Low flue temps?

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Graelb

Member
Jan 31, 2017
27
Oregon
Hey all.

I'm the guy with the weird EPA stove with no air controls built into the stove (US stove king 2016 E(b) for those interested).

So I have a jerryrigged magnet and metal bar solution to control my primaries, which actually works alright, and now have a Condar flueguard installed.

Interestingly enough, the stove seems to run hot (550-600 pretty easily once it's running), while the Condar is only reading 400 once it's up and running. I have to damp the fire down using one of or a combination of my rinkidink primary air control or flue damper. Right now I have it cruising right about 580, and the flue is only reading about 400... Does this sound about right? I have pretty white smoke coming out the chimney... Thoughts?


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Sounds about right to me.

Got any pics of this stove? I can't picture this model.
 
Sounds about right to me.

Got any pics of this stove? I can't picture this model.
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Good to hear that it's on track... Not sure I love this stove, but it does hear the place up!

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Thanks for the pics

I'm not seeing secondary air tubes along the top of the burn chamber. Instead of being an EPA approved stove I'm guessing it is an EPA exempt unit, and that is why you don't have air controls.

The exempt units are considered a fireplace and allow extra air in to make a cleaner burn.

If it is installed to spec, for an occasional heater it should do fine.

If your goal is 24/7 burning, and you have well seasoned wood an EPA approved stove with air control would serve you better in the long run.

Have fun playing with the new toy!
 
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Thanks for the pics

I'm not seeing secondary air tubes along the top of the burn chamber. Instead of being an EPA approved stove I'm guessing it is an EPA exempt unit, and that is why you don't have air controls.

The exempt units are considered a fireplace and allow extra air in to make a cleaner burn.

If it is installed to spec, for an occasional heater it should do fine.

If your goal is 24/7 burning, and you have well seasoned wood an EPA approved stove with air control would serve you better in the long run.

Have fun playing with the new toy!
Actually it does have secondary air tubes, the rectangular hole on the bottom in the pics above show the intake, here's a photo of the actual tubes.
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Actually it does have secondary air tubes, the rectangular hole on the bottom in the pics above show the intake, here's a photo of the actual tubes.
View attachment 194488

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That is interesting for certain!

Hmm, wondering why this is setup this way.

Thanks for sharing
 
That is interesting for certain!
Yeah, super hard to control the damn thing when it's roaring. I have two madrone splits in there more, and have been fighting to keep it under 600 for an hour now.

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Well I was wondering why you only had 2 pieces of wood in the firebox, but your comment about fighting to keep it under 600 kind of answered my question.... :)
 
Well I was wondering why you only had 2 pieces of wood in the firebox, but your comment about fighting to keep it under 600 kind of answered my question.... :)
Yup.

I had to block the primaries all the way, and damp the flue down to like 50% in order to get it to stabilize. Had I primary and secondary controls, it would have been way easier, but c'est la vie.

On the bright side... The secondary burns were really pretty there for a few minutes

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Well if it any consolation to you, I also use my flue damper to control the burn in my wood stove, although I use it in concert with my primary air control.... The flue control is an absolute necessity on my set up, which runs straight up ~25 feet from the basement.... but I love the set up now: first I set the primary air to around 75% closed, and then I close the flue damper by degrees, usually until it is fully, or almost fully, closed. That leaves a a slight bit of flame burning in the box, keeps the temps up nice and hot, but not too hot, and keeps the home fires warm and cuddly.... :)
 
Well if it any consolation to you, I also use my flue damper to control the burn in my wood stove, although I use it in concert with my primary air control.... The flue control is an absolute necessity on my set up, which runs straight up ~25 feet from the basement.... but I love the set up now: first I set the primary air to around 75% closed, and then I close the flue damper by degrees, usually until it is fully, or almost fully, closed. That leaves a a slight bit of flame burning in the box, keeps the temps up nice and hot, but not too hot, and keeps the home fires warm and cuddly.... :)
Is that a pretty normal routine? Most of the air intake turned mostly down by the time you are in full burn?

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Is that a pretty normal routine? Most of the air intake turned mostly down by the time you are in full burn?

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Yes, for most people the primary air gets turned downed a little at a time until you find that sweet spot where the primary air is anywhere from 75% to 95% closed, and the secondaries are in full bloom!

Since I use my flue damper as part of my startup procedure, I just set the primary air where I've found it to be most conducive to a nice hot burn (around 75% to 80%) right early in the burn cycle and then move on to adjusting the flue damper...
 
