Picked up an Englander 13NCI but it was welded by the "new guy"

[tkirk22]

Merry Christmas to one and all.

I'm at the new home in the mountains and was planning to do my stove insert installation this weekend while I have the help of some Christmas relatives to help carry the insert into the house. I borrowed a truck and was in and out of the fireplace store in 15 minutes. By the time I was home, Santa (aka the FedEx guy) had dropped off my liner kit and insulation. I also received a "GO" from the insurance company and inspector. I love it when a plan comes together ;-)

While I'm opening the insert box I start wondering if the wood pallet is dry enough to use for a break in burn in the driveway and if I have the tools to fix my chainsaw to cut more wood. The next thing that happens is the classic WTF moment. The "new guy" must have welded my stove together. Pics are below. It looks like he welded the top plate from each end and towards the middle. By the time he welded the middle of the plate the metal expanded into a hump and he continued to weld across it. (BTW: Yes I weld)

The bottom line is that there's a 3/16" hump in the top plate of the insert because of an improper welding procedure. It's not a structural defect but it will certainly effect the selling price if I was to ever sell the insert. I'm also a little concerned about the quality of the other welds that I can't see. However the welds I can see look like they have adequate penetration although they are slightly ugly.

I have the insert on the bed of a borrowed pickup. I need to get if off the truck or replaced or something. I've talked to the factory over the course of the early afternoon but they didn't call back with a solution before closing for the Christmas holidays. (Did I mention that I had to drive past the factory to buy the stove) Anyway, Lifting the stove off the truck is not a problem but putting it back on the truck after the holidays is going to be difficult due to lack of man power.

I know Mike and Corie from Englander will read this post and based on what I've seen from their other posts on this site they will stand behind their product. What I really want to know is what do you guys think is a fair solution.

Kirk
PS. The good thing is that Santa is still going to make it down the chimney this year and I think he's bringing coal ;-)

 

[TMonter]

My guess is Mike & Corie will work with you to replace the stove. Given that it's the holidays it might take a little longer but I'm sure they'll come up with a fair solution.

 

[webbie]

That is what happens then Mike accepts a gift of Gooses Mead for the holidays and then someone hands him a welder.
Or, was that the day BB visited and he claimed that he welded on those oil platforms?

 

[Corie]

This is really an unfortunate time for me to see this because at this point there isn't much I can do. However, I do happen to know that customer service will be open tomorrow morning for approximately 3 hours. They should be there from nine until noon. Please call them as early as possible, and ask for Mike Holton. He will get you all set up and will use his best judgment (in conjunction with the judgment of our customer service manager) to remedy this situation to the absolute best of your ability. If I was going to be at work in the morning, I would give you my direct line, but the development lab will be closed tomorrow.


If you get get in contact with Mike Holton ask for Chris Terrell (The customer service manager) and he will most definitely be able to take care of this.


If the ultimate decision is to give you a replacement unit (this decision is not up to me), rest assured that I will personally be checking every inch of welding and steel on the replacement unit and you will get a unit that is as perfect as I can possibly find.

 

[tkirk22]

That is what happens then Mike accepts a gift of Gooses Mead for the holidays and then someone hands him a welder.
Or, was that the day BB visited and he claimed that he welded on those oil platforms?

It took me a minute of scratching my head and then some 'google-fu' to figure that out. So Gooserider makes beer and BrotherBart was a roughneck ???


Corie: Thanks for your reply. There's no doubt in my mind that you guys will stand behind your product and to tell you the truth yours and Mike's posts here were a large factor in my decision to buy an Englander. I do know the timing was bad because of the Christmas holiday. I'll try calling Saturday and we'll see what happens.

Kirk

 

[Hogwildz]

Who is QC there? How thew hell did that thing ever leave the factory like that? How can ya miss it? LOL

 

[BrotherBart]

Who is QC there? How thew hell did that thing ever leave the factory like that? How can ya miss it? LOL

Starting to wonder myself.

 

[webbie]

It took me a minute of scratching my head and then some 'google-fu' to figure that out. So Gooserider makes beer and BrotherBart was a roughneck ???

Goose (moderator) raises bees and makes something besides honey from the sugars!
BB (probably one of the 4 longest serving forum folks) %-P , me thinks, has worked for big oil, but more likely as a programmer than a welder. That, in itself, could be the problem with giving him a torch.

