Burning Through The Day When No One Is At Home

[wooduser]

If no one is home, why heat during the day?

Suppose you fire things up and let them burn as long as they will, and accept that the fire will die down or go out.

It usually takes a house a long time, 24 hours or longer to really get thoroughly cold.

When you get home, stoke things up and you'll be back in business in an hour or two.

Most people with central heating buy thermostats that will let the house cool off during the day and at night ----why must wood burners not want to do that?

There are reasons why letting a house cool off during the day would be worthwhile, and reasons why it would not be worthwhile, especially during very cold weather, I suppose.

But this is a pretty common practice among people with central heating systems, while wood burners seem particularly interested in keeping those temperatures up overnight and during the day. Why is that?

 

[ratsrepus]

I always thought that maintaining a constant temperature instead of letting everything cool down was the most efficient way to burn with radiant equipment.

 

[wooduser]

The science is that the cheapest thing to do is not to heat your space at all.

Any time you have a temperature differential between the inside of a house and the outside, you will have heat flowing from the warmer to the colder side.

So it takes MONEY to operate an AC and keep a space cold in the summer, and MONEY (or a wood stove and labor) to keep a space warm in the winter.

If you reduce the temperature differential between the indoors and outdoors by letting the house cool off during the day, you reduce the BTU heat loss and it will take fewer BTUs to heat the space back up than if you kept the heat up all day.

That's the theory behind the popularity of night setback thermostats.

Of course, with a night setback thermostat and a central heating system the temperature may be programmed to drop from 75 degrees to 70 degrees before turning on the furnace.

If a wood stove is permitted to go out, the temperature may drop from 75 degrees to 40 degrees overnight! There's a difference!

But here in Seattle, Wa , temperatures during the winter are usually quite moderate, and leaving the house to cool off can be a reasonable strategy..

You guys in much colder climates probably don't find a big temperature differential that you have to overcome as much fun.

I've also considered that it's just FUN to throw a nice big chunk of oak in the stove and to let 'r burn!

 

[blacktail]

The need to keep it going all day will depend a lot on location. In Western Washington it's probably not as important as, say, Minnesota.

 

[Mike.O]

There are lots evening and weekend burners.

There's a huge difference starting these larger stoves from a cold start vs a hot coal start. On a cold start my PE Summit takes a good hour to get up to temp and secondaries burning, then longer to start heating the room. From a warm start (200-250 in the morning or after work), secondaries are burning in 20 minutes and I'm heating the house.

Also, the house stays warm if I burn all day. If i didn't stuff it before I left, I'd come home to a house in the 50's and a ice cold stove. I'd be getting into bed before the house was up into the 70s.

If the stove is capable of burning all day/night, I don't see why would you not? It's not hard for me to throw some wood in it in the morning.

Just to counter your point, I think furnace users might find the best results to maintain a relatively steady indoor temp. Its far better for a furnace to work more often and easier, than work like a dog for a for 6 hours in the evening trying to raise the inside temp significantly.

 

[Squirrel]

Being retired I spend a lot of time at home. We live in a small house and spend most of our time in a fairly small open space of about 500 square feet. This space is heated by a small cast iron stove with electric heating set to about 17C/63F.
From a cold start I can boil a small amount of water on top of the stove in 15 minutes, by that time the top of the stove is giving off a fair bit of radiant energy, half an hour later the whole stove can be hot enough to radiate through the whole space. Once the stove is radiating well you feel warm in that space no matter what the temperature of the air, just like being outside on a cold, calm, sunny day. The only thermometer I look at is a flue probe on the stove pipe when loading the stove. I don't care how warm the house is as long as I am comfortable.
My stove is not a house heater or a space heater it is a people heater. As long as we have electricity to stop the pipes freezing when we are not home I am very happy.

 

[jetsam]

I burn 24/7 in all weather, from whenever in the year the living room goes below 70 to whenever it stays above 70 without help. This year I started sometime in October, will probably go until May, with the fire going out a couple times for chimney cleaning.

I could get by on less wood if I did shoulder season fires as needed to warm up the house from 60 to 70, but 1) I don't like it when it's 60 inside 2) Starting up the stove every day takes too long, and 3) Wood is free if you're willing to process it!

Having a fancy stove enabled this heating style. I wouldn't be doing this with the stoves I grew up with- but when you have a stove that goes super low and burns for 24 hours plus... why not use it?

