2017/2018 VC owners thread

[RandyBoBandy]

What Diabel said. No ash door assistance. If need be crack the front door until you get some flame. Definitely get a moisture meter. It’s fine to put a few small splits on top of the coals for easy light off but top those with bigger splits.

 

[Kevin Weis]

I understand the ash door assistance issue. I found this by accident the first day of use when the latch wasn't secured all the way and I couldn't get the fire to calm down. Was amazed at the draft it created through the fire with the damper open. Basically making it run like a coal stove. Still learning a lot here with this stove. Lots of physics in play here. Maybe not science as the manual says, but definitely physics. I never thought it was possible for wood to be too dry. But it is apparently now days. Which begs another question. What do you do with wood that's too dry? Moisten it up somehow? Discard it? Kevin

 

[High_flyer]

Hey all,

As of last November I have been the proud owner of a brand new Defiant 2in1 model 1975. It's vented straight up into 8" pipe, a 6' single wall section followed up by about 13' of double wallrigid pipe sections. I have previously owned an older vigilant and have been woodburning for about 30yrs

This is one very finicky stove, and most I can say is that it is starved for air. The unit is very tight, once I get a good fire burning by letting in extra air through either cracking the front doors or cracking open the ashpan tray (just a hair cracked will do the trick)
As soon as I close it up with the primary air fully open the flames will almost immediatly cease and the stove will just die down leaving some of the wood unburnt
If I give it some extra air I can control it better and it will burn down completely, if feels like something isn't right with this stove and I am considering adding another adjustable air intake into the ashpan door to gove it a bit more air, obviously I don't want to leave it unattnded with the risk of the ashpan door falling open or the same thing happening with the doors.

I will still have to move this beast to install the vent kit and hook it up to outside air and I'll take a good look at the primary air intake on the back.



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[Dobish]

Hey all,

As of last November I have been the proud owner of a brand new Defiant 2in1 model 1975. It's vented straight up into 8" pipe, a 6' single wall section followed up by about 13' of double wallrigid pipe sections. I have previously owned an older vigilant and have been woodburning for about 30yrs

This is one very finicky stove, and most I can say is that it is starved for air. The unit is very tight, once I get a good fire burning by letting in extra air through either cracking the front doors or cracking open the ashpan tray (just a hair cracked will do the trick)
As soon as I close it up with the primary air fully open the flames will almost immediatly cease and the stove will just die down leaving some of the wood unburnt
If I give it some extra air I can control it better and it will burn down completely, if feels like something isn't right with this stove and I am considering adding another adjustable air intake into the ashpan door to gove it a bit more air, obviously I don't want to leave it unattnded with the risk of the ashpan door falling open or the same thing happening with the doors.

I will still have to move this beast to install the vent kit and hook it up to outside air and I'll take a good look at the primary air intake on the back.



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If your fire goes out shortly after, it is a wood issue, not a draft issue most likely.

I recently posed the question of what is the difference between cracking the door and cracking the ash pan door. The answer is, the stove is not designed for cracking the ash pan door and you will not only void your warranty, but will damage your stove if you do this.

 

[Dobish]

I understand the ash door assistance issue. I found this by accident the first day of use when the latch wasn't secured all the way and I couldn't get the fire to calm down. Was amazed at the draft it created through the fire with the damper open. Basically making it run like a coal stove. Still learning a lot here with this stove. Lots of physics in play here. Maybe not science as the manual says, but definitely physics. I never thought it was possible for wood to be too dry. But it is apparently now days. Which begs another question. What do you do with wood that's too dry? Moisten it up somehow? Discard it? Kevin

Mix super duper dry wood with other wood that is not so dry. Manual says it can be, but people here on hearth say it can't be

 

[High_flyer]

I've been burning pretty dry wood, wood that's seasoned for 3+ years in my wood shed, as I read up on it and that this stove doesn't take green wood very well.
I still feel there is something not right with the amount of air it lets into the stove. My Vigilant (although a European model) was fool proof and would be very controllable with the primary air intake, on this stove i basically see no difference in any primary air setting


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[Dobish]

I've been burning pretty dry wood, wood that's seasoned for 3+ years in my wood shed, as I read up on it and that this stove doesn't take green wood very well.
I still feel there is something not right with the amount of air it lets into the stove. My Vigilant (although a European model) was fool proof and would be very controllable with the primary air intake, on this stove i basically see no difference in any primary air setting


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is it controllable after the cat has been engaged?

