New guy questions

[patriot07]

Alright, first time wood stover buyer here. Always had fireplaces and they put out almost zero heat. We recently moved and there is no way to get a fireplace into this house so we thought about maybe a wood stove and the more I read, the more I love the idea. Wife loves it as well. But we do have a handful of questions:

House is around 2300 square feet. The stove wouldn't need to heat the whole house, but I wouldn't mind if it did - just don't want something too huge. Looking at Drolet, Pleasant Hearth, Englander - anything in the $700-$1500 price range. Do you guys have a recommendation for a new guy?

Second question - we have wood trim ceilings (tongue & groove wood panels with paint on them) in the living room where this will be going...what do we need to install for the stove to be safe? Double wall pipe? Insulated pass-thru fitting? I have no clue

We're really excited about this new-to-us development and we'd really appreciate any help. We are in Texas so it doesn't get cold here but my wife is cold anytime it's under 80, so I'm hoping this will help make her less uncomfortable during the winter months.

 

[armanidog]

First, when do you plan to install this stove? Right now it is a seller's market due to low supply.
Second, a metal chimney system will cost around another $1000 or more depending on height, labor, and brand.
As far as clearances go you could look at the owners manuals online of the various stoves to see what clearances are required to various surfaces. A double wall chimney also has clearances posted in their manuals.
I have an Englander stove NC-32 installed in 2017. It is a plain stove and works well.
I purchased mine at Home Depot. They will ship to a local store for pickup.

Wood Stoves - Freestanding Stoves - The Home Depot

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Personally i would wait until spring/summer when prices should be lower and the supply should be better. Also you need dry wood which is either expensive for truly dry wood or not really dry. If you are sure to install a stove I would get the wood now and let it dry until next fall.

 

[patriot07]

First, when do you plan to install this stove? Right now it is a seller's market due to low supply.
Second, a metal chimney system will cost around another $1000 or more depending on height, labor, and brand.
As far as clearances go you could look at the owners manuals online of the various stoves to see what clearances are required to various surfaces. A double wall chimney also has clearances posted in their manuals.
I have an Englander stove NC-32 installed in 2017. It is a plain stove and works well.
I purchased mine at Home Depot. They will ship to a local store for pickup.

Wood Stoves - Freestanding Stoves - The Home Depot

Get free shipping on qualified Wood Stoves products or Buy Online Pick Up in Store today in the Heating, Venting & Cooling Department.

www.homedepot.com

Personally i would wait until spring/summer when prices should be lower and the supply should be better. Also you need dry wood which is either expensive for truly dry wood or not really dry. If you are sure to install a stove I would get the wood now and let it dry until next fall.

I already have wood I bought a couple years ago. I buy a bunch at a time so I don't have that issue.

I see clearances listed, but I assumed (maybe incorrectly) those were for sheet rock ceilings? I can't find anything for a wood panel ceiling. I've looked through a couple manuals...I did assume the clearances to walls would cover either paneling or sheet rock.

I saw lots of recommendations for Englander NC30 but it doesn't appear to be made anymore and I don't know how similar Englander's newer offerings are, or if they're as well-respected. NC32 doesn't seem to be available either unless I'm missing it?

 

[armanidog]

This has clearances to combustibles for metal chimneys, it looks like 2.5 inches for Class A chimneys. Sheet rock, rafters, wood ceilings, roof decking, studs, etc are all considered combustibles.

Fire Safety Clearance Requirements between Metal Chimneys & Combustible Materials

inspectapedia.com

Look on the England Wood Stove site for the newer model numbers. The EPA released new standards for wood stoves last year and a lot of model numbers have been changed since the manufacturers redesigned their stoves.

 

[patriot07]

This has clearances to combustibles for metal chimneys, it looks like 2.5 inches for Class A chimneys. Sheet rock, rafters, wood ceilings, roof decking, studs, etc are all considered combustibles.

Fire Safety Clearance Requirements between Metal Chimneys & Combustible Materials

inspectapedia.com

Look on the England Wood Stove site for the newer model numbers. The EPA released new standards for wood stoves last year and a lot of model numbers have been changed since the manufacturers redesigned their stoves.