The old stoves were fun too though. It's fun to get the old monster roaring and blast a place from 50 to 80 in the morning. It also takes a lot of wood, a lot of time, and getting up and dressed when it's cold inside stinks. Don't miss it that much!

To the point about efficiency: My stove is much more efficient burning low than high. I use significantly less wood keeping the house always at 70 than I would if I did a hot fire whenever I got home from work.

(Footnote for geeks: Yes, a 50 degree envelope is losing less BTUs than a 70 degree envelope on a cold day, but the BTU cost of starting a cold stove is very high also, especially since you don't have any secondary combustion for the first part if the stove starts cold. Not only that, but my stove is actually more efficient at a low burn, so I have a double incentive there.)

 

[weatherguy]

I don't want to come home from work to a cold house and have to get a fire going and I don't want to wake up to a cold house, I load my stove 3 times a day, twice in shoulder season and the house is always warm.

 

[jetsam]

I don't want to come home from work to a cold house and have to get a fire going and I don't want to wake up to a cold house, I load my stove 3 times a day, twice in shoulder season and the house is always warm.

I think you just condensed my entire post down to a small paragraph.

Are you looking for work as a part time copy editor?

 

[weatherguy]

I think you just condensed my entire post down to a small paragraph.

Are you looking for work as a part time copy editor?

no but thanks for the offer

 

[edyit]

I have pets, and live in a much different climate zone than you, i also want to come home to a warm house after working all day

 

[Ashful]

What @weatherguy said is the best answer, but there’s also this:

You are only looking at net energy loss and consumption, while ignoring power limitations. It takes a LOT more power to drive a temperature change over a small time interval. In layman’s terms, no stove on earth has the horsepower required to swing my house by five or ten degrees in an hour.

 

[old greybeard]

Can’t say I see a issue with a decent insulated house. Get the fire going, puts out good heat for 4 hours, have good coals after 8 when you get home. Without even bringing on the heat pump as backup my house will stay warm. And with the hp at 65 no issues.
Even at our drafty cabin we just set the propane to kick in at 65 when we are out hunting all day. Would be nice if we actually got 8-10 hours of heat out of the stove, but even getting 4 hours of cheap wood heat will save $$

 

[7acres]

I like the fact that I heat my house with resources from my property and pay no money for the wood. We love keeping our house ~75F during Winter and 71F during the heat of the Summer. Is this wasteful? People would think so. But I get great satisfaction of keeping my home so comfortable. Totally worth it.

 

[Ashful]

Can’t say I see a issue with a decent insulated house. Get the fire going, puts out good heat for 4 hours, have good coals after 8 when you get home. Without even bringing on the heat pump as backup my house will stay warm. And with the hp at 65 no issues.
Even at our drafty cabin we just set the propane to kick in at 65 when we are out hunting all day. Would be nice if we actually got 8-10 hours of heat out of the stove, but even getting 4 hours of cheap wood heat will save $$

Your assumptions probably apply to the majority, but not all houses are the same. We live in an area with a lot of 250 year old uninsulated stone houses. Without constant heat, interior temps drop to about 55F, very fast. The flip side is that I could leave this house unheated for a month thru winter, and it would never freeze, our stone walls hold around 53F all winter.

 

[wooduser]

Thanks to all for some great replies!

<<Also, the house stays warm if I burn all day. If i didn't stuff it before I left, I'd come home to a house in the 50's and a ice cold stove. I'd be getting into bed before the house was up into the 70s.

It occurs to me that this appears to be one of the drawbacks and weaknesses of certified stoves.

With my old uncertified stove, I can have a cold stove up to a 500 degree stack temperature in 15 minutes or so, with radiant heat following right along, and convective heat warming the air not taking much longer.

But others make the point that despite this drawback of certified stoves, the overall level of efficiency makes them still a substantial plus. I agree that's a useful point.

<<I have pets, and live in a much different climate zone than you, i also want to come home to a warm house after working all day

I was amused by edyit's comment above! His pets live in the lap of luxury!


<<I like the fact that I heat my house with resources from my property and pay no money for the wood. We love keeping our house ~75F during Winter and 71F during the heat of the Summer. Is this wasteful? People would think so. But I get great satisfaction of keeping my home so comfortable. Totally worth it.

