17-VL crooked air tubes

[Waxhaw Brad]

The front air tube of my Englander 17-VL is sloped. I've received "permission" from them to fix it without voiding the warranty, but I need to know if the left side should be lowered or if the right side should be raised. See Photo. Should the front and rear air tubes be at the same height, or should the front tube be higher?

Thanks.

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

It looks like the manifold(terminology) on the right is mismanfactured or the one on the left is. I'd take it back....I don't think you can fix that without cutting and rewelding, unless I'm not seeing something in the pic. You can see how the manifold on the right slopes towards the front fire brick.

 

[Waxhaw Brad]

It looks like the manifold(terminology) on the right is mismanfactured or the one on the left is. I'd take it back....I don't think you can fix that without cutting and rewelding, unless I'm not seeing something in the pic. You can see how the manifold on the right slopes towards the front fire brick.

You are correct, one of the pieces of C-channel that holds the tube is welded crooked. I just need to decide which one is wrong to know which one to fix. It's too hard to crate and move this thing to return it, so I will fix it in place. I have an easy plan of attack, I just need to know which side needs fixing. Anyone have a heads-on photo showing the tubes? An engineering drawing would also show which one was wrong.

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

I think you will have alot more work fixing than you think. The c-channel is welded top and bottom. That would mean possibly taking the top plate off the stove to get it out properly and in properly. I would opt for a new one....

Unless you got it real cheap in that case I'd leave it. Just seems to be a major PIA to grind out the top welds.

 

[Waxhaw Brad]

I think you will have alot more work fixing than you think. The c-channel is welded top and bottom. That would mean possibly taking the top plate off the stove to get it out properly and in properly. I would opt for a new one....

Unless you got it real cheap in that case I'd leave it. Just seems to be a major PIA to grind out the top welds.

I'm not going to remove the C-channel, I'm going to grind the incorrect hole with a die-grinder to adjust the tube, then close the gap with a 1/8th piece of steel located by the attachment screw. There's room for this in the length of the tube, I checked. I just need to decide which end is wrong.

 

[PLAYS WITH FIRE]

ahhhhhh, very smart grasshopper....I'd ask for some discount or something as this is not normal!

 

[Highbeam]

Adjust the right side. Your tubes support the baffle and you want the baffle to slope up towards the front so that smoke will follow the slope up and out. I agree that you should relocate the holes and not the whole manifold.

So where the manifold meets the rear of the stove, did they just fill the gap with weld? Look for leaks back there too.

 

[Waxhaw Brad]

Adjust the right side. Your tubes support the baffle and you want the baffle to slope up towards the front so that smoke will follow the slope up and out. I agree that you should relocate the holes and not the whole manifold.

So where the manifold meets the rear of the stove, did they just fill the gap with weld? Look for leaks back there too.

10-4, thank you, and I will check for a gap at the back of the C-channel where it meets the rear plenum. So you are saying that the front tube is to be higher than the rear tube, and the smoke therefore goes forward, even though the outlet is at the rear? Just checking to be sure I'm following you.

 

[begreen]

calling stoveguy2esw to the front desk. Bad manifold issue.

From what I see the left manifold is level, it follows the firebrick line. The right manifold is quite different. It is sloping downhill toward the front of the stove and almost touching the firebrick in the front. Start a conversation with Mike (stoveguy2esw) if he doesn't catch this thread. Or contact him at: [email protected]

 

[BrotherBart]

OK. If you are going to do this, which I wouldn't, here is a thread with a bunch of pics of the manifold and baffle in a new 17-VL.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/report-on-my-new-50-tvl17-stove-lots-of-pictures.57350/

 

[Waxhaw Brad]

Thanks for the link above, but unfortunately the photos aren't being displayed on my work computer, I'll have to check it out at home. In the meantime, here are pictures of the manifold on each side. On the right side the tubes are square to the back firebrick, while on the left the front tube is significantly higher.

 

[begreen]

I will defer to Englander say here, but based on the other 17VL's picture it looks like there should be a slight downward slope of the manifolds on both sides toward the front of the stove. If so, it appears that the left side is incorrectly welded in place. Keep us posted.

 

[Waxhaw Brad]

I will defer to Englander say here, but based on the other 17VL's picture it looks like there should be a slight downward slope of the manifolds on both sides toward the front of the stove. If so, it appears that the left side is incorrectly welded in place. Keep us posted.

Hmmm, interesting, begreen is suggesting that it should slope up towards the rear, and highbeam suggests that it should slope up towards the front? I've send an email to Mike, hopefully he will respond.

Thanks for the replies everybody, this is a cool forum.

 

[begreen]

I caught that. Highbeam, was this a typo? I would expect a level baffle or a slight upward slope toward the back of stove to create a smooth uphill smoke path.

 

[Highbeam]

The smoke should rise from the fire along the firebox roof toward the front, yes the door, and then spill up over the front edge of the baffle and then make its way toward the throat of the flue. An S- curve meant to maximize time in the firebox for combustion and heat exchange.

