2018-19 Blaze King Performance Thread Part 1 (Everything BK)

[chemie]

The Ashford fans can be loud on the high setting, as well, but I run my fans at or near the lowest setting all winter. I only turn them up when I'm trying to drive a big change in room temp fast, such as coming home to a cold house after vacation. I don't see much point on running them above a low setting, for 24/7 steady heating.

I am sensitive to the sounds. It kinda bothers me even at low. I hope I’ll get used to it.My wife , however, says fan noise doesn’t bother her. Manual says turn it high when stove is running high, turn it los, when it runs in low.

 

[matth]

i loaded my stove half full yesterday, today outside temperature was quite a bit warmer.
this morning the cat needle was barely in the active zone, with some wood left.
i did increase the air to maintain it above the active range but really did'nt need the warmth, could i just let the stove stall away or would that dommage the cat?

 

[showrguy]

i loaded my stove half full yesterday, today outside temperature was quite a bit warmer.
this morning the cat needle was barely in the active zone, with some wood left.
i did increase the air to maintain it above the active range but really did'nt need the warmth, could i just let the stove stall away or would that dommage the cat?

Nope, let it go, all the creo stuff is already gone by this point ..

 

[jetsam]

I got one of those stovetop thermoelectric fans, mainly because I found a well-rated one for $30. Once it gets below freezing, we'll see how much of the blower's job it can do. (Not trying it out yet because it'd just waste wood this time of year.)

I suspect it will end up getting disassembled and turned into a stovetop phone charger or light fixture or something. For $30, I got a $20 TEG and a nice big heat sink, so I won't be disappointed if I don't like the fan.

 

[Jeff in Maine]

I noticed last winter that they sounded a little louder than I thought they were the previously winter. I think the rough edge is at least part of the issue.

 

[chemie]

I got one of those stovetop thermoelectric fans, mainly because I found a well-rated one for $30. Once it gets below freezing, we'll see how much of the blower's job it can do. (Not trying it out yet because it'd just waste wood this time of year.)

I suspect it will end up getting disassembled and turned into a stovetop phone charger or light fixture or something. For $30, I got a $20 TEG and a nice big heat sink, so I won't be disappointed if I don't like the fan.

Do you have the same dilemma of wanting to use the stove but not wanting to waste/use your wood stock? I’m sure though you have much more space and supply than I have.

 

[ratsrepus]

fans bring the temp up real fast, I run them in the morning for a while, dont need to run them during the day, at least not yet.

 

[Ashful]

I am sensitive to the sounds. It kinda bothers me even at low. I hope I’ll get used to it.My wife , however, says fan noise doesn’t bother her. Manual says turn it high when stove is running high, turn it los, when it runs in low.

Two thoughts:

1. Not all fan sets are adjusted the same from BK. I bought two sets (one for each of my stoves), and one set ran much quieter and slower than the other. I learned there was a trimmer on the rheostat to adjust the low setting, and was able to tune down the louder/faster set to match the other.

(If you do this, use a plastic tuner screwdriver. Mine went “spark” and let out the factory-installed smoke during adjustment, and I had to send them back to BK for repair. I’m not sure why, the trimmer is plastic, and is supposed to be electrically isolated from the housing, but something went wrong there.)

2. If you needed to run the fans on high when the stove is on high, then what do people with no fans on their BK stoves do?

(Of course, this applies to freestanders, I have no experience with inserts.)

 

[kennyp2339]

2nd fire of the season coming my way when I get home, this one will stay lit over the weekend.. time to load the garage wood rack.

2. If you needed to run the fans on high when the stove is on high, then what do people with no fans on their BK stoves do?

I'm thinking opposite with that one, it would be useless to run the stove low with the fans on high, t-stat would want to open, but before it does you could have a dirtier burn, or possibly stall the cat. If the t-stat is on high with no fans then the t-stat will simply close off once it hits temp.

 

[chemie]

fans bring the temp up real fast, I run them in the morning for a while, dont need to run them during the day, at least not yet.