 

[High_flyer]

Without letting in extra air it will die out, whether on cat or upflow, since we have to get the fire established quite a bit better to get the cat going, it will take a little longer, but will die down anyway


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[Dobish]

is your air valve control connected? it might have not been installed correctly.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Hey all,

As of last November I have been the proud owner of a brand new Defiant 2in1 model 1975. It's vented straight up into 8" pipe, a 6' single wall section followed up by about 13' of double wallrigid pipe sections. I have previously owned an older vigilant and have been woodburning for about 30yrs

This is one very finicky stove, and most I can say is that it is starved for air. The unit is very tight, once I get a good fire burning by letting in extra air through either cracking the front doors or cracking open the ashpan tray (just a hair cracked will do the trick)
As soon as I close it up with the primary air fully open the flames will almost immediatly cease and the stove will just die down leaving some of the wood unburnt
If I give it some extra air I can control it better and it will burn down completely, if feels like something isn't right with this stove and I am considering adding another adjustable air intake into the ashpan door to gove it a bit more air, obviously I don't want to leave it unattnded with the risk of the ashpan door falling open or the same thing happening with the doors.

I will still have to move this beast to install the vent kit and hook it up to outside air and I'll take a good look at the primary air intake on the back.



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These newer epa stoves are a different beast than your old stove. You are singing the same song a lot guys do when they upgrade from their old stove. Can we assume your chimney and cap are clean and not plugged up?

 

[High_flyer]

I have some experience with the newer EPA stoves, but mostly the 'cheapo' US Stove/Englander ones with the secondary air tubes. I'm not really that opposed to them.

The Defiant is in a house that I am redoing, so the chimney and stove pipe is all brand new, and after a little over 2 months burning only a small dusting on the inner walls of them.


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[Kevin Weis]

Getting back to the Encore back puffing. Still doing this with what I think is right okay draft. It's always when the fire is at a certain level of solid wood left to burn and is off gassing. The fire seems to start smoldering erupts into flames underneath the griddle with smoke puffing out around the griddle, nowhere else. Thought the least resistance to this would be out through the combuster, no? When I add bigger pieces or pieces with a higher MC it does not happen. Does size really matter that much or is it MC. The manual alludes too dry wood could cause this no matter the draft. Boy that would make this a very finicky stove too operate. I haven't heard anyone really say this but it appears the engineering on this is that no matter the draft, for the catalyst to work you can't have too little or too much draft going back through it, yes, no? Just trying to get it figured out. Other than this issue the stove I think is running well. Right now I have only at best 4" pieces mostly about 3 to 3 1/2 thick. I had a small Waterford Leprechaun stove before so that's the only wood that's seasoned I can use right now. Next year will be different. Got that CSS already. Any thoughts or comments appreciated. Will be changing the one 90 stove pipe to two 45's and eliminating near a foot of f horizontal so that should help. Kevin

