new to wood and i m having trouble getting enough heat out of a top loading tempwood to heat a 1600 sq 2 storey area we removed a lakewood front loading 2 door stove that use to cook us out of the house. same wood, same chimeny, same operator...lol any ideas? thanks
output rating of a stove
- Thread starter bucketboy
- Start date
-
Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.
We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.
We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
- Status
firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
Tell us a bit about how you load the stove and how you run the air control . . . i.e. at what temp or time do you start to close down the air to get a secondary burn, etc.
i load the stove with 4 or 5 pieces of seasoned hardwood ( oak, maple or ash) and leave the draft wide open and still i can t seem to get enough heat out of the stove. the wood is 2 years old . i m not sure if these stoves were designed to be loaded up or if you have to burn i piece at a time. for the peace of mind for safety of top loading i m freezing us out of the house. who would of thought burning wood was so hard?
firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
bucketboy said:
Ah ha . . . and now the answer is clear . . . thought this might have possibly been the case.
Common mistake made my newbies.
You would think wide open air with the big flames would equal lots of heat . . . kind of like giving a car more gas equals more speed. However, with a woodstove it's a bit different. Best way to think of a woodstove is perhaps to think of the heat as a stream or river. With the air left wide open what happens is the heat generated by the woodstove is sent up the chimney . . . where it heats up the chickadees and squirrels and displeases Al Gore.
What you want to do is bring the stove up to temp . . . and then slowly start to close the air . . . generally I recommend closing the air a quarter "turn" or "push" at a time . . . and then wait for 5 minutes . . . if the fire continues to burn . . . try shutting it another quarter turn.
Eventually what should happen if your stove is hot enough and if your wood is seasoned enough is that you should start getting a secondary fire . . . this is where the smoke and combustible gases still in that smoke that would normally go up your chimney are re-routed so to speak and reburned . . . with the result being more heat. You'll know a secondary burn when you see it -- it may look like someone has stuffed a propane BBQ grill in your woodstove with blue jets streaming out or it may look like the Northern Lights as the smoke "explodes" into view and then fades away or it may look like Satan has opened up a Portal to Hell in your woodstove and you may very well be convinced you are about to burn down the house.
Flames "on" the wood itself meanwhile are generally low and have a "lazy" look about them . . . perhaps the most exciting aspect of having a secondary burn though is not the visual appeal but the increase of heat. If you're standing on the far side of the room it will take a while for the stove to heat up the room for you to notice since it takes time for stoves to heat up the space . . . but if you're right next to the stove you will most likely notice a pretty intense heat after a few minutes with the secondary burn.
What happens when you start to kick back the air control is that you are now no longer allowing so much of that heated air to go up the chimney . . . instead you are using it to heat up the stove . . . and this is a good thing. Some other signs that you are getting good heat will be the plinking and tinking and pop sounds coming from the woodstove . . . my wife calls this metal heating up the "sound of heat."
A few tips . . .
Good, well seasoned wood is crucial . . . hopefully you have good wood . . . if not you can get by . . . using pallets helps . . . but you still need to keep a close check on your chimney for creosote build up.
Dig out that fan you use in the summer time. Position it facing your woodstove from an adjoining room . . . yes . . . facing the stove . . . what this will do is set up a current of air . . . cooler air at the floor level will be blown toward the stove where it hits the stove and is heated up, the heated air rises and then flows outwards to the area displaced by the cooler air. Again, it is not instaneous . . .. but if you have the stove going for several hours it will help move the heat.
Thermometers . . . very useful tools . . . I could run my stove without them . . . but with them I can run the stove much better since they clue me in as to when I should start shutting down the air.
firefighterjake
Minister of Fire
A few other thoughts . . .
Learning to wood is a taught skill . . . making a fire . . . that's the easy part . . . making a fire in a stove that will heat up the place . . . that's where the learned skill comes in . . . you're in the right place to learn.
Also, avoid putting in just a single stick of wood . . . my own personal rule of thumb is to try to always have at least three splits in the stove on a reload or start up . . . for some reason the fire just works better . . . and it is better to load up, achieve the secondary burn and then let the wood die down to coals . . .. and then reload . . . to be effective (and not end up with a firebox full of coals) you will want to learn to burn in cycles . . . load up with air open, cut back the air and watch the secondary, wait until the coals have broken down to the size of baseballs or softballs and re-do all the steps.
Final thought . . . for now . . . if you have questions ask away . . . we've all been where you are . . . learning how to use our stoves safely and efficiently . . . and our goal is the same as you -- to safely, efficiently warm our house and loved ones.
Learning to wood is a taught skill . . . making a fire . . . that's the easy part . . . making a fire in a stove that will heat up the place . . . that's where the learned skill comes in . . . you're in the right place to learn.
Also, avoid putting in just a single stick of wood . . . my own personal rule of thumb is to try to always have at least three splits in the stove on a reload or start up . . . for some reason the fire just works better . . . and it is better to load up, achieve the secondary burn and then let the wood die down to coals . . .. and then reload . . . to be effective (and not end up with a firebox full of coals) you will want to learn to burn in cycles . . . load up with air open, cut back the air and watch the secondary, wait until the coals have broken down to the size of baseballs or softballs and re-do all the steps.
Final thought . . . for now . . . if you have questions ask away . . . we've all been where you are . . . learning how to use our stoves safely and efficiently . . . and our goal is the same as you -- to safely, efficiently warm our house and loved ones.
Backwoods Savage
Minister of Fire
bucketboy said:
Welcome to the forum bucketboy.
Jake has a great post with much knowledge there. Take heed.