But you have freestanding stove than doesnt need much of a fan I assume. For the inserts, correct me if I am wrong, you almost need fan all the time?

 

[chemie]

Two thoughts:

1. Not all fan sets are adjusted the same from BK. I bought two sets (one for each of my stoves), and one set ran much quieter and slower than the other. I learned there was a trimmer on the rheostat to adjust the low setting, and was able to tune down the louder/faster set to match the other.

(If you do this, use a plastic tuner screwdriver. Mine went “spark” and let out the factory-installed smoke during adjustment, and I had to send them back to BK for repair. I’m not sure why, the trimmer is plastic, and is supposed to be electrically isolated from the housing, but something went wrong there.)

2. If you needed to run the fans on high when the stove is on high, then what do people with no fans on their BK stoves do?

(Of course, this applies to freestanders, I have no experience with inserts.)

I think for inserts it is almost a must to use the fan to efficiently distribute the heat because of limited exposed surface of the insert to the room.
When I get home, I'll take a video and post it to see if it is me or it is really loud on the low setting.

 

[jetsam]

Do you have the same dilemma of wanting to use the stove but not wanting to waste/use your wood stock? I’m sure though you have much more space and supply than I have.

I have more space, but I'm about 2 years behind right now because I've been very naughty about wood processing 2 years in a row. I'll have to be processing wood in the snow this year. Not the end of the world; I'll just burn mostly pine next year, which is fine with me.

I think for inserts it is almost a must to use the fan to efficiently distribute the heat because of limited exposed surface of the insert to the room.
When I get home, I'll take a video and post it to see if it is me or it is really loud on the low setting.

I don't use my fan until it's around freezing. My Princess Insert will go 24 hours with no fan in shoulder season, half of that with the fan on.

 

[mcdeadstein]

I have more space, but I'm about 2 years behind right now because I've been very naughty about wood processing 2 years in a row. I'll have to be processing wood in the snow this year. Not the end of the world; I'll just burn mostly pine next year, which is fine with me.



I don't use my fan until it's around freezing. My Princess Insert will go 24 hours with no fan in shoulder season, half of that with the fan on.

I don't get the not using fans part. I understand it will keep the stove hotter, cat active, and elongate burn times but for an insert it seems like much of the heat wouldn't be distributed. Maybe with the princess, since it sticks out further, it would be more effective. I'll have to try it with my Ashford insert but it is a nearly flush install. Running with no fans would likely mean just a little passive heat exchange and not much effect on heating the house. Again...i'll have to experiment on this. I just took the manual's instructions at face value and run the fan same setting as the thermostat. I have noticed that i can drop the cat temp by doing so and have knocked it out of the active zone with the fan on too high of a setting.

To achieve the super long burn times do I need to run the insert on low with no fans?

 

[Highbeam]

I don't get the not using fans part. I understand it will keep the stove hotter, cat active, and elongate burn times but for an insert it seems like much of the heat wouldn't be distributed. Maybe with the princess, since it sticks out further, it would be more effective. I'll have to try it with my Ashford insert but it is a nearly flush install. Running with no fans would likely mean just a little passive heat exchange and not much effect on heating the house. Again...i'll have to experiment on this. I just took the manual's instructions at face value and run the fan same setting as the thermostat. I have noticed that i can drop the cat temp by doing so and have knocked it out of the active zone with the fan on too high of a setting.

To achieve the super long burn times do I need to run the insert on low with no fans?

The princess freestander manual has the same guidance for fan operation. I think it is more of a maximum, they don't want you running the fans on high with the stat on low. Fans are optional.

Also remember that you probably aren't actually cooling the cat with the fans but are just cooling off the cat thermometer.

