Log splitter will only split at low engine RPM

[nezwick]

Our TSC (Wadsworth) didn't. I was pretty surprised, and also surprised about NAPA since they make hydraulic hoses and sell all the fittings. Not sure when I'll get down to Wooster next for Rural King, but it definitely won't be in the next couple of days. I even stopped at a place that sells and services large equipment like dozers, backhoes, and big earth movers. The guy there told me he just orders stuff like that from Northern haha

 

[nezwick]

What a cool awesome over engineered spilter.
Makes the junk they sell nowadays look pretty cheap.

I finally figured out how to use the quoting on this forum. Cool over-engineered things are just my cup of tea. And so is accumulating equipment that are so old and so uncommon that parts are impossible to find. We have a cement mixer with a Briggs 9R6 on which the coil and armature failed. I only got to use it for one project before it just wouldn't give any more spark. If anybody has ever tried to find parts for that series (8, 9, 14, etc.) then you understand the struggle. Ended up buying a reproduction coil, but didn't find the armature, so that repair project stalled. Just this week I found a NOS armature on eBay and bought it up. It should be here by the weekend. I'm wondering if I'll have the same experience with Wisconsin parts (this is my first Wisconsin).

And yeah, below is the splitter my brother has (HF 20 ton). I thought it was pretty nice when he got it a couple years ago.

When I go to Tractor Supply I look at the ones sitting out front. With their puny frames and their 6.5 HP engines (lol) they all look like children's play toys compared to this behemoth I found. Just have to get all the kinks worked out of this one.

Only issue is, since last year I've been bucking up logs into 28-30" pieces and those are between 4-6" too long for this splitter. I was only considering the length of my firebox, not even thinking that a splitter wouldn't accept them. It looks like if I re-designed the push plate someday (seems like there are a few inches of wasted space), I can actually split the longer pieces I need for my OWB.

 

[salecker]

I wouldn't change the wedge to accommodate longer wood.My self i would change the cylinder.You have identified that it is in a wrong application.You can see on the beam where there was a mount for a longer cylinder.
You should be able;e to buy a new cylinder with a longer stroke that is a oil cylinder.Changing the mount for the rear would be easier than the wedge.Plus changing the wedge may make the distance to far for the air cylinder to split all longer wood in one stroke.
Or find a used one cheap.I bought a new cylinder for my tow truck for $300.00 canadien peso's.
One more tip...if you start having tires that go flat put a tube in them.The Mobile Home tires are awesome for carrying wight on paved roads.But they are high pressure tires with a low angle on the rim.If they have low pressure they don't seal as tight and can go flat easy.

 

[nezwick]

Ah, I guess I see what you mean about being limited by the stroke of the cylinder. The part I was going to change was the pusher plate that's attached to the cylinder, not the stationary wedge, but I now understand that would be equally as futile.

Good tip about the tubes. Although I am fortunate enough to have a family member who is in the business of moving pre-fab buildings, and he can just take bad tires/rims to some place and "exchange" them. One of the reasons all of the trailers my brother builds all have MH axles/tires. I wonder if I can have tubes put in the tires on the cement mixer. It was built 1958 or 59 and still has the original Seiberling tires (made right here in Barberton, OH) but they are dry rotted and don't hold air.

Back on topic, I used the splitter some more today. Did another 2/3 cord. It acted exactly the same as yesterday - temperamental at first, but once it "warmed up" it worked pretty decent.

 

[VirginiaIron]

For now, cook some soup from a can- Drill a tiny hole straight through the plug- install plug- place empty soup can On breather (plug) assembly. Go 2 town...

 

[brenndatomu]

Isn't there still a safety issue here with putting 1000, 2000, maybe more(?) PSI on an air cylinder rated for only a couple hundred?

 

[Jags]

Isn't there still a safety issue here with putting 1000, 2000, maybe more(?) PSI on an air cylinder rated for only a couple hundred?

I am interested in this as well. I am not familiar with air or the cylinder design/build. I do know one thing is that the rods that hold the end caps on that cylinder aren’t nearly as big in diameter as the ones on my 5”. I was hoping @kevin j might chime in on this.

