. Ash can is sacred ground where you guys blow off steam and share your many friendships. Last thing you would need is this chatty Polish Pollyanna in that infernol xoxo...

 

[Dix]

Diane, you are probably on the money with the housing market. A friend from school is Hough & Guidice realty, he told me 2 years, atleast this past July.

An acre in Brookhaven is usually legal for 2 horses, something to keep in mind where you are.