 

[Tegbert]

I don't get the not using fans part. I understand it will keep the stove hotter, cat active, and elongate burn times but for an insert it seems like much of the heat wouldn't be distributed. Maybe with the princess, since it sticks out further, it would be more effective. I'll have to try it with my Ashford insert but it is a nearly flush install. Running with no fans would likely mean just a little passive heat exchange and not much effect on heating the house. Again...i'll have to experiment on this. I just took the manual's instructions at face value and run the fan same setting as the thermostat. I have noticed that i can drop the cat temp by doing so and have knocked it out of the active zone with the fan on too high of a setting.

To achieve the super long burn times do I need to run the insert on low with no fans?

I’ll run my fans on low throughout the night and on cool days. On the mornings where it’s cold out but then slowly rises to 65 or so outside I’ll leave the fans off. The insert will keep the house warm and sometimes too warm even through the evening time. I’ve reloaded a couple times after days like this and not turned the fans on and the house ends up staying in the high 60’s low 70’s. But if I did that on a cold house and stove it would take too long to heat up the rest of the house without the use of the fans.

I have noticed I get 12-14 hours on low with fans and about 18-19 on low with no fans on.


Lopi Rockport
Blaze King Ashford 25

 

[jetsam]

I don't get the not using fans part. I understand it will keep the stove hotter, cat active, and elongate burn times but for an insert it seems like much of the heat wouldn't be distributed. Maybe with the princess, since it sticks out further, it would be more effective. I'll have to try it with my Ashford insert but it is a nearly flush install. Running with no fans would likely mean just a little passive heat exchange and not much effect on heating the house. Again...i'll have to experiment on this. I just took the manual's instructions at face value and run the fan same setting as the thermostat. I have noticed that i can drop the cat temp by doing so and have knocked it out of the active zone with the fan on too high of a setting.

To achieve the super long burn times do I need to run the insert on low with no fans?

I don't know how well a completely flush insert would heat with no fans. The PI sticks out about a foot and does very well heating the house without fans in shoulder season.

As to the second question- your thermostat does not have unlimited range on the air flapper- if the dial is on minimum, the thermostat can't open the air all the way to try to meet its target temperature, so it's quite possible to kill the cat with the fan.

For me on low burn, running the fan on low cuts burn time by at least half. This might sound like a lot, but consider- the stove is burning super low, making not so much heat. You blow a fan right over the firebox and cat, the thermostat opens up to keep the firebox temp up... and due to the constant cooling, the air stays far wider open than it would with no fan, so the wood goes much faster.

If the fan provides enough cooling to knock the cat out, then you're really wasting wood. Not only will the thermostat never catch up, but a lot of your BTUs are going up the chimney unburned.

 

[Ashful]

I don’t see any first-order reason why people can’t get the same burn time with fans on vs. off. Yes, the fan cools your thermostat a little, which causes it to open a bit more, so just turn it down to compensate. I understand there are dynamics at play here, the amount by which the fans affect the thermostat will vary throughout the burn cycle, but those are second-order effects. You should be able to compensate for any fan speed’s effect on burn rate, by adjusting the thermostat, with just a little trial and error.

 

[jetsam]

I don’t see any first-order reason why people can’t get the same burn time with fans on vs. off. Yes, the fan cools your thermostat a little, which causes it to open a bit more, so just turn it down to compensate. I understand there are dynamics at play here, the amount by which the fans affect the thermostat will vary throughout the burn cycle, but those are second-order effects. You should be able to compensate for any fan speed’s effect on burn rate, by adjusting the thermostat, with just a little trial and error.

As you know, it's a steel box with a fire barely smoldering inside, and with a second hot spot at the top reburning all those gasses. If you blow a fan over the box at the top, you cool the whole box a lot. Thermostat calls for more air.

The effect is just really pronounced at minimum burn where the heat removed by the fan approaches the amount of heat being generated by the fire and cat.

I'd guess that at a medium burn, the fan being off or on might impact burn times by ~10% (guessing since I don't really run my stove on medium with the fan off). The difference here is that the stove is generating way more heat than the low fan is removing- the numbers aren't even close.

At lowest burn, it's a 50% swing, and I am comfortable with that number because I really do burn my stove that way. That number is a little skewed though because "minimum" is a slightly lower setting with no fan than it is with low fan.

