Hello there! If a wood stove insert is not sealed from air leaks, would you expect to see any problems with performance? If so, what? I have air leaks in my wood stove insert and my chimney sweeper told me that even if I were to get them fixed, it would not make much of a difference. Is that true? Thank you for any help.
Wood Stove Insert with Air Leaks
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What make and model insert is this?
In a modern stove, air leaks can definitely cause issues. Air should only enter the firebox where intended and designed. The kind of problem depends on where the air leak is located. For example, a door gasket air leak could cause erratic burning, sooting of the glass, or lack of control.
In a modern stove, air leaks can definitely cause issues. Air should only enter the firebox where intended and designed. The kind of problem depends on where the air leak is located. For example, a door gasket air leak could cause erratic burning, sooting of the glass, or lack of control.
My Regency Hampton® HI2450 Medium Wood Insert was installed October 2021 so I think it would be considered a modern stove.
If you care to hear the long story:
Upon first bringing our new wood stove insert into the house (back in October 2021), the installers broke the glass. After that, they installed the replacement glass incorrectly (it's a bit more involved because we have a decorative grill) and it took all of last burn season for ME to figure out the issue. Being new to wood stoves, I was doing a lot of research and reading, smoke tests and dollar bill tests, YouTube videos and hearth.com threads. After working with my installers for months I finally figured the source of the air leaks was the glass gasket and was able to send pictures to Regency of the gaps between the glass and the glass gasket where I was able to easily drop in popsicle sticks and slide them all around. I even brought out a local chimney sweep for a second opinion and he was the one who told me that even if I were to seal the air leaks, then I still wouldn't really notice any difference in the stove's performance.
Eventually after almost 9 months, three instances of the glass breaking, multiple broken handles, and never fixing the air leaks, the Regency rep finally came out and decided to replace the whole door rather than the glass. Unfortunately, now the door itself has significant air leaks. The door provides no resistance at all to a dollar bill along the bottom and little resistance in a few other areas. I've also done smoke tests and seen lots of smoke being sucked in. Additionally, we had one hot fire where it looked like the air coming in from the leak in the gasket was itself igniting.
It has been over a year and I still have air leaks. I am wondering if it is true that I would not notice any difference in performance even if these leaks were fixed. I have been discouraged by some parts of the performance but wondering if my expectations are too high. What kind of performance issues would be expected with air leaks in a wood stove?
If you care to hear the long story:
Upon first bringing our new wood stove insert into the house (back in October 2021), the installers broke the glass. After that, they installed the replacement glass incorrectly (it's a bit more involved because we have a decorative grill) and it took all of last burn season for ME to figure out the issue. Being new to wood stoves, I was doing a lot of research and reading, smoke tests and dollar bill tests, YouTube videos and hearth.com threads. After working with my installers for months I finally figured the source of the air leaks was the glass gasket and was able to send pictures to Regency of the gaps between the glass and the glass gasket where I was able to easily drop in popsicle sticks and slide them all around. I even brought out a local chimney sweep for a second opinion and he was the one who told me that even if I were to seal the air leaks, then I still wouldn't really notice any difference in the stove's performance.
Eventually after almost 9 months, three instances of the glass breaking, multiple broken handles, and never fixing the air leaks, the Regency rep finally came out and decided to replace the whole door rather than the glass. Unfortunately, now the door itself has significant air leaks. The door provides no resistance at all to a dollar bill along the bottom and little resistance in a few other areas. I've also done smoke tests and seen lots of smoke being sucked in. Additionally, we had one hot fire where it looked like the air coming in from the leak in the gasket was itself igniting.
It has been over a year and I still have air leaks. I am wondering if it is true that I would not notice any difference in performance even if these leaks were fixed. I have been discouraged by some parts of the performance but wondering if my expectations are too high. What kind of performance issues would be expected with air leaks in a wood stove?
I forgot to mention that the Regency rep said that the door was warped when he replaced it. Could that have been from overfiring? Another thing that multiple people (including people from Regency) have told me is that it is impossible for my unit to sustain any sort of damage from overfiring. But my owner's manual says that "Over firing can cause extensive damage to your stove including warping and premature steel corrosion." It seems to me that with all the extra air coming in from the air leaks, overfiring would be a strong possibility. I am now worried that my unit is damaged from over firing due to the improper installation.