 

[triptester]

The pressure rating is the pressure at which the cylinder was designed to operate without causing any damage to components. There is also a safety factor of 4 to 1 between working pressure and burst pressure. Burst pressure is the average pressure at which failure occurs.

 

[brenndatomu]

The pressure rating is the pressure at which the cylinder was designed to operate without causing any damage to components. There is also a safety factor of 4 to 1 between working pressure and burst pressure. Burst pressure is the average pressure at which failure occurs.

So that means this cyl would have a ~1000 PSI burst pressure then right?
IIRC there was a tag that rated it at 250 operating pressure...

 

[triptester]

Burst pressure is a average for a one time test. Subjecting the cylinder to above rated pressure slowly weakens the cylinder over time lowering the burst pressure.

 

[Ashful]

Can’t speak to this old rig, but the bypass on most modern splitters is set around 3000 - 3500 psi. So, your 4:1 safety factor on a 250 PSI working pressure is still dangerous territory.

 

[Jags]

Can’t speak to this old rig, but the bypass on most modern splitters is set around 3000 - 3500 psi.

Not sure this holds true. Most 2 stage splitter pumps have a max rating of 3000 PSI and I believe many of the box store type splitters are set somewhere below that. 2750 PSI is the numbers I have heard the most.
There are those on the market that will/can exceed these numbers, but I think that is the exception, not the rule.

That said, it sure doesn’t fix the potential issue of the OP using a cylinder not intended for typical splitter pressure.

 

[brenndatomu]

Maybe that fancy dancy pump does not develop high PSI? Or maybe a lower pressure regulator built into the system?
Guess we won't know until @nezwick gets a pressure gauge installed.

 

[Jags]

Guess we won't know until @nezwick gets a pressure gauge intalled.

Ding, Ding, Ding. Guessing at hydraulic pressure is the work of the devil.

 

[Ashful]

Maybe that fancy dancy pump does not develop high PSI? Or maybe a lower pressure regulator built into the system?
Guess we won't know until @nezwick gets a pressure gauge installed.

... and stalls the thing in something gnarly. Typical running pressure is no indication of bypass setting.

 

[greg13]

Maybe that fancy dancy pump does not develop high PSI? Or maybe a lower pressure regulator built into the system?
Guess we won't know until @nezwick gets a pressure gauge installed.

Axial piston pumps have the potential to build MORE pressure than gear type pumps. But you have a relief in the system to control the pressure, but with no gauge it it any one's guess what it is.

 

[brenndatomu]

Axial piston pumps have the potential to build MORE pressure than gear type pumps

Axial piston pump...oh yeah, I know what those are! Duh, had a lil brain fade there for a while!
For anyone not familiar...https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...3E292CC3FC2A2D4C93C03E292CC3FC2A2D4&FORM=VIRE
So I wonder how this one is set up? If it is variable displacement then the further you pull the lever the faster the ram will go...and the less power it will have...

 

[greg13]

Axial piston pump...oh yeah, I know what those are! Duh, had a lil brain fade there for a while!
For anyone not familiar...https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...3E292CC3FC2A2D4C93C03E292CC3FC2A2D4&FORM=VIRE
So I wonder how this one is set up? If it is variable displacement then the further you pull the lever the faster the ram will go...and the less power it will have...

That looked like a fixed plate to me, I didn't see any shaft on the side to vary the Swash plate angel.

 

[nezwick]

Tragedy strikes

So I got myself a gauge and 3 more buckets of hydraulic oil to do another oil change while I had everything apart. Wanted to do a little splitting just to get everything good and warmed up before the change... put a piece of hard maple on that must have been frozen because it just wouldn't crack and caused the engine to nearly stall. Once the engine recovered, I started hearing a knocking/banging noise coming from the pump, and the cylinder wouldn't move. Once I realized what was happening, I immediately shut down the pump. The noise stopped and the engine runs fine, so it's not coming from the engine. As soon as I try to re-engage the pump, I hear the banging noise again. Sounds like something inside the pump has failed. I stopped everything to prevent further damage.

