2022-2023 BK everything thread

[NHWS]

BK Princess question: other than cost, is there any overall disadvantage to the rear heat shield on the BK Princess PE32?

Is the rear heat shield included with the fan kit? I've been told different things by different BK dealers / installers.

 

[BKVP]

BK Princess question: other than cost, is there any overall disadvantage to the rear heat shield on the BK Princess PE32?

Is the rear heat shield included with the fan kit? I've been told different things by different BK dealers / installers.

The fans are the rear heat shield.

BKVP

 

[NHWS]

The fans are the rear heat shield.

BKVP

Thx. Follow-up question: other than the mobile home installation requirement and/or the fan's heat movement, is there any advantage to the rear heat shield? The spec'ed clearances from the back of the stove to a combustible surface don't appear to change.

 

[stoveliker]

I am back after having been forced to take a break from hearth.com and my BK friends.

This past weekend I was in the Berkshires. The place we were in had a stove, an older Kent Tile Fire. This one does not have secondary air, but did have an air wash, and a baffle with the opening at the front. So the baffle forced the gases to the front where they could go up and to the back where the flue was, just like the tube stoves and our BKs.

Dry wood was a bit of an issue (can't bring wood across state lines, or even out of my NY county..), but I got it going.

What I liked about the stove was that it had a bypass; open the bypass in the baffle in the back and then open the door so that there is no smoke roll out. The bypass was 5" round (not 6", for some reason even if the flue was 6", and, nicely, double wall stove pipe), and had a nickel sized hole in it.

The *nice* feature was that one could NOT open the door unless one opened the bypass first: the bypass was a plate connected to a rod that you pulled out. But the rod was bent a bit, and if one pushed the rod in to close the bypass, the rod pushed down a little piece of brass that prevented one from opening the door. So no "oops, I opened the door without opening the bypass" moments.

Neat, simple solution for a (dumb) problem.

Of course additional mechanics makes for additional failure points, but this was so simple that I don't see how it would fail. Unfortunately, harder (more complex) to implement with the bypass mechanism we have in the BKs.

 

[Jcapo29]

Hey all, finally got my condor installed. What's the target flu temp with the cat in active for a long burn? Been seeing around 4 to 500. Got er up to 700 for about a half hour to clear out any creosote build up and then backed it down. Just wondering what the consensus is from the experts. Thanks everyone.

 

[stoveliker]

I run about 200-300 when running low (as in 20 hrs or more) and 450-600 when running open at 8-10 hr cycles.

 

[Ashful]

Hey all, finally got my condor installed. What's the target flu temp with the cat in active for a long burn? Been seeing around 4 to 500. Got er up to 700 for about a half hour to clear out any creosote build up and then backed it down. Just wondering what the consensus is from the experts. Thanks everyone.

You didn't specify external (surface) vs. internal (probe) thermometer, Condar makes both. But here's two references:

Stove 1: loaded ~9 hours ago and set for 12 hour burn cycle, Condar FlueGard probe presently reads 375°F'ish

Stove 2: loaded ~14 hours ago and set for 24 hour burn cycle, Condar surface (magnetic) thermo on 6" single wall pipe presently reads 175°F

Also, do note these types of thermometers are all pretty inaccurate. I'd assume any temperature reading could be ±50°F error, or more. Atop that, the surface ones are affected so heavily by installation conditions (what's the pipe connected to, how far from stove, etc. The probe types are more consistent, for a given distance above the stove. So, while it's sometimes useful in the beginning to get a reference point from someone else, their true utility will become watching them for consistency in your own setup.

 

[Jcapo29]

I apologize, probe style in a double wall pipe. Still a bit gunshy on the long burns after seeing some creosote buildup in the cap. Longest ive gone so far is a 12 hour burn that tailed off active after about 8 hours. Let it come down since I had the house cooking, even with the windows open. Trying to keep an eye on both Guage now to keep it out of creosote deposit and get some longer burns in. Appreciate the feedback.

 

[stoveliker]

How tall is your chimney, and is it insulated (class A or insulated liner)? That will determine how much cool down there is on the way from the probe to the cap. There's going to be no estimates of that cool down here, but it's something to be aware of in finding the sweet spot for you.

The tail end of a burn should not make much if any creosote.