Thanks, that's really, really helpful. I assume they're still doing the tax credit? Does it have to be a 2021-EPA-compliant stove to get it?

 

[EbS-P]

I decided on Drolet escape insert. I think it’s a good value for money. Same fire box is available as a stove. True North is another brand (value line of Pacific energy). The NC-30 had a good reputation but there just isn’t much data on its replacement.

Evan

 

[Woody Stover]

The stove wouldn't need to heat the whole house, but I wouldn't mind if it did - just don't want something too huge... my wife is cold anytime it's under 80, so I'm hoping this will help make her less uncomfortable during the winter months.

Use the search feature in the forums, and you'll find many threads about distributing heat out of the stove room and leveling temps throughout the house. You can try a small 8" desk fan on the floor in various locations to move dense, cooler air into the stove room, which displaces light, warmer air out the top of the doorway and keeps the stove room comfortable. Run the fan on low so as not to disrupt the natural convection loop, which is already working on its own to move warmer air to the cooler locations.
We don't live in TX but I can relate; 80* house temps were the norm here until a few weeks ago, and my body hasn't adjusted to ten degrees cooler quite yet. Extra clothes layers have been needed.
Englander and Drolet are well-regarded "value" brands here.
Welcome to the forums, and keep us up to date on the project. Plenty of knowledgeable folks here will help with any questions that may arise.

 

[patriot07]

I'm not super worried about distributing heat. I just want a decent quality heater and we can figure that out later.

 

[wjohn]

Thanks, that's really, really helpful. I assume they're still doing the tax credit? Does it have to be a 2021-EPA-compliant stove to get it?

Not only this, but it also has to have 75% HHV efficiency, which cuts down the list. A lot of stoves are 2021 complaint, but do not meet the 75% HHV efficiency requirement for the credit - so be sure you check those numbers on the stoves you're considering.

 

[patriot07]

Not only this, but it also has to have 75% HHV efficiency, which cuts down the list. A lot of stoves are 2021 complaint, but do not meet the 75% HHV efficiency requirement for the credit - so be sure you check those numbers on the stoves you're considering.

Wow...did not know that. Thanks!

 

[armanidog]

Wow...did not know that. Thanks!

Woodstove Database | Burnwise | US EPA

Englander wood stoves do not meet the 75% requirement. You can filter the database, it only shows 10 stoves at a time so you have to page through the results.

 

[begreen]

Not only this, but it also has to have 75% HHV efficiency, which cuts down the list. A lot of stoves are 2021 complaint, but do not meet the 75% HHV efficiency requirement for the credit - so be sure you check those numbers on the stoves you're considering.

There are many EPA 2020 qualifying stoves that are below the 75% threshold but for sale now. The savings with a lower cost stove may make the tax credit moot when comparing a $1000 stove to a $3500 stove.

@patriot07, how large is the area that the stove would be in? How open is this area to the rest of the house? Is the house one or two story? Also, who will be installing the stove and can we assume there is no chimney in place?

 

[wjohn]

There are many EPA 2020 qualifying stoves that are below the 75% threshold but for sale now. The savings with a lower cost stove may make the tax credit moot when comparing a $1000 stove to a $3500 stove.

Sure, if you can get the non-qualifying stove for 26% cheaper than an alternative qualifying stove PLUS another 26% cheaper than whatever the cost of the rest of installation will be. That up front installation cost will probably be similar if not the same between a qualifying and non-qualifying stove, but you don't get any credit on the install with a non-qualifying stove. Certainly if you can pick up a $1000 non-qualifying stove instead of the equivalent updated, qualifying model for 3x the price, that's great and probably makes sense - just don't forget that credit applies to the whole installation, so that stove will have to be at a huge discount.

 

[bholler]

All new stoves for sale now are 2020 EPA compliant. That doesn't mean they qualify for the tax credit

 

[begreen]

don't forget that credit applies to the whole installation, so that stove will have to be at a huge discount.