I liked 7acres declaration of independence from environmentalist suffering above, as well!


<<The need to keep it going all day will depend a lot on location. In Western Washington it's probably not as important as, say, Minnesota.


THAT is certainly true!


Thanks for the varied comments. Lots of interesting ideas motivating woodburners.

 

[Woody Stover]

I was amused by edyit's comment above! His pets live in the lap of luxury!

If I ever let it get down to 65 in here, my dogs start standing around the stove with their hands on their hips.

If i didn't stuff it before I left, I'd come home to a house in the 50's and a ice cold stove. I'd be getting into bed before the house was up into the 70s.

This place has thermal mass, 1"+ of cement-type wallboard and no insulation between that and the exterior logs. I can't even raise room temp one degree an hour. If it's single digits and windy outside, recovery is even slower.

 

[bholler]

Thanks to all for some great replies!

<<Also, the house stays warm if I burn all day. If i didn't stuff it before I left, I'd come home to a house in the 50's and a ice cold stove. I'd be getting into bed before the house was up into the 70s.

It occurs to me that this appears to be one of the drawbacks and weaknesses of certified stoves.

With my old uncertified stove, I can have a cold stove up to a 500 degree stack temperature in 15 minutes or so, with radiant heat following right along, and convective heat warming the air not taking much longer.

But others make the point that despite this drawback of certified stoves, the overall level of efficiency makes them still a substantial plus. I agree that's a useful point.

<<I have pets, and live in a much different climate zone than you, i also want to come home to a warm house after working all day

I was amused by edyit's comment above! His pets live in the lap of luxury!


<<I like the fact that I heat my house with resources from my property and pay no money for the wood. We love keeping our house ~75F during Winter and 71F during the heat of the Summer. Is this wasteful? People would think so. But I get great satisfaction of keeping my home so comfortable. Totally worth it.

I liked 7acres declaration of independence from environmentalist suffering above, as well!


<<The need to keep it going all day will depend a lot on location. In Western Washington it's probably not as important as, say, Minnesota.


THAT is certainly true!


Thanks for the varied comments. Lots of interesting ideas motivating woodburners.

Have you ever burnt a "certified" stove???

They can do exactly what you described. But that doesnt mean the house will warm up that fast. It can take hours. And btw we are probably using less wood burning 24/7 with our modern stoves than you are only heating when you are there. I think you need to read and learn allot more before making all of these assumptions.

 

[coaly]

If my stove wasn't going all day, my cat would probably pee on my side of the bed.

You're comparing central heating systems capable of raising the temperature much faster to wood stoves rated at lower capacities that require constant btu per hour output to equal the higher output of the central heating system in a 24 hour period.

Our heat cycles with wood burning is at their low in the morning, requiring the stove to be reloaded to recover. This cooks our breakfast. When leaving for the day, it is loaded so the next low cycle is when we get back home, then loaded again. This cooks our supper. Finally reloaded for the overnight burn. If one of those heat cycles is missed, temperature swings create uneven heating. That worked well back in the day before central heating systems too. Then came central coal fired furnaces that were maintained morning and night to maintain even heating. And the need for a gas or electric range. I went to a central oil fired heating system in 1978 for 2 years and right back to wood. I just bought a half tank of fuel oil for one of our rental homes that is unoccupied this month for $438.00. That is half my total heating cost for the entire season with coal at my home ! I'm not about to go back to central heating anytime soon.

My reasons to keep a steady fire 24/7;

It does not take an hour or two to bring the temperature from 61- 64 to 68 or 70 in a 2000 sf house. More like 4 hours or more depending on outdoor temperature and weather conditions. (atmospheric air pressure and altitude) Then the stove is so hot, the temp continues to rise, actually wasting fuel and becoming uncomfortably warm. The stove is also more efficient with a low to mid size fire than firing hard loosing more heat up the chimney. It also uses less coal when fired with that fuel cracking the air open for constant heat delivery, than closing it down to a minimal burn daily and opening it up fully to warm a cooler building. This is a stove weighing close to 1000 pounds to heat up. It is like a freight train. Slow to start and get radiating, but when up to temp there is no stopping it quickly.

This is my only heat source. No automatic thermostats or secondary heat sources. Any damp or wet wood brought in takes time to dry next to the stove before loading. I may not have good dry wood to fire a cold home after loosing a fire all day. Major problem.