Yes, for most people the primary air gets turned downed a little at a time until you find that sweet spot where the primary air is anywhere from 75% to 95% closed, and the secondaries are in full bloom!

Since I use my flue damper as part of my startup procedure, I just set the primary air where I've found it to be most conducive to a nice hot burn (around 75% to 80%) right early in the burn cycle and then move on to adjusting the flue damper...
Interesting! And awesome actually. How about when you leave the house? Do you damp the whole thing down hard? I'm worried about creosote buildup in using the damper too much

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Interesting! And awesome actually. How about when you leave the house? Do you damp the whole thing down hard? I'm worried about creosote buildup in using the damper too much

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Yes, the procedure that I've outlined above is the way I run my stove all the time, and I burn 24/7. I wasn't able to have a proper controlled burn prior to installing the flue damper; I suffered from runaway fires constantly, and frighteningly overzealous secondary's that burned through my wood in a no time at all.... I wasn't enjoying burning when I first began this journey, because I was always a nervous wreck! The flue damper was a complete game changer for me; it gave me back control of my stove and its burn rate.... I'm very happy with the way the stove runs now, with 8 to 10 hour burn times with lots of hot coals to start off the next fire easy-peasy as you please.... :)
 
Oh, and I still run my stove a little on the hot side, because I'm trying to heat my house from the basement.... Knock on wood (man hits his head) but my yearly cleanings thus far have been more an act of going through the motions, as all that I have in my flue is about a cup or 1.5 cups of soot.... As I said, it's all been very good! :)
 
Yes, the procedure that I've outlined above is the way I run my stove all the time, and I burn 24/7. I wasn't able to have a proper controlled burn prior to installing the flue damper; I suffered from runaway fires constantly, and frighteningly overzealous secondary's that burned through my wood in a no time at all.... I wasn't enjoying burning when I first began this journey, because I was always a nervous wreck! The flue damper was a complete game changer for me; it gave me back control of my stove and its burn rate.... I'm very happy with the way the stove runs now, with 8 to 10 hour burn times with lots of hot coals to start off the next fire easy-peasy as you please.... :)
Ha! That's exactly where I'm at. Getting up to check the stove every twenty minutes until it's on its down cycle, then just letting it burn out. The woman is like "it's a stove, it'll be fine, it's designed for this, just chill out" good to know I'm not the only one lol

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It is a wonderful liberating moment when you realize that you know how to run your stove! And you'll get there... it takes time... and a lot of reading here on hearth.com... :)
 
It is a wonderful liberating moment when you realize that you know how to run your stove! And you'll get there... it takes time... and a lot of reading here on hearth.com... :)
Any chance you could post a video to show what it looks like through the window when your stove is in cruise mode? Mine looks like this right now running around 480

https://goo.gl/photos/6Gue4kFQttdDXJnV8

That's flue t about 50% and primaries at about 50%

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Hi Graelb. Sorry I didn't see your post last night before turning in. Here is a picture of my stove in cruising mode this morning. It has been running for about an hour when I took the picture. The stove top is running between 680 F and 725 F taken from various points on the stove top. The flue is running at 385 C which converts to 725 F.... Hope this helps. It sounds like your stove is being a real pain in the butt right now eh? That can be very frustrating. How many sticks of wood did you have in it when you were running it last night before it died out? I'm wondering if you might need to load it with 4 to 6 splits in order to get it going good and keep it self-sustaining? I'm not an expert though, but I'm sure someone around here could chime in and help you with your operating issues. Perhaps you could start by explaining your whole set up exactly from the stove right up to the chimney cap, and maybe give us an idea of how dry your wood is.... Details help in trouble shooting... And your in the right place to get things sorted... Chin up! :)
 

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I'll go and shoot a video and see if I can upload that sometime today.

Cheers
 
Well I can't seem to get the video uploaded so the best I can give you is the picture above. Better than nothing though... :)
 
Hi Graelb. Sorry I didn't see your post last night before turning in. Here is a picture of my stove in cruising mode this morning. It has been running for about an hour when I took the picture. The stove top is running between 680 F and 725 F taken from various points on the stove top. The flue is running at 385 C which converts to 725 F.... Hope this helps. It sounds like your stove is being a real pain in the butt right now eh? That can be very frustrating. How many sticks of wood did you have in it when you were running it last night before it died out? I'm wondering if you might need to load it with 4 to 6 splits in order to get it going good and keep it self-sustaining? I'm not an expert though, but I'm sure someone around here could chime in and help you with your operating issues. Perhaps you could start by explaining your whole set up exactly from the stove right up to the chimney cap, and maybe give us an idea of how dry your wood is.... Details help in trouble shooting... And your in the right place to get things sorted... Chin up! :)
Okay!