That is why the question of who is installing was asked.

 

[wjohn]

All new stoves for sale now are 2020 EPA compliant. That doesn't mean they qualify for the tax credit

Thanks, fixed my statement to say "qualifying model."

 

[patriot07]

There are many EPA 2020 qualifying stoves that are below the 75% threshold but for sale now. The savings with a lower cost stove may make the tax credit moot when comparing a $1000 stove to a $3500 stove.

@patriot07, how large is the area that the stove would be in? How open is this area to the rest of the house? Is the house one or two story? Also, who will be installing the stove and can we assume there is no chimney in place?

The living room, kitchen, and dining area is probably 700-800 square feet. Rest of the house is fairly open - no long hallways or anything. No chimney. Installer is just a random guy on facebook. One story except one loft bedroom on the far side of the house away from the likely stove location.

 

[begreen]

OK, I'd stick with an easy-breathing stove that is not too fussy on draft then. Drolet, Pacific Energy & Regency have stoves that will work on shorter 1 story chimneys. The Drolet 1800 or an HT3000 will work.

Be careful with the random guy. There's a lot that can be messed up if one has little experience with stove installs.

 

[patriot07]

I'm just looking for a recommendation on a decent brand. $3500 isn't in the budget. If nothing under $2k gets me a tax credit, I'll stick with the $1k options. Installation is supposed to be $600. I'm just looking for decent quality...but there seems to be very few reviews on the 2020+ models....?

 

[bholler]

I'm just looking for a recommendation on a decent brand. $3500 isn't in the budget. If nothing under $2k gets me a tax credit, I'll stick with the $1k options. Installation is supposed to be $600. I'm just looking for decent quality...but there seems to be very few reviews on the 2020+ models....?

I don't think anything under 2k qualifies for the tax credit. Only upper level stuff meets the requirement. And yeah there aren't going to be any long term reviews of most of the 2020 stuff it just hasn't been out long enough. I would be concerned about the level of knowledge of some random guy off Facebook only charging $600 for the install

 

[begreen]

I'm going to have to assume that the $600 is only the labor. Parts may be double that amount.

 

[wjohn]

I'm just looking for a recommendation on a decent brand. $3500 isn't in the budget. If nothing under $2k gets me a tax credit, I'll stick with the $1k options. Installation is supposed to be $600. I'm just looking for decent quality...but there seems to be very few reviews on the 2020+ models....?

The Pleasant Hearth 2200 might fit the ticket? They're $950 at Menards (not sure how far south the stores go) before the 11% rebate, and qualify for the tax credit. I would've considered it but it was way too large for my house.
https://www.menards.com/main/heatin...tove-2-200-sq-ft/lws-2200/p-1560752891192.htm

Agree there's no way $600 includes any pipe or related costs. I think I had close to $700 in the flue, ceiling support, flashing, etc. for my recent single story install (with my own free labor).

 

[patriot07]

I don't think anything under 2k qualifies for the tax credit. Only upper level stuff meets the requirement. And yeah there aren't going to be any long term reviews of most of the 2020 stuff it just hasn't been out long enough. I would be concerned about the level of knowledge of some random guy off Facebook only charging $600 for the install

To be fair, this is Texas. Wood burning stoves aren't a big thing down here. We have way more days over 100 than under freezing.

ETA: thanks for letting me know nothing under $2k qualifies. I'll just cross the EPA website off my list.

 

[bholler]

To be fair, this is Texas. Wood burning stoves aren't a big thing down here. We have way more days over 100 than under freezing.

ETA: thanks for letting me know nothing under $2k qualifies. I'll just cross the EPA website off my list.

It still lists all the stoves available for sale their BTU outputs efficiency etc. It seems I was wrong the pleasant hearth stove qualifies. Not sure how. Or if it will make it through the retest after they found some were cutting corners. But go for it.

 

[bholler]

I understand woodstoves aren't very common in Texas. But your installer still needs to know what they are doing which means training equipment insurance etc. As a pro I can tell you $600 is low for that work if they are qualified