The left side is most proper. Left when you're looking at the stove loading wood.

Nice watchband. Is that velcro?

 

[Highbeam]

I would expect a level baffle or a slight upward slope toward the back of stove to create a smooth uphill smoke path.

Note that anything heading back on the underside of the baffle will not have an exit path. At the back of the baffle on the bottom, there is no exit. Exhaust must travel forward towards the glass after leaving the fire. Same as your T6.

 

[begreen]

Most stoves I can recall including the T6 appear to have a level baffle. Though some are angled sharply upward underneath and level on the top. I'll check the T6 later.

 

[Highbeam]

Most stoves I can recall including the T6 appear to have a level baffle. Though some are angled sharply upward underneath and level on the top. I'll check the T6 later.

I checked my NC30 and the roof of the firebox does indeed slope upwards so that as smoke comes off of the fire it must first flow towards the glass before making the corner near the firebox loading door and heading back to the flue. I can't help but think that we are misunderstanding each other. All modern stoves that I've seen are designed to force the smoke towards the door glass before sending them back to the flue outlet. Only the old smoke dragons were designed to allow the smoke a direct shot from coals to flue.

 

[begreen]

We don't disagree. You are correct, some stoves have a rise on the underside of the baffle toward the front. But, some do not. Napoleon and PE I think are level for example. This was a hard shot to take, but I checked the T6 and it is dead flat level.

 

[Waxhaw Brad]

The 17 has TWO upper baffles. The lower baffle touches the rear of the fire box and stops a few inches short of the front, right at the front air tube. The second baffle engages a slot across the front of the unit and slopes slightly downward to the rear and stops a few inches short of the rear, near the center of the outlet. In this picture (from 48rob's thread, the back of the unit is on the left and the door is towards the right) you can see the upper refractory baffle rear edge in the center of the hole. The lower baffle is the lighter color section visible in the left half of the opening.

For smoke to leave the unit it would seem that the designer created the S-curve path as highbeam described. I'm "inclined" to believe that the lower baffle should be tilted forward, and that it's the right side manifold that should be raised. I'll wait to make any cuts until I hear from Englander, or Mike, or some more of you.

 

[stoveguy2esw]

calling stoveguy2esw to the front desk. Bad manifold issue.

From what I see the left manifold is level, it follows the firebrick line. The right manifold is quite different. It is sloping downhill toward the front of the stove and almost touching the firebrick in the front. Start a conversation with Mike (stoveguy2esw) if he doesn't catch this thread. Or contact him at: [email protected]

working on it, just got e mail from the Op as i was heading out the door, sent reply. i'll get it taken care of

 

[ddahlgren]

There is no way I would make any of this my problem. I would not fix it or take the time to crate it. It is their QC problem not yours so why make it yours? The fact that it has never been fired makes it 100% their problem as all you have done is take a new defective stove out of a crate. If you bought it as a used as is where is stove then your problem. Also having a problem while in service might be part your actions so some participation on your part is not unreasonable. If I used a credit card I would start with calling them and letting them know you have a defective product..If a check call the bank and if cash get your head examined along with retaking the course 'How to cover my financial butt 101'.

 

[Waxhaw Brad]

I appreciate your position on this matter and your advice. I would normally agree with your position and would be an advocate for consumer rights. However, there are reasons that I am fixing this myself.
1) I bought the unit new in December 2010 and didn't notice the problem until now, that's my fault.
2) I like the unit otherwise and the repair will be fairly simple.
3) I don't like the idea of shipping this unit back and waiting on a replacement. I am under a slight schedule crunch as I would like to have this new room warm for Thanksgiving. That's a new schedule that my wife and I agreed upon this weekend, so I've got to get the double-wall chimney connector on order pronto, and get the non-combustible base built this weekend.

I'm sure Mike will help resolve the question surrounding the angle of the baffle that sits on the air tubes and I'll be on my way.

There are many vendors for the DCC chimney connector, some are advertisers on this forum. Can anyone recommend a vendor? I'll need one that has what I need in stock because of my tight schedule.

Thanks all.

 

[begreen]

try www.dynamitebuys.com.

 

[Waxhaw Brad]

I received a phone call this morning from Mike at Englander and he took the time to have a 30-minute discussion with me about my stove. First off, he very generously offered to replace my stove under warranty and cover the shipping! We discussed my plan to make the repair and he was able to confirm that the front tube should be higher than the back tube, and that the baffle, therefore, will be sloping up toward the glass. I plan to make the modification to the right-side manifold this week and will post a picture of the result.

I have to comment on the great customer service given by Englander. I addition to the offer of free replacement of my "new" but three-year-old stove, Mike took time to answer my many questions and even drove to a second facility during his lunch to be sure to give the right answer. This is outstanding support and I highly recommend that anyone considering a hearth product consider the offerings of England's Stove Works.

I now have a question about my stove base but will start another thread.

B.P.