Let's see, the stove is a US stove king 2016 E (b) , with no primary or secondary air controls other than my magnetic steel bar and tin foil for the secondaries.

I'm using double wall pipe up to the ceiling which is about 13' of stove pipe, then 11' of chimney above that to a normal chimney cap with a spark arrestor. I have a flue damper installed right above the stove to pipe connector, two stove top thermometers on the center of the stove top, and a flue thermometer about 18.5"off the top of the stove.

I'm using a combination of mostly dry cottonwood and 2 year seasoned madrone.

I usually start it with a small load and let it burn down to a bed of coals, then add a big madrone split, then repeat. If I add too much wood, the burn gets a little out of control and it's hard to keep it under 600. I'm not sure exactly when I should start damping it down, and by how much, or what the indicators are.

Any suggestions or tips would be appreciated!

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Hi again Graelb. I was hoping some of the more experienced users would jump in and try to help here, but here's my take on things. It sounds like you have a good flue/chimney system, and that you've got more than adequate length to give your flue system a good draw. As far as a general start up procedure would go (forget about the flue damper for now), I was taught that you should put in enough wood to sustain a good burn. Perhaps just adding that 1 split of madrone isn't enough to keep things going for a very long time. I'd recommend that you try loading 3 splits on the bottom layer, and then a 2nd layer with another 2 splits, and pack them together nice and snug. That would give you a nice base for a long burn. So after the wood takes off, the wood is nicely charred and the fire is very lively and really starting to fill the box, you would damp down the primary air intake say around 25% closed. That will usually slow down the fire so that the flames are slow and lazy, but not going out or smoldering; if that happens you need to quickly open the primary air up a little. So once you turn it down this first time to 25% closed you leave it and watch while it slowly starts to build back up, maybe for 5 or 10 minutes. After the fire has built back up again, and it is vigorous and lively, and the temps are climbing (I monitor my flue temps and use that as my guide) then you would go and turn down the primary air again to say ~50% closed; again, the flames should get slow and lazy, and you can sit back and watch it until it builds back up again (maybe watching the flue temps and when you see them starting to climb fast) then you go over and turn it down another 25% so that your primary air inlet is now closed ~75%.... So here you go and sit back down again and wait for the fire to build back up, BUT, this is probably your last (or close to last) adjustment, and when the fire is building back up again (and the flue temps are starting to climb again) you head over and adjust it, but probably not all the way closed; this last adjustment is where you're hoping to make some very small slight adjustments to slow the blaze down slightly, but not so much that it's going to go out. I used to figure closing it to around 90% or so, so the flames are slow and lazy, the secondary's are lighting off and putting on a nice show, and your keeping your flue temps down a bit, although not too low... I wouldn't worry so much about keeping the stove top down below 600 F.... You can probably run the stove pretty safely with the stove top touching up to between 700 and 750 F at the start of your fire (and your flue temp will be slightly less than that, so maybe around 600 or 650 F). Once the fire has been burning for an hour or so they will begin to slowly drop again.... But my main point is that you don't have to be a slave to the numbers... you really have to learn how your stove burns and then try to work within it's habits... And here's where it's nice to have the Flue Damper; if you find that you've got the primary air inlet almost completely shut down, but the fire is still growing hotter and hotter (and probably the flue temps are going up as well) then you can start turning down the damper incrementally, just like you were doing with the primary air: shut it down a bit until the flames get slow and lazy, and then just watch to see if they start building back up.... if they do, damp it down a bit more, and keep watching it. Eventually you're going to hit the sweet spot where you've found that the fire is staying at a nice comfortable rate that you can live with... This is how I would approach your learning curve with your stove. I wouldn't just keep using 1 or 2 sticks, because it just ain't gonna be sustainable... you've got to feed the stove the way it was meant to be fed. Now that doesn't necessarily mean stuffing it to the gills, but 4 or 5 splits is kind of where the stove would need to start to live to its fullest potential, to attain its ultimate function as a hot blooded heating machine! It will be happy, and you will be happy. I think this would be a nice safe way for you to approach your next stage of experimentation with the stove of yours... even though I understand the difficulty of running a stove without the proper mechanisms needed to adjust the air inlet and whatnot....

Good luck brother!.