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Getting back to the Encore back puffing. Still doing this with what I think is right okay draft. It's always when the fire is at a certain level of solid wood left to burn and is off gassing. The fire seems to start smoldering erupts into flames underneath the griddle with smoke puffing out around the griddle, nowhere else. Thought the least resistance to this would be out through the combuster, no? When I add bigger pieces or pieces with a higher MC it does not happen. Does size really matter that much or is it MC. The manual alludes too dry wood could cause this no matter the draft. Boy that would make this a very finicky stove too operate. I haven't heard anyone really say this but it appears the engineering on this is that no matter the draft, for the catalyst to work you can't have too little or too much draft going back through it, yes, no? Just trying to get it figured out. Other than this issue the stove I think is running well. Right now I have only at best 4" pieces mostly about 3 to 3 1/2 thick. I had a small Waterford Leprechaun stove before so that's the only wood that's seasoned I can use right now. Next year will be different. Got that CSS already. Any thoughts or comments appreciated. Will be changing the one 90 stove pipe to two 45's and eliminating near a foot of f horizontal so that should help. Kevin

So this is the way i look at it. Back puffing is opperator error. Back puffing is a buildup of gasses in the fire box. With the introduction of enough oxygen to set off a seconday burn in the fire box every so often. This means that you have the air set to low for the ammount of wood that is gassing off. Moving the air control slightly up will allow more air in and will allow the secondary burn the happen in the box burning off the gas so it dosent build up.. or turning the air down so that less air is introduced and it dosent have enough air to take off every so often. What your describing is you found a sweet spot for the creation of back puffing. When i run my stove and the cat is engaged with a load of wood in it, I run it with the air fully open, 3/4 open, 1/2 way open, but never any lower than 1/2. So i have the secondary flames going. If i turn it down to say 1/3rd. Gasses will build and it may back puff. If you want to burn slower than turn your air past 1/3 so less air goes in. Hope this helps

 

[Woodsplitter67]

this is what you looking for to keep your stove from back puffing

 

[Kevin Weis]

Woodsplitter67, exactly. I have put wood on greater than 4". This has resolved the problem >90%. Hard to believe wood size makes that difference. So size matters. I'm still going to replace the 90 in the stove pipe with two 45's so this combined with what's been said above should be the total cure. Thanks all. Kevin

 

[Cast Iron]

Maybe now I'll get it right.....here's the question, and your reviews on the Vermont Castings Flexburn 2in1.

The wife wants/needs the following for a new stove which is why the VC Flexburn looks like the only choice :
Top loading
Pretty
Enamel (not brown, not red, not white )
Catalyst ( friends have Woodstocks )
I said "pretty" ?
Thermostatic air control.

Me ? Reading here about the problems with Vermont Castings is a problem for me. Have they changed in quality ? Service ?
Any using the Flexburns 2in1 for a season of heat or more have concerns ? Reliable ? Warranty issues ?

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Maybe now I'll get it right.....here's the question, and your reviews on the Vermont Castings Flexburn 2in1.

The wife wants/needs the following for a new stove which is why the VC Flexburn looks like the only choice :
Top loading
Pretty
Enamel (not brown, not red, not white )
Catalyst ( friends have Woodstocks )
I said "pretty" ?
Thermostatic air control.

Me ? Reading here about the problems with Vermont Castings is a problem for me. Have they changed in quality ? Service ?
Any using the Flexburns 2in1 for a season of heat or more have concerns ? Reliable ? Warranty issues ?

If you can get her to give up the top loader the blaze king Ashford 30 gets a lot more love around here and has top notch manufacturer support as well. It’s hard to beat the looks of a VC though. I think there are a few flexburners on here hopefully the chim in for you.
@Dobish, @defiant3,

 

[Diabel]

Your wife is correct regarding the looks. The stove has a long learning curve, once the sweet spot discovered it can perform well and be a great heater.
Warranty.......I never even attempted to contact the manufacturer regarding any issues (I got all answers here).

I am in a process of installing a second stove (different house) and sadly it will not be VC.

 

[Dobish]

Maybe now I'll get it right.....here's the question, and your reviews on the Vermont Castings Flexburn 2in1.

The wife wants/needs the following for a new stove which is why the VC Flexburn looks like the only choice :
Top loading
Pretty
Enamel (not brown, not red, not white )
Catalyst ( friends have Woodstocks )
I said "pretty" ?
Thermostatic air control.