 

[Webwidow]

Golly it is one nasty looking wrinkle. BB on Goose brew is as good an answer as any. hh: Goes into my laundry room, plugs in the iron and smooths out the stove wrinkles.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

after researching this issue , found that the unit was sold to a local dealer who purchases stoves from us for resale. some units he purchases are "factory seconds" which have some kind of cosmetic blemish on them that while they do not compremise the safety of the unit (anything of that nature would have been destroyed and leaves here only in the scrap bin back to the steel place for recycling) this unit was one of these "seconds" the unit is sold to the dealer at a discount , which is then passed on to the customer. this unit is normally sold at about $1150 retail the one in question was sold for considerably less. the dealer however apparantly did not mention to the customer that this was a "blemish" unit. i have talked to the customer , explaining this , and the boss has contacted the dealer, who agreed to swap the unit out should the customer wish to bring it back. i would emphasize that the location of this bulge is part of the "convection" housing and not the actual firebox itself. and while it is "unsightly" (hence the reason for "blem" status) when installed , this would not be visible as it would be inside the fireplace hidden by the shroud. also , this bulge would not in any way hamper the operation of the unit. the unit would also recieve the same warranty as a unit purchased at regular retail price. i have left this situation in the hands of the customer who does as stated have the option of recieving a replacement from the dealer (who said , he would swap it today if the customer wished to bring it by)

 

[webbie]

Glad to see it resolved.

Tell you the truth, I would accept a unit like that for my fireplace- assuming I thought that I was getting a good price on it. But, then again, I admittedly would never be given a job in QC.

As you note, it is just the air (convection chamber).

Pretty amazing service, you guys, over Xmas weekend! Ah, the advantages of a company without a lot of "layers".

 

[Webwidow]

Good lesson in customer service. When all is said and done, what did the retailer really make on this unit? A few extra dollars is never worth the bad press he will receive for deceiving a customer. Never underestimate the power of the word of mouth. (Tipping Point) The dealer should throw in a gift certificate for the unnecessary hassle they have caused. Good on Englander for advocating for their customer. Maybe mark Factory Seconds on the stove box. Was it Snap On Tools who as the legend goes buries all their seconds?

this unit is normally sold at about $1150 retail the one in question was sold for considerably less. the dealer however apparantly did not mention to the customer that this was a “blemish” unit.

 

[TMonter]

Thanks for the update Mike, I must say I've been nothing but impressed with your guys customer service.

Now make a insert approved for ZC fireplaces so I can recommend them in my neighborhood.

 

[tkirk22]

Yes, the defect is in the air chamber so there's no safety issue. Also Mike did assure me that different people welded different sections on the assembly line and that did make me feel better.

I have not called the dealer yet. I'm getting sick and I'm a little too 'fuzz brained' to deal with it today.

I'm not blaming Englander as it was the dealer who appears to have misrepresented the product but am I satisfied? I would have to say NO. Had I known that I was being sold a blem unit I would have still considered buying it but I would have opened the box right in the parking lot to see the exact nature of the defect.

I paid cash for a stove in good condition. The resolution with the dealer in this case seems to be: "you caught us, but we'll give you another one." Now I have to waste another hour of my time to pick up another stove. I don't think anyone here would be satisfied with that!

In addition, IMHO the box should have been marked, the QC inspection tag should have been marked, the rear ID plate on the stove should have been marked designating the nature of the defect, and the serial number should had been flagged in the computer as a "factory second". That way a customer would know he is purchasing a blem unit and not that a defect passed through QC.

Kirk
PS. I do appreciate the help from Mike and Corie.

 

[TMonter]

Yeah it's pretty crappy the dealer did that to you. It might also be that someone gave you a unit that was meant to be sold as a second at the dealer. I'd give the dealer the benefit of the doubt until you talk to them. I'd had seconds goven to me before by the "new guy" on products because he didn't know better.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

In addition, IMHO the box should have been marked, That way a customer would know he is purchasing a blem unit and not that a defect passed through QC.

kirk , this suggestion does bear merit, i will discuss this with the boss, we do mark the boxes for our purposes but they do not read as "seconds", in retrospect that may be a viable thing that could avert this in the future. i will pass this idea on. (if the boss doesnt read it first, he's turning into a high priced lurker <chuckle>) it is a good idea, thanks.

 

[RonB]

Good resolution by Mike and Corie, and quick. They are quality people and likely build and sell a quality product. However, why let a stove that looks that bad out of the factory?--for any reason. Makes the customer wonder about the rest of the quality of the stove.