It honestly sounds like you are being fed a line of chit from all of the people involved. Yes you will absolutely notice a difference if the glass is that loose. Yes it will over fire. Yes it will warp the door. Yes it will crack the stove
Thank you for the feedback! I have been often feeling like I'm the crazy one.
It would also seem to me that the heat output might be affected from these air leaks. Like my wood stove would act more like an open fireplace when so much air is circulating through and would lose more heat through the chimney. I have been told that I have very strong draft, which I believe is true because I never seem to have trouble lighting a fire even when the outside temp and inside temp are about the same. Is this also a possibility with air leaks? Again, I have been told that the only possible reason that I am not getting the heat output I would expect is that I'm not having big enough fires with dry enough wood. But when I point my laser thermometer at the glass, I often get readings over 800 degrees... My wood is dry. We have seasoned it ourselves and my fires always light easily on the first try. No moisture off the ends, moisture meter reads well, etc.
We got this model of stove because our friends who live in a 100-year-old house in Michigan use it to heat their house almost exclusively. I have difficulty, even with the driest wood and hottest fires, getting even our main room warm, even on days where the outdoor temps are in the 40s, 50s, even 60s. I have not felt heated out of the room (except when we've had a dozen or more people crammed in our living room with the doors closed and fire going), and our living room has doors to the stairs and French doors to the dining room so we are able to completely isolate it from the rest of the house.
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It's a good stove and air leaks at the glass or door will definitely make it burn differently with the potential to overfire if enough air is coming in. Unfortunately, a good stove does not help with issues of incompetence. Breaking the glass once on an install is really rare, but two more times? This issue needs to be brought up with the owner of the store and if that does not bring about a different, competent crew, then with the Regency regional rep.
Regarding heating, Is this an external chimney fireplace? If so, was a block-off plate installed in the damper area? Note that readings off the glass don't mean much. They need to be taken off the stove top, which is not exposed on this insert so read it on the door above the stove glass.
Regarding heating, Is this an external chimney fireplace? If so, was a block-off plate installed in the damper area? Note that readings off the glass don't mean much. They need to be taken off the stove top, which is not exposed on this insert so read it on the door above the stove glass.
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Ctwoodtick
Minister of Fire
Pointing the thermometer at the glass will not be helpful. You would be interim the stove top temp, if you can get at it with your insert.
We’re it me, I’d talk with regency about getting a new stove on their dime. Certainly sounds like you have a paper trail detailing the history of your issues. I’d start that process now.
We’re it me, I’d talk with regency about getting a new stove on their dime. Certainly sounds like you have a paper trail detailing the history of your issues. I’d start that process now.
Good point. If the door was already warped chances are the stove is weakened to some extent from overfiring.
Not sure the exact height. Our house is two stories tall. Here is a picture where you can see the chimney under the red leaves, above the point of the dormer.
Thank you for your input. I was considering this route, but wasn't sure if it was the right move and how to go about it. But hearing someone say that that is what I should push for helps give me direction moving forward.
Yup that was a concern of mine (that the stove might be somehow damaged), but I wasn't sure if I was being overly dramatic since whenever I brought up that fear, then the response to me seemed to be one of just immediate dismissal - like "no way there would be damage" so I questioned myself.
Our chimney is in the middle of the house, not on an external wall, so I think it would be considered an internal chimney fireplace, correct?
Ctwoodtick
Minister of Fire
Feel free to update this thread as you continue to talk with the different folks involved. They will likely continue being dismissive but you paid for a nice new stove and that’s not what you ended up with.
I don't think my installers have any other crew. The owner himself came out multiple times as well as sending some of their other mechanics (or whatever the proper name is haha). I have been in touch with the Regency rep. When he first came at the end of June, he gave me his card and told me to call him directly if there were any issues with it. He told me to just wait and test it out when the weather cooled off and make a fire and see how it worked (it was pushing 90 degrees outside at the time). Unfortunately, neither he nor I thought of doing a dollar bill test which could have been easily done right there on the cold stove when he was still present. Honestly, I expected that the Regency rep fixed it. Previously, the main problem had been the glass gasket sealing. So after he replaced the door, I looked at the glass and it looked good, the place that previously had a large gap was sealed. I didn't think that it would mess up the door so significantly.
So this September I had my first fire, did a smoke test, saw the smoke getting sucked in like crazy still. Did my dollar bill test. Had a few fires to study it and educate myself on the issues. I then contacted the Regency rep on September 22 and have not heard back anything at all about when he might be able to come out or what he thinks the problem could be. I have followed up with him several times. So it is a slow process. But I feel more convinced now that what I ought to do is more directly advocate for a new stove anyway. We paid way too much for this stove to not have it work properly for over a year.