With no other heat sources, water in pipes in remote areas can freeze. -10 or -15 outside can easily freeze water lines in my mud room if the interior door isn't left open overnight and cupboard doors under sink are closed. Our stove has a 3000 sf heating capacity to heat a 2000 sf area during extreme cold times. It stays below freezing for the duration of over a month most winters here.

My stove is also a cook stove, with oven and water heating capability. It takes hours to reheat 25 gallons of water in the stainless steel rear mounted cistern. Oven heating is much faster with an already warm stove. Getting home at 5 PM to a cold oven would possibly be cooking in a 350* oven by 8 PM or later. The oven stays at 350* when in operation and is always ready. During cold spells the oven door can be left open for increased heating capacity.

Sunny or cloudy days make a huge difference. When outdoor temps stay below freezing, with no sun, a fire is required all day. At 0* f and below, a constant fire is needed to maintain the temperature and gaining a few degrees can be difficult with no sun with smaller stoves.

If we allowed our fire to go out, then came home to a cold house that required us to fire it hard for many hours, what would happen if an emergency situation arose that we had to bank the fire off and leave for a few hours? An even colder house that could take a day to recover?

Wood burners with stoves in their basements burn constant to radiate heat into their masonry mass. It takes about 1/3 more BTU to heat an un-insulated underground basement. The thermal mass that radiates back into the building is delayed by many hours. 3 or 4 AM is when you will notice a temperature increase from daytime solar gain in a normal size home. Larger areas can take a day or more to respond to temperature swings. Constant is the way to heat in those applications.

Mobile homes with thin walls and greater heat loss cool down fast and tend to be hot when you're heating and cold when you're not. Mobile home stoves are smaller with less ability to "catch up", so constant heating is preferred. They also have water lines in the floor so require hotter indoor temps.

Getting home to a cold home during a low pressure event such as East Coast storms and lows off shore, make a stove very slow to respond. It could take all night to recover.

Building construction can have a lot to do with the way you burn as well. As I mentioned with basements and mobile homes.
I have a log cabin that requires the same constant burning. The mass from a solid log wall radiates back into the indoor area instead of insulation in walls holding heat in. Unfortunately, log homes radiate outside loosing tons of heat as well. You could not heat that type of construction allowing a fire to go out. My cabin is off grid with no other heat source as well. When in use, it is burning 24/7 and takes 3 days to stabilize. Again the stove there is oversize due to getting there with close to outdoor temperatures inside.

If your power went off after a storm for 5 or 6 days and you relied on your stove to heat the home, heat your water, and cook, would you let it go out all day? Keeping a steady fire becomes very important. A few days of that will teach you how to keep a steady temperature in your home. My indoor temps range from 66 to 72 all winter with no cooking or hot water heating bills. You learn to bake and dry laundry on the coldest days or simmer soups and stews all day putting the heat to use during the day.

Another factor you're overlooking when allowing air to cool is the lower capacity of the cooler air to hold water vapor. It makes it difficult to control indoor humidity. Colder surfaces at lower indoor temperatures allow condensing, removing the water vapor from the air. Mold growth starts with poor circulation, and many suffer sinus issues without constant humidification with a more constant heat source.

 

[wooduser]

<<
↑
I was amused by edyit's comment above! His pets live in the lap of luxury!
If I ever let it get down to 65 in here, my dogs start standing around the stove with their hands on their hips.
Heh, heh! Spoiled ROTTEN!
<<If my stove wasn't going all day, my cat would probably pee on my side of the bed.
Now I call THAT a convincing argument!
Thanks for all the explanations.

For non woodburners with central heating, most people dote on their setback thermostats, which often encourage multiple reductions in temperature, overnight, while at work and so on.

And most installations of furnaces these days don't have grossly overlarge furnaces, as in the old days.

So I was wondering why the difference in practices.

One reason not related to woodburning is that the central heating crowd commonly has perhaps a 5 degree setback before the central heating turns on. So they are scarcely making use of the setback feature,

This thread is a good example of the "style" I see in how people use their stoves. While central heating installations are usually about setting the thermostat and not much else, woodburning has a large degree of personal habits that people develope over time to meet their personal needs and desires ----this amounts to a personal style people develop rather than being heavily influenced by the news media and other style setters in this society,.

So you guys ---- we, seem to be more independent and problem solving than most, at least regarding the heating of homes.