I may see it more than you do also because the fan is a bigger fraction of my thermal transfer, due to the obvious differences between a semiflush insert and a freestanding stove.

 

[chemie]

I appreciate if BKVP weights in about the effect of fan on the wood consumption at low setting of stove and fan in inserts like AF25 or Princess.

 

[BKVP]

I don't know how well a completely flush insert would heat with no fans. The PI sticks out about a foot and does very well heating the house without fans in shoulder season.

As to the second question- your thermostat does not have unlimited range on the air flapper- if the dial is on minimum, the thermostat can't open the air all the way to try to meet its target temperature, so it's quite possible to kill the cat with the fan.

For me on low burn, running the fan on low cuts burn time by at least half. This might sound like a lot, but consider- the stove is burning super low, making not so much heat. You blow a fan right over the firebox and cat, the thermostat opens up to keep the firebox temp up... and due to the constant cooling, the air stays far wider open than it would with no fan, so the wood goes much faster.

If the fan provides enough cooling to knock the cat out, then you're really wasting wood. Not only will the thermostat never catch up, but a lot of your BTUs are going up the chimney unburned.

So keep in mind, you're not taking the cat below active, you're dropping the thermometer reading. Turn off fans and it will go back up.

 

[jetsam]

So keep in mind, you're not taking the cat below active, you're dropping the thermometer reading. Turn off fans and it will go back up.

I think you can tell the difference by looking at the flue exhaust (until late in the burn, anyway)- if you see any smoke, the cat is off the job.

This is one thing I am liking about the new steel cat- the lower lightoff temp allows lower burns in warm weather.

Fans in shoulder season are a non-issue for me since I get good heat without them.

For the flush insert guys, I'd suggest just trying a minimum burn without fans and see if you get enough heat or not. Figuring out where your minimum is takes some trial and error.

 

[chemie]

I think you can tell the difference by looking at the flue exhaust (until late in the burn, anyway)- if you see any smoke, the cat is off the job.

This is one thing I am liking about the new steel cat- the lower lightoff temp allows lower burns in warm weather.

Fans in shoulder season are a non-issue for me since I get good heat without them.

For the flush insert guys, I'd suggest just trying a minimum burn without fans and see if you get enough heat or not. Figuring out where your minimum is takes some trial and error.

Princess insert sticks out further than AF25, if I am not mistaken.Thus it may heat better than AF25 without fans on. Princess also has higher BTU output than AF25 so again without fan , you may still get the needed heat without fan o. during the shoulder season. This is coming from someone with zero experience, so I may be wrong. Or I should say with two fire experience from cold. ...To be honest , just one. Today’s fire has been set by the better half [emoji4]
When BK tests for their inserts and gets up-to 25 hr burning time for AF25 , do they do it with fan on or off? Coming back to my original question for BKVP, does fan affect wood consumption in the low settings, as experienced by jetsam in his princess insert?

 

[BKVP]

Princess insert sticks out further than AF25, if I am not mistaken.Thus it may heat better than AF25 without fans on. Princess also has higher BTU output than AF25 so again without fan , you may still get the needed heat without fan o. during the shoulder season. This is coming from someone with zero experience, so I may be wrong. Or I should say with two fire experience from cold. ...To be honest , just one. Today’s fire has been set by the better half [emoji4]
When BK tests for their inserts and gets up-to 25 hr burning time for AF25 , do they do it with fan on or off? Coming back to my original question for BKVP, does fan affect wood consumption in the low settings, as experienced by jetsam in his princess insert?

Yes.

 

[chemie]

Yes.

Does BK have any data about how much using fan would affect wood consumption? Is it as dramatic as jetsam experienced like %50 difference?

 

[Diabel]

I asked this question earlier and I think it got lost in this thread.

Is it normal to see some (whitish smoke and it is not steam) out the chimney while the cat meter is at around 1 o’clock. And it happens intermittently.