One more point is your first sentence above. If you see the bold (my doing), that statement always sets off an alarm with me. We see this over and over and over where someone swears by their "seasoned" hardwood. However, it is much better to explain how that wood was seasoned. Many times were are told it was purchased. If so, do plan on it NOT being seasoned, no matter what the wood seller said. Seasoned is a very vague term.
Here is one good point: you state oak, maple and ash as your hardwood. Great! However, are you aware that those 3 woods will vary a lot in the amount of time it needs to become seasoned? To start with, soft maple and hard maple will season a bit different. Soft maple will season about as quickly as white ash.....a year. But let's look at that oak. It is one of the very best woods to burn.....but it takes 2-3 years to become dry enough to burn! That is 2-3 years AFTER it has been split and then stacked out in the wind to dry. So do please check your wood....and turn that draft down. Good luck.
Hmmm...dunno - the lakewood was a cat stove and the tempwood is a UL listed but non-epa stove rated at 35,000 btu. Me thinks you may be expecting too much from this stove. I don't ever remember being overly impressed with the heat output of them.
But by all means - run it through the paces that Jake pointed out above. It may be an operational or wood issue as well.
But by all means - run it through the paces that Jake pointed out above. It may be an operational or wood issue as well.
the wood i m burning was split and stacked in the spring of 2008 that why i say it is seasoned. i cut my wood out of my own bush and try to keep a year and a hald ahead. maybe your right i m expecting too much out of this little stove. the lakewood worked so good and ate a lot of wood too!
bucketboy said:
To be honest - those ratings don't mean a heck of alot. It is kinda that same way they rate log splitter IMHO. You would be better served by measuring the firebox and using the cuft measurement to calculate its capabilities.
Kilks
New Member
Hello all, I am new to this forum (first post) but have been enjoying the reading for a while. I find this particular thread very interesting and in general I have found this site to be filled with friendly, helpful, and passionate people and I appreciate the atmosphere here.
I have been heating exclusively with wood for the past 3 years but I am entirely self taught as nobody else in my family heats with wood. I have an older (probably from the late 70's early 80's) kodiak wood stove that has 2 dampers in the front and I also have a damper on the stovepipe leading to the chimney. It was mentioned that you do not produce the most heat when you leave the dampers open wide because of lack of secondary combustion. If I leave the dampers wide open I will burn through a load of wood (3-4 decent sized 18" splits) in about 2 hours and I can extend the burn to about 10 hours with the dampers nearly closed. I always assumed that I was producing the most heat with the dampers wide open, but I guess that is wrong? I also usually leave the damper on the stove pipe wide open and I am not sure how I should use this to regulate the fire. If I turn it down about halfway and leave the dampers on the stove wide open I extend the burn time from 2 to 4 or 5 hours, but I don't know if this produces as much heat from the fire. I am not as concerned about how much wood that I am using, but I want to be able to produce the most heat that I can from the stove and doing that efficiently would obviously be ideal :lol: i Should I use both the damper on the stovepipe and the ones on the stove? It just seems that when I turn the dampers down after primary combustion is initiated I get slower burns but decreased heat output...is that just my imagination? I don't have a thermometer but might pick one up after all of the suggestions on this site. The wood that I am burning right now is primarily black birch c/s/s January 2009.
I have been heating exclusively with wood for the past 3 years but I am entirely self taught as nobody else in my family heats with wood. I have an older (probably from the late 70's early 80's) kodiak wood stove that has 2 dampers in the front and I also have a damper on the stovepipe leading to the chimney. It was mentioned that you do not produce the most heat when you leave the dampers open wide because of lack of secondary combustion. If I leave the dampers wide open I will burn through a load of wood (3-4 decent sized 18" splits) in about 2 hours and I can extend the burn to about 10 hours with the dampers nearly closed. I always assumed that I was producing the most heat with the dampers wide open, but I guess that is wrong? I also usually leave the damper on the stove pipe wide open and I am not sure how I should use this to regulate the fire. If I turn it down about halfway and leave the dampers on the stove wide open I extend the burn time from 2 to 4 or 5 hours, but I don't know if this produces as much heat from the fire. I am not as concerned about how much wood that I am using, but I want to be able to produce the most heat that I can from the stove and doing that efficiently would obviously be ideal :lol: i Should I use both the damper on the stovepipe and the ones on the stove? It just seems that when I turn the dampers down after primary combustion is initiated I get slower burns but decreased heat output...is that just my imagination? I don't have a thermometer but might pick one up after all of the suggestions on this site. The wood that I am burning right now is primarily black birch c/s/s January 2009.
Kilks said:
Welcome to the forum Kilks.
Much of the info you may see on this board is specific to the stove in question. That old Kodiak is a different beast from an EPA stove, and amongst EPA stoves there are various differences. It sounds like you have worked your stove to figure out what the "sweet" spot is, so the above information may not be applicable to your stove.
Edit: for instance - with the Kodiak, you have no concern with secondary burn. It doesn't have the burn tubes/cat with an air source to create one.
Backwoods Savage
Minister of Fire
Welcome to the forum Kilks.
In general, I would leave the damper in the stove pipe open always if you can regulate it all from the stove. And now you know to not burn with drafts full open. You'll find that most of today's stoves do not require a pipe damper. Some folks put them in anyway. Ours does not have a pipe damper and only one draft control. We get along just fine. The draft, btw, stays full open usually not more than about 10 minutes and most times not that long. Big draft, lots of heat goes straight out the chimney.
In general, I would leave the damper in the stove pipe open always if you can regulate it all from the stove. And now you know to not burn with drafts full open. You'll find that most of today's stoves do not require a pipe damper. Some folks put them in anyway. Ours does not have a pipe damper and only one draft control. We get along just fine. The draft, btw, stays full open usually not more than about 10 minutes and most times not that long. Big draft, lots of heat goes straight out the chimney.
- Status