I called around to a few hydraulic shops and they will diagnose for $50 (which is waived if I have them do repairs). Of course it would help to know the manufacturer/model of the pump. I might remove the pump and try to strip off some of the paint before I take it in. Messing with that is definitely not something I am comfortable doing DIY, even with the guidance of all you awesome people.

 

[Ashful]

I’d be inclined to just replace the pump, but knowing a new cylinder might be in the cards, we would need a decision on that, before sizing the pump. You reported engine is 18 hp, so you could swing a big pump.

I’m no hydraulics expert, but if it were mine, I’d buy 28 GPM 2-stage gear pump (the biggest you’re likely to find cheap), and the smallest bore cylinder I could find with 3/4” NPT (or SAE-12) ports. Then I’d ditch the unloader valve, and plumb it up simple, like any modern log splitter.

28 GPM could give you some pretty respectable stroke times. A 6” x 24” cylinder would be 12.6 seconds round trip, which is... meh. If you could find a 5” X 24” cylinder, you’d have a much more useable 8.7 seconds.

You’re unlikely to find a 4” x 24” cylinder with 3/4” ports (believe me, I’ve tried), without going custom, but that would get you a blistering 5.6 seconds round-trip time. Hoorah!

 

[nezwick]

Well I got the pump off the machine and I do want to at least take it in for an evaluation before replacing it. It's a cast iron monster and might be worth putting the money into rebuilding it - if it isn't completely trashed. We'll see.

greg13 and kevin j both win the prize - it's a Vickers.

The info was cast into the pump on the under-side (perhaps it was mounted upside down). Which also made me wonder, shouldn't a case drain be on the bottom and not the top, like, for draining?


Sperry Rand
Vickers
Model No. 239300
And another number cast just below the model number is E134


I found one on eBay but it isn't exactly the same. Removed from a Ditch Witch. I wonder if that's what my engine/pump combo came from - ditch witch, skid steer, etc.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Speary-Rand-VKKERS-Ditch-Witch-Hydraulic-Pump-239300/132284261200


When I turn the pump by hand, I can feel something inside rattling around and binding up. Definitely blew something up internally.

 

[nezwick]

If I do end up replacing with a new pump, any recommendations for a good American made brand that meets the figures you listed? I'll have the hydraulic shop spec something for me too, but I'd like to be able to make a good educated decision.

Ugh!

And truly, if I'm replacing the cylinder also, I'd rather go with a 30" so I can split pieces that are actually the full length of my OWB firebox. But we'll cross that bridge once I get the pump assessed.

 

[Ashful]

I’ll leave this to Greg and Kevin. I’m pretty sure, based on price if nothing else, the log splitter pumps I’ve bought were not made in America.

 

[greg13]

Due to the amount of moving parts in the pump You will probably feel things rattling around. I would just pop it apart and check it, if it came apart inside you WILL see it, Once you have it apart you will see how it works, it is actually pretty basic. Oil flows in,one port, as the shaft rotates the pistons push the oil under pressure out the other port. Just lay the parts out in order as they come out.If everything is in one piece put it back together.
Since you have an in & out box (clutch) between the motor & pump the problem may be there rather than the pump so check there first you may get lucky.

 

[nezwick]

An issue with the in & out box did cross my mind, like maybe it popped "partially" out during operation and just wouldn't go back in. I looked at it briefly, but I think my mind was primarily on the pump. The mechanisms inside the housing did move back and forth, the keyway looked intact, and everything was really dry. Wasn't sure if there is supposed to be grease or any other sort of lube inside that housing. Will need further research.

I can't find any info about my pump on the internet. Would be nice to have a service manual or some sort of exploded diagram, but I'll take your advice and crack it open tomorrow morning before taking to the shop. Was afraid that a bunch of spring-loaded or sensitive bits would come flying out and I'd never be able to get them back in. I had a trash pump apart once but that's about the extent of my experience with pumps.