2022-2023 BK everything thread

[BKVP]

Wow, $4400 for a 20.2? Does that sound right?

Call another BK dealer for a quote..

 

[gusguy]

Ok guys. Today was my first day actually going to two different dealers and seeing firsthand a BK stove. Between the dealers I was able to see a few different models. Enough go give me a decent idea of the physical size between units. Also the pricing, which was the same at both locations. Both dealers were using the same msrp sheet. The Ashford/Chinook 20.2 is listed around $4400, the Boxer 24 with the taller legs approx $5k. I can't remember off hand what the 30.2 stoves listed at. I felt the 30.2 stove is larger than I need for my size home and heat demand. Now the big question. Are these stoves really that much more efficient with burn times than a stove that will give a decent 10 hour burn? My heat demands arent that big, despite living in Minnesota where it gets pretty cold. My home is well insulated and protected from the nasty NW winds. My current wood furnace is more than enough to supply my needs. But I'm looking for a more efficient option to heat my 1300 sq ft, very open upstairs. I go back and forth on getting a regular non-cat stove and saving $$ unless the overall benefit is worth the added expense. What is a realistic burn time that could be expected with a 20.2 size firebox. My main wood is red oak and green ash, both make excellent firewood and my supply is endless. I looking ahead, on paper I'm getting older, but inside I still feel 25 yrs old. I realize there are many excellent brands to choose from which makes making a decision tougher. Thats why hearing opinions from actual owners is so important. I realized today stoves are in demand due to raising energy costs, etc. I've been burning wood since 1988 and have never had a heating bill. So I can justify the expense despite my need really isn't urgent. I dont want to cook myself out of my living area which is one reason for wanting a stove that can be turned way down. Thanks

Last year I put a new princess 32 in my 1100sqft basement for heating the basement only. It worked out perfect and I only burned about 2 cord of oak. There were a few times I had to open a window but I would chalk that up to operator error. These things can keep up when it's -30 or just maintain when it's mid 40s and rainy. They really are worth the money.

 

[reaperman1]

I'm all for low and slow, like smoking meat I have no doubt it could handle very cold weather like we get up here. Looking at the Kuma line, the comparable size stove only advertises a 9 hr burn with 81% efficiency. But also claims it can be turned down to approx 11k btu's. Which is very similar to the BK which advertises a longer burn time. Im just a bit confused, thats why I'm appreciating the input from anyone generous enough to reply with input. I really appreciate it.

I am a bit surprised other stove companies havent adopted the BK's dial thermostat system the puts the stove in its lowest burn mode. The patent must be expired by now.

 

[stoveliker]

 Burntime is an ill-defined concept. Is it until nothing glows? Until a fan goes off? Until a reload would not require matches? Until all wood is gone? I told no more usable heat comes off (which moves the uncertainty into the next thing - what is " usable heat"??).

Comparing burn times is tough.
My rule (for a BK) is when the cat falls out of that active range (but new cat vs older cat will be different too..). That allows me to take coals forward, and reload. For the 30 box, my max was 36 hrs.

I don't think you would be buying a bad stove if you go for the Kuma. The opposite; it seems to be a great stove.

If you're hesitant in regards to the price of a BK, you may be always asking yourself "what if I'd spent $2000 less, would I be as happy as I'm now?".
If that seems probable, then (personally) I'd go for the Kuma. If the usable space in the firebox is similar, you'll be getting something similar as a BK. The thermostat in a BK allows for a more even (and thus longer because no spikes) burn at the low end, but 9-12 hrs is great regardless.

It's a luxury position; two good options.

Which one would you (or your SO) still like to look at 20 yes from now?

 

[reaperman1]

 Burntime is an ill-defined concept. Is it until nothing glows? Until a fan goes off? Until a reload would not require matches? Until all wood is gone? I told no more usable heat comes off (which moves the uncertainty into the next thing - what is " usable heat"??).

Comparing burn times is tough.
My rule (for a BK) is when the cat falls out of that active range (but new cat vs older cat will be different too..). That allows me to take coals forward, and reload. For the 30 box, my max was 36 hrs.

I don't think you would be buying a bad stove if you go for the Kuma. The opposite; it seems to be a great stove.