 

[Highbeam]

I don't have a dog in the fight. However, I will agree that the manufacturer is trusting, depending, praying, that the dealer comes clean and admits that this is a blemished stove and also hoping and depending on the dealer to pass on the savings. If either of these things does not happen then the manufacturer looks like a goon since the product is poorly constructed and at full price. I think we all can agree that there are a few dealers out there that are crooks, might even be some salesmen on the floor that are ignorant of the fact that they are passing along factory seconds.

Englander MUST take the dealer out of the picture by either destroying blem stoves, selling them directly from the factory as blem stoves (doesn't another brand do this) or labeling the bajeepers out of it as a last resort. It is a darn shame to waste a functional stove so my vote is for a factory sales party!

 

[tkirk22]

I don't have a dog in the fight. However, I will agree that the manufacturer is trusting, depending, praying, that the dealer comes clean and admits that this is a blemished stove and also hoping and depending on the dealer to pass on the savings. If either of these things does not happen then the manufacturer looks like a goon since the product is poorly constructed and at full price. I think we all can agree that there are a few dealers out there that are crooks, might even be some salesmen on the floor that are ignorant of the fact that they are passing along factory seconds.

Englander MUST take the dealer out of the picture by either destroying blem stoves, selling them directly from the factory as blem stoves (doesn't another brand do this) or labeling the bajeepers out of it as a last resort. It is a darn shame to waste a functional stove so my vote is for a factory sales party!

Some companies have scratch and dent tent sales. I think Enco does that with their machinery ??

To be fair and to clarify, the stove was not at full retail price and I would not pay retail. I first called the Lowes store which is in the next town over from the factory, they wanted $11xx for the insert (full retail). I expected to get the stove cheaper because shipping costs are a non-issue when you are within jogging distance of the factory. IIRC, the local Ace Hardware wanted $999 and would take $950 if he didn't have to deal with a credit card. The stove dealer I bought mine from wanted $850 and $800 with cash or check. He is about 2 miles from the factory so shipping costs again are a non issue.

I considered it a fair price for a properly built stove that is so close to the point of manufacture but not a fair price for a factory second with anything more than a paint run.

And now the wife is in the "questioning and doubting mode". Arrgh

Kirk

 

[BrotherBart]

And now the wife is in the "questioning and doubting mode". Arrgh

That's it for that stove. She will never sleep in a house it is burning in.

 

[Highbeam]

As the consumer you should be looking for a great deal. Closeouts, clearances, bankruptcy sales etc. We know that a profit is built into the retail sales price and we know that some dealers will lower their asking price for some reason. Sometimes even taking a loss to move their inventory.

The customer is never at fault for seeking a great deal on a great stove. If the dealer is giving you that great price on a blem stove wthout telling you then you are a victim. Victim of bait and switch. Ripped off. What if he just sold you an empty box????? That dealer should be willing to do more than just swap your stove, he was caught with his pants down.

 

[tkirk22]

And now the wife is in the "questioning and doubting mode". Arrgh

That's it for that stove. She will never sleep in a house it is burning in.

Oh, it's nothing like that. I do believe the stove is safe and she knows that I know enough about metal to trust my judgment.

I do things right or I don't do them at all. This install is going to be done right and it's going to have to pass MY "sleep test". I've got enough things to worry about...a burning wood stove in my home will not be one of them.

Kirk
PS: The weather just cleared, hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to squeeze the liner down the chimney.

 

[cmonSTART]

Kirk
PS: The weather just cleared, hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to squeeze the liner down the chimney.

Perfect timing! The best way to do that tomorrow is to dress in a big red suit, tie one end of the liner to your beard, and jump on down!

 

[Jclout]

I've heard Englander has some good service. Kinda makes me wish I bought one, and having some guys from the company on this site is a great advantage to Englander owners. Although I did check one out tonight at Home Depot and it seemed to be very low to the ground on the pedestal. I'm not sure what model it was, maybe a 30 NC, not sure if this is rite. The fire box was definately larger than the Quadrafire 3100 and it did have an ash pan and it was about $400 cheaper, but other than that I do like my Quad.

 

[tkirk22]

We picked up a replacement insert yesterday. The dealer first tried to unload his old floor model on me but then he made a call to the ESW factory and they were cool enough to send someone to open the warehouse and load a new one on the truck.

So it all worked out in the end although it was a hassle.

I haven't gotten much done on the liner install due to time and weather issues. I did oval the liner, make a wooden pull cone, and start work on a rig to lower the liner into the chimney. I took photos that I'll post after it's installed.

Kirk
PS. I hope everyone had a great holiday!