Thanks for all the comments, especially those involving dogs and cats!

 

[bholler]

<<
↑
I was amused by edyit's comment above! His pets live in the lap of luxury!
If I ever let it get down to 65 in here, my dogs start standing around the stove with their hands on their hips.


Heh, heh! Spoiled ROTTEN!



<<If my stove wasn't going all day, my cat would probably pee on my side of the bed.


Now I call THAT a convincing argument!


Thanks for all the explanations.

For non woodburners with central heating, most people dote on their setback thermostats, which often encourage multiple reductions in temperature, overnight, while at work and so on.

And most installations of furnaces these days don't have grossly overlarge furnaces, as in the old days.

So I was wondering why the difference in practices.

One reason not related to woodburning is that the central heating crowd commonly has perhaps a 5 degree setback before the central heating turns on. So they are scarcely making use of the setback feature,

This thread is a good example of the "style" I see in how people use their stoves. While central heating installations are usually about setting the thermostat and not much else, woodburning has a large degree of personal habits that people develope over time to meet their personal needs and desires ----this amounts to a personal style people develop rather than being heavily influenced by the news media and other style setters in this society,.

So you guys ---- we, seem to be more independent and problem solving than most, at least regarding the heating of homes.


Thanks for all the comments, especially those involving dogs and cats!

I really dont see even the slightest connection between heating with wood and being influenced by media or style setters.

 

[wooduser]

I might add that my style revolves around the very moderate climate to be found in Seattle, Wa and my old, uncertified wood stove. Also I'm a retiree, so I decide how to spend my day myself. I live alone.

I actually plan my departures to coincide with my stove burning down and the temperature going down as well. So when I return the temperature can be down pretty significantly ---perhaps 15-20 degrees as an offhand estimate.

That provides me with an incentive to get the stove going and HOT! I may get it from a cold start to 400-500m degrees in, oh, 15-20 minutes or so. At that point it's starting to provide radiant heat, which I can bask in. I have about an 800 square foot main room, so heating that up doesn't take long. I usually aim for 600 degrees as a maximum regular operating temperature as measured with a good quality probe thermometer in the flue pipe.

But even so, I'm usually happy with a 400-500 degree stack temperature for raising the temperature. I'm quite flexible about adding or removing clothing to adjust to temperatures that I can maintain conveniently.

Another factor is probably that I burn scrap wood, mostly soft wood, which usually doesn't offer a long burn time.

So it sounds like my style is to allow those wide swings in temperature, and to adapt to them. That's probably why I found the consistent emphasis on long burn times when people weren't at home surprising.

I again thank everyone for introducing me to their personal style of operating their stove and heating their home.

 

[bholler]

I might add that my style revolves around the very moderate climate to be found in Seattle, Wa and my old, uncertified wood stove. Also I'm a retiree, so I decide how to spend my day myself. I live alone.

I actually plan my departures to coincide with my stove burning down and the temperature going down as well. So when I return the temperature can be down pretty significantly ---perhaps 15-20 degrees as an offhand estimate.

That provides me with an incentive to get the stove going and HOT! I may get it from a cold start to 400-500m degrees in, oh, 15-20 minutes or so. At that point it's starting to provide radiant heat, which I can bask in. I have about an 800 square foot main room, so heating that up doesn't take long. I usually aim for 600 degrees as a maximum regular operating temperature as measured with a good quality probe thermometer in the flue pipe.

But even so, I'm usually happy with a 400-500 degree stack temperature for raising the temperature. I'm quite flexible about adding or removing clothing to adjust to temperatures that I can maintain conveniently.

Another factor is probably that I burn scrap wood, mostly soft wood, which usually doesn't offer a long burn time.

So it sounds like my style is to allow those wide swings in temperature, and to adapt to them. That's probably why I found the consistent emphasis on long burn times when people weren't at home surprising.

I again thank everyone for introducing me to their personal style of operating their stove and heating their home.

It also has allot to do with your stove. Old epa stoves simply dont give you the long more even heat of even tube stoves. Then there are cat stoves which last even longer and give more even heat.

 

[Ashful]

Then there are cat stoves which last even longer and give more even heat.

Attention @jetsam, the infection has taken hold.

 

[jetsam]

Attention @jetsam, the infection has taken hold.

Maintain radio silence, subject may be monitoring this channel.