If you're hesitant in regards to the price of a BK, you may be always asking yourself "what if I'd spent $2000 less, would I be as happy as I'm now?".
If that seems probable, then (personally) I'd go for the Kuma. If the usable space in the firebox is similar, you'll be getting something similar as a BK. The thermostat in a BK allows for a more even (and thus longer because no spikes) burn at the low end, but 9-12 hrs is great regardless.

It's a luxury position; two good options.

Which one would you (or your SO) still like to look at 20 yes from now?

I Agree with everything. I also know as soon as you purchase something, you forget how much money was spent. If I we’re making monthly payments for this purchase that could be a different story. I won’t be borrowing any $$ regardless of which stove I end up with. I just like to be an informed buyer vs an impulse buyer with buyers remorse. In reality, I really don’t need a wood stove. My wood furnace is more than capable of roasting me in -30f temps. I’m just trying to simplify things a bit. I also know if the upstairs gets too hot, my wife will have every door and window open until she says the temperature is just right. Not taking into account stove efficiencies, wood consumption, secondary burn, or an activated catalyst. Who thinks like that?? Women I guess

 

[Ashful]

$4400 is surprisingly high, based on what I paid for a pair of 30.2's in 2015, but I guess everything is going up.

But I also wouldn't compare a BK to a Drolet or Englander, any more than I'd compare the price of a Mercedes to a Kia, they're in completely different markets. Drolet and Englander may be among the best of the budget stoves on the market, but they're still aimed at the very budget conscious consumer, and make concessions to that end. If you wanted to compare BK to a full-featured non-cat, I'd think Jotul or Pacific Energy would be more appropriate comparisons.

Can't say enough about the burn times, and flexibility that brings you, when you're actually trying to heat a home with wood. But @stoveliker already did a great job of that, so I'll leave it there.

 

[reaperman1]

Sorry guys, I listed the price of a 20.2 at 4.4k, that’s the price of a 30.2. The 20.2, stove with a pedestal is 3.4k. This would be for the Sirocco model.

 

[Ashful]

Sorry guys, I listed the price of a 20.2 at 4.4k, that’s the price of a 30.2. The 20.2, stove with a pedestal is 3.4k. This would be for the Sirocco model.

Still higher than I expected, but maybe not out of line, given the way all materials and components have been going up.

Either way, I'd follow BKVP's advice and get a few quotes. I had three dealers quote my pair of Ashford 30.2's, and price varied $5k to over $8k for the pair, delivered without setup. That's 2015 pre-pandemic pricing, so I don't expect you'll see anything nearly as low, but the range was surprising.

 

[reaperman1]

Still higher than I expected, but maybe not out of line, given the way all materials and components have been going up.

Either way, I'd follow BKVP's advice and get a few quotes. I had three dealers quote my pair of Ashford 30.2's, and price varied $5k to over $8k for the pair, delivered without setup. That's 2015 pre-pandemic pricing, so I don't expect you'll see anything nearly as low, but the range was surprising.

I called one of dealers I visited on Sat to verify the price again. Both dealers were getting the price off of a msrp sheet supplied by BK im sure. And I see their point, this time of year isnt the best for picking up a bargain. Both dealers have said demand is high due to higher energy costs. I believe that to a point, but wood heating isnt for everyone, its work as we all know.

How far were your units shipped from? Was there a dealer nearby that you bypassed? One avenue I will look into is the Mn state fair starts in about a week and runs 10 days. Like any state fair its huge. Vendors from all aspects of life are selling everything on the planet at "state fair prices". Its a good place to buy larger ticket items. Although I wont be able to attend the fair, I can use it as leverage since most companies will match state fair pricing on any product for fear of losing a sale if they dont.

 

[BKVP]

I called one of dealers I visited on Sat to verify the price again. Both dealers were getting the price off of a msrp sheet supplied by BK im sure. And I see their point, this time of year isnt the best for picking up a bargain. Both dealers have said demand is high due to higher energy costs. I believe that to a point, but wood heating isnt for everyone, its work as we all know.

How far were your units shipped from? Was there a dealer nearby that you bypassed? One avenue I will look into is the Mn state fair starts in about a week and runs 10 days. Like any state fair its huge. Vendors from all aspects of life are selling everything on the planet at "state fair prices". Its a good place to buy larger ticket items. Although I wont be able to attend the fair, I can use it as leverage since most companies will match state fair pricing on any product for fear of losing a sale if they dont.