Me ? Reading here about the problems with Vermont Castings is a problem for me. Have they changed in quality ? Service ?
Any using the Flexburns 2in1 for a season of heat or more have concerns ? Reliable ? Warranty issues ?

I'm going on 3 years with my 2n1 encore. I feel like with the exception of the cat breaking, the issues have been wood related. I have contacted vc direct and they were very helpful. They do like you to do everything though your local distributor, so if you don't have one, that might be a problem. Start getting your wood dry now, the 2n1 is sensitive. You can always burn it hotter, and clean more often.

A lot of people are against them, i love mine.

 

[Cast Iron]

If you can get her to give up the top loader the blaze king Ashford 30 gets a lot more love around here and has top notch manufacturer support as well. It’s hard to beat the looks of a VC though. I think there are a few flexburners on here hopefully the chim in for you.
@Dobish, @defiant3,

Yup, I wanted the Ashford...but she said no to the looks, to the front load, to the enamel colors.. I must obey so far.
And why is BK the only maker who posts here ? Impressive. No Woodstock, Jotul, PE.

 

[Dobish]

Yup, I wanted the Ashford...but she said no to the looks, to the front load, to the enamel colors.. I must obey so far.
And why is BK the only maker who posts here ? Impressive. No Woodstock, Jotul, PE.

Top load is my favorite. I only open the doors to clean and for a cold start

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I have an encore 2in1 and could not be happier. Im heating solely with wood. Dont get me wrong i turn on the heat now and then but wood is the way i go. The only issue was the 2 months into my first year with the stove i dropped the cat.. broke it.. and VC still replaced it.. I run my stove alot, I dont take it easy on it neather and it proforms great. I have it serviced twice a year, stove pipe. Clean the cat once per week, and runs like a champ. Its not that hard to run and i have 2 thermometers on it. One on the griddle and one on the stove pipe.. my pipe is an 8in.. I read alot from the nay sayers and just laugh on how difficult they think it is to run and its really not.. my 10yr old son and my wife run it with no issues.. it hasn't over fired, the cat kicks right off, my stove pipe dosent have this outrageous ammount of creosote, its been maintenance free except for the sweep. After an overnight burn the glass is a little dirty,but in the morning I kick it up to 600 and the glass is crystal clear.. oh yeah did I mention that I get burn times of 10 to 12 hours regularly and sometimes longer depending on what kind of wood I put into it. Would i buy this stove again.. absolutely

 

[Kevin Weis]

Woodsplitter67, I'm greatly encouraged. One thing to note the 2016 owners manual makes no mention of an adjustment or an "allowed" adjustment to the primary air damper. The 2017 manual does. I noticed on mine when I was setting it up that the damper was closed when the handle was only half way in the closed position. So I adjusted it to close at the full back position (which I assume is what it should be). There must have been some acknowledgment at VC that this was a problem. Also noticed when I did this that the allen screw that was supposed to be tight on the cable was not even hand tight. Maybe quality control guys were on vacation in February 17' when this was tagged as being built??? So far what I've learned is you should have above average draft (more than so so), wood larger than 4" diameter, and wood that has a moister content between 14% and 20%. You take any one of these out of the equation, then problems may/will surface (mainly puff back conditions). I can adhere to these rules though. I haven't reached a 12 hour burn time yet but I've gotten 8 hours whereby I only need a few 2" dry pieces added for 15 minutes to being it back up to where I can add the big stuff. This may beg another question, how big is too big? If it fits though the top , its good to go? Kevin

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Top load is my favorite. I only open the doors to clean and for a cold start

Same here. Top load is very convenient.

 

[Cast Iron]

So far you have saved me from death...or worse since I was not comfortable with Vermont Castings' rep.
Dealers out of area have been satisfied with service on warranty claims...I called them before the big home war started over which stove.
Maybe one of the more senior people around here can answer why only the BK guy posts on heartthnet out of all the makers. You get a lot of info from insiders. It just plain good marketing.