So this September I had my first fire, did a smoke test, saw the smoke getting sucked in like crazy still. Did my dollar bill test. Had a few fires to study it and educate myself on the issues. I then contacted the Regency rep on September 22 and have not heard back anything at all about when he might be able to come out or what he thinks the problem could be. I have followed up with him several times. So it is a slow process. But I feel more convinced now that what I ought to do is more directly advocate for a new stove anyway. We paid way too much for this stove to not have it work properly for over a year.
Correct. The flue system looks like it would be around 22' tall.
I'm sorry you have had such a bad initial experience. It's a good stove and nice looking. Hope you make progress soon.
As far as the glass breaking multiple times, the glass was being installed on top of
Is that good news or bad news?
Good. The height shouldn't be an issue.As far as the glass breaking multiple times, the glass was being installed on top of
Is that good news or bad news?
Oops - I accidentally posted a partial reply.
As far as the glass breaking, it was being (incorrectly obviously) installed over the screws that were holding on the decorative grill. So they would replace the glass and it would leave an open air gap. Then I would complain about the air leak and they would try to tighten the glass and it would break. Unfortunately this picture was taken while the glass was broken and waiting to be replaced, but it was finally my dad who said, "You know, the reason your glass keeps breaking is because it is in contact with these screws and the pressure from the screws is too much for the glass." So I'm guessing this is kind of a specialty issue.
As far as the glass breaking, it was being (incorrectly obviously) installed over the screws that were holding on the decorative grill. So they would replace the glass and it would leave an open air gap. Then I would complain about the air leak and they would try to tighten the glass and it would break. Unfortunately this picture was taken while the glass was broken and waiting to be replaced, but it was finally my dad who said, "You know, the reason your glass keeps breaking is because it is in contact with these screws and the pressure from the screws is too much for the glass." So I'm guessing this is kind of a specialty issue.
It looks like the glass should be installed under that bar and butting up against the screw shank, not over the screw heads.
Yeah tricky, right? On our new door (and I believe how it is supposed to be), the glass is still installed over those screws. I think the problem was that the gasket was previously mistakenly running in the wrong place, so that the screws couldn't screw down tightly enough because the gasket was running under them, so then they stuck out more and then they hit the glass. Now the glass gasket runs more to the side of the screws (instead of behind them) which allows the screws to screw down enough to no longer make contact with the glass. Here is a picture of the new door sealed. You can imagine why it took so long to figure all this out!
Would these pictures be examples of the "premature steel corrosion" that my owner's manual says can happen due to over firing? My stove is 1 year old, burned from probably October-May, but we definitely didn't burn as much as we would have because we were flying through wood since the fire was so out-of-control with the air leaks. So on nice sunny January days for instance I would just skip the fires. My owner's manual also says that over firing voids the warranty, but in this instance I don't see how I should be the one held responsible. I am the only one this entire time who has mentioned the possibility of over firing and everyone else has said that's not going to be a problem, it won't damage anything. And I've been told to just build bigger, hotter fires. I'm just trying to get ready to make a strong case for a new stove and be ready to advocate for myself because up to this point pretty much the only progress that has been made has been at my initiative, my problem-solving, and my follow-through. So I am a bit nervous about the pushback I will receive and just trying to make my case the best I can.
This goes back to a question I asked earlier. Part of why I was told to build bigger fires, leave the damper all the way open, max out the fire is because that is what I was told was the only way to get the heat I was expecting. Me looking into these problems was in part precipitated by the lack of heat we were getting. Like we could not imagine how this stove could ever put out enough heat to be the sole source of heat for our house, let alone actually make the room it is in warm and toasty. Is this a completely separate issue than the air leaks? Or is it possible that the air leaks would impact the heating ability of our stove?
Put another way, should I expect the same heat output and heating efficiency with air leaks as without? Do the air leaks make no impact on the ability of my stove to produce heat?
Put another way, should I expect the same heat output and heating efficiency with air leaks as without? Do the air leaks make no impact on the ability of my stove to produce heat?
You will get more heat in the home without the air leaked for sure. You also don't get max heat in the home with the air all the way open. Sadly the people giving you advice don't seem to have a clue what they are talking about
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