I can tell you, in visiting with dealers (hundreds of them this year) incentives of tax credit qualified units is almost non existent. There may be some deals on non qualified units to help move those inventories, if there are any.

When consumers call our offices asking where to get the best deal, we tell to shop around. If a dealer has it in stock or on order, grab it. If not, today we are trying to get orders produced in time for dealers to sell and install before 12/31/2022.

Good luck and your perseverance should pay off with a good deal!

 

[Ashful]

How far were your units shipped from? Was there a dealer nearby that you bypassed? One avenue I will look into is the Mn state fair starts in about a week and runs 10 days. Like any state fair its huge. Vendors from all aspects of life are selling everything on the planet at "state fair prices". Its a good place to buy larger ticket items. Although I wont be able to attend the fair, I can use it as leverage since most companies will match state fair pricing on any product for fear of losing a sale if they dont.

The dealer from whom I bought was a couple of young guys just starting up, and I believe I was one of their first (if not the first) experiences with BK. They're in Kintersville, PA... not exactly local to BK in Walla Walla, WA. I believe both stoves had to be ordered in, as I seem to recall they had never even seen an Ashford 30 before mine. In fact, I'm not even sure they were established as a BK dealer, prior to me calling them.

Yes, there were two or three closer dealers that I bypassed. I distinctly remember at least one of those dealers being completely unwilling to budge off list price, despite me giving them the easy job of dropping TWO in my driveway on a single trip, but at least two others gave me lower prices.

It was a different time, demand for wood stoves for the purpose of heating is almost certainly way higher today than it was when oil and gas were at a relative low in 2015. I would absolutely believe that most dealers have as much install work as they can handle, this close to fall in a year with record high energy prices, and thus unwilling to budge on pricing. Supply and demand...

 

[BKVP]

The dealer from whom I bought was a couple of young guys just starting up, and I believe I was one of their first (if not the first) experiences with BK. They're in Kintersville, PA... not exactly local to BK in Walla Walla, WA. I believe both stoves had to be ordered in, as I seem to recall they had never even seen an Ashford 30 before mine. In fact, I'm not even sure they were established as a BK dealer, prior to me calling them.

Yes, there were two or three closer dealers that I bypassed. I distinctly remember at least one of those dealers being completely unwilling to budge off list price, despite me giving them the easy job of dropping TWO in my driveway on a single trip, but at least two others gave me lower prices.

It was a different time, demand for wood stoves for the purpose of heating is almost certainly way higher today than it was when oil and gas were at a relative low in 2015. I would absolutely believe that most dealers have as much install work as they can handle, this close to fall in a year with record high energy prices, and thus unwilling to budge on pricing. Supply and demand...

I was in Fairbanks yesterday and dealer I'd quoting December dates for installs. They are backed.

 

[Ashful]

I was in Fairbanks yesterday and dealer I'd quoting December dates for installs. They are backed.

No surprise. We've seen this before. Glad I bought when I did!

Hey Chris, what's the best route for ordering replacement firebrick? Shipping on two stoves-worth of brick is probably at least a few bucks, but if the dealers need to pay UPS anyway, I'd might as well just have them drop-shipped right to my door?

I don't suppose standard brick will fit, given all the odd sizes I've seen in the diagram(s).

 

[BKVP]

No surprise. We've seen this before. Glad I bought when I did!

Hey Chris, what's the best route for ordering replacement firebrick? Shipping on two stoves-worth of brick is probably at least a few bucks, but if the dealers need to pay UPS anyway, I'd might as well just have them drop-shipped right to my door?

I don't suppose standard brick will fit, given all the odd sizes I've seen in the diagram(s).

Go to a dealer. Ask them to have the bricks shipped with a stove order. If they do not go with the stove, they go UP$. They are very heavy as full set....

 

[Ashful]

Go to a dealer. Ask them to have the bricks shipped with a stove order. If they do not go with the stove, they go UP$. They are very heavy as full set....

Thanks. Are FP & Chimney Pros up in Kintersville still buying from you regularly enough to make that happen, or should I call our buddies in KoP? Kintersville is a longer, but far nicer, drive.

 

[BKVP]

Yes...still very active.

 

[Highbeam]

Thanks. Are FP & Chimney Pros up in Kintersville still buying from you regularly enough to make that happen, or should I call our buddies in KoP? Kintersville is a longer, but far nicer, drive.