 

[Ashful]

Adding to what @stoveliker said, these flue probes give color ranges or an optimum flue temp target range based on an assumed chimney height and construction, aiming to avoid condensation under most common conditions, as the deposition rate of creosote goes up exponentially when the flue gas temperature falls below the temperature required to keep the water it's carrying suspended as vapor. Dry wood helps reduce that burden, but more importantly, keeping the combustor in the active region will ensure that the amount of creosote-depositing substance suspended in this exhaust gas mix is minimized. When there's minimal stuff going into the pipe, the criticality of keeping the pipe temperature up is reduced.

If you're like most of us, you're going to find some crud (dry popcorny burnt crap) in the first two feet of pipe off the flue collar, and another two feet of crud right at the top of the chimney (cool, condensing), with a mile of clean pipe in-between. The little bit of crud at the top is the penalty of owning a very efficient stove, that can indeed keep the heat in your house rather than sending it up the flue.

 

[TheElementalCashew]

Hey all, finally got my condor installed. What's the target flu temp with the cat in active for a long burn? Been seeing around 4 to 500. Got er up to 700 for about a half hour to clear out any creosote build up and then backed it down. Just wondering what the consensus is from the experts. Thanks everyone.

My Condar probe usually is pretty steady around 300* during a ~18 hour burn cycle.

 

[Highbeam]

If you're like most of us, you're going to find some crud (dry popcorny burnt crap) in the first two feet of pipe off the flue collar, and another two feet of crud right at the top of the chimney (cool, condensing), with a mile of clean pipe in-between. The little bit of crud at the top is the penalty of owning a very efficient stove, that can indeed keep the heat in your house rather than sending it up the flue.

I concur, dirty at the top. Dirty cap. Clean below that. I had a much cleaner flue when burning the noncat stove and it was brown/tan vs. the black from the BK. It's not just higher flue temperatures with the noncats keeping clean flues but also a higher flow rate due to the flood of secondary combustion air.

 

[Jcapo29]

How tall is your chimney, and is it insulated (class A or insulated liner)? That will determine how much cool down there is on the way from the probe to the cap. There's going to be no estimates of that cool down here, but it's something to be aware of in finding the sweet spot for you.

The tail end of a burn should not make much if any creosote.

Chimney is about 22 ft I believe with 18ft inside the house double wall with 2 30s and a vaulted ceiling box. Exterior is class A. I had posted some pictures of my cap observations that I noticed just by looking up and seeing some creosote icicles on the cap. Took everything apart for pictures up top, swept and also installed a new cat as per a reccomendation from the @bholler here since the age was unknown and I didn't do proper research. I ran some Rutland creosote powder like I did in my old Vermont castings. Got everything running now just don't want to have that buildup issue pop up again. Going to finish a face cord and go up to reinpect and evaluate my burn habit/ creosote build.

Adding to what @stoveliker said, these flue probes give color ranges or an optimum flue temp target range based on an assumed chimney height and construction, aiming to avoid condensation under most common conditions, as the deposition rate of creosote goes up exponentially when the flue gas temperature falls below the temperature required to keep the water it's carrying suspended as vapor. Dry wood helps reduce that burden, but more importantly, keeping the combustor in the active region will ensure that the amount of creosote-depositing substance suspended in this exhaust gas mix is minimized. When there's minimal stuff going into the pipe, the criticality of keeping the pipe temperature up is reduced.

If you're like most of us, you're going to find some crud (dry popcorny burnt crap) in the first two feet of pipe off the flue collar, and another two feet of crud right at the top of the chimney (cool, condensing), with a mile of clean pipe in-between. The little bit of crud at the top is the penalty of owning a very efficient stove, that can indeed keep the heat in your house rather than sending it up the flue.

I initially didn't find anything off the flue collar, mostly all of it was at the connection under the cap to the class A and in the cap itself. The efficiency I've seen from running it hotter than I probably should is already insane. Only loading it 2 to 3 times a day with maybe 4 on a single digit overnight lows. Keeps the house around 70 with high vaulted ceilings. No complaints as it sits now, just trying to optimize for sure.

I concur, dirty at the top. Dirty cap. Clean below that. I had a much cleaner flue when burning the noncat stove and it was brown/tan vs. the black from the BK. It's not just higher flue temperatures with the noncats keeping clean flues but also a higher flow rate due to the flood of secondary combustion air.