I could sure use a bunch of new bricks too. Can’t you just cut standard off the shelf bricks to fit?

 

[BKVP]

I could sure use a bunch of new bricks too. Can’t you just cut standard off the shelf bricks to fit?

Sure...

 

[kennyp2339]

Just filled my oil tank Monday, 205gal @ $4.45 a gal, thank god that will last me 2 years, the stove savings / payoff has sped up exponentially with money saved from fossil heating.
I did buy a spare cat last winter because I foresaw supply chain issues / expense going up, so now I feel like I'm in a good spot and can rest easy on that aspect of being a homeowner.

 

[Ashful]

I could sure use a bunch of new bricks too. Can’t you just cut standard off the shelf bricks to fit?

Likely worth it for a broken brick or two. But I'm looking at complete (or nearly) set replacement for at least one stove, and several more in the second stove.

 

[BKVP]

Installer in Fairbanks filled his heating oil tank a month ago....$8,000.00

 

[kennyp2339]

Installer in Fairbanks filled his heating oil tank a month ago....$8,000.00

welp, pity party just ended for me.

 

[Highbeam]

Likely worth it for a broken brick or two. But I'm looking at complete (or nearly) set replacement for at least one stove, and several more in the second stove.

After 10 years of very long burn seasons, I've really lost a lot of brick to erosion/corrosion or whatever. They're just crumbling and a few have cracked as well. It came on rather suddenly. To be clear, the stove is still safe to burn but I don't want these things failing all the way in the winter. I'm just glad we're not required to use a specific type of brick or OEM replacement. That's a plus for BK. Cutting brick appears very easy with a regular tile saw.

 

[Ashful]

How many cords? My floor bricks started showing the first signs of surface crumbling around 35 cords, with a lot of that being high temperature fast loads with oak. Now I'm likely around 50 cords, and it has gotten somewhat worse, but I don't expect any failure, even if I kept using them another few years. I'm not really sure what a brick failure would mean, I have several cracked on the back wall (rough loading?), but they still stand in place and do their thing. If a floor brick cracked, gravity is in my favor, I'm not sure I'd care.

I guess that's why I've considered, but ultimately never bothered replacing them, the two prior summers. But plowing ashes to the rear, and really any operation involving an ash rake or shovel, is annoying and takes chunks out of those bricks now, as they seem to get soft after the corrosion starts.

 

[Highbeam]

How many cords? My floor bricks started showing the first signs of surface crumbling around 35 cords, with a lot of that being high temperature fast loads with oak. Now I'm likely around 50 cords, and it has gotten somewhat worse, but I don't expect any failure, even if I kept using them another few years. I'm not really sure what a brick failure would mean, I have several cracked on the back wall (rough loading?), but they still stand in place and do their thing. If a floor brick cracked, gravity is in my favor, I'm not sure I'd care.

I guess that's why I've considered, but ultimately never bothered replacing them, the two prior summers. But plowing ashes to the rear, and really any operation involving an ash rake or shovel, is annoying and takes chunks out of those bricks now, as they seem to get soft after the corrosion starts.

How many cords or how many hours? So many different factors for wear like this. I don't think it's a physical abuse issue because I don't think either of us are wood chuckers!

I am burning on two stoves but I feel confident that this stove sees about 4 cords per year over a 9 month burn season. Mostly 24 hour cycles and all softwoods burning low and slow unless we're in a cold snap.

Floor bricks started getting especially bad for me in the last 2-3 years so about 35 cords like you. I thought it was clinkers sticking to the bricks but even with a constant thick ash bed the corrosion and softening has only accelerated. This year is when the cracks appeared right at the ash line all around. Didn't even see most of them until I cleaned out all of the ash after my end of year sweep. As I was vacuuming out the last of the ash I was sucking off spalls of crumbly brick to expose cracks.

On the princess, the side bricks are angled with a void behind them that means they are not supported in the middle so easy to crack with regular loading. Mine held up at least as well as the rear vertical bricks that are supported. The princess ultra is supposed to have two layers of bricks on the floor. The bottom layer should be pristine and I would like to leave it alone.

Brick failure to me is when the cracked bricks actually fall out of place so they stop providing protection to the metal behind them. Some of the cracked ones might just crumble away and I would then have an emergency replacement which is why I'm looking to replace them during the off season. I also would like a more durable brick and since BK allows any brick to be used, the more dense local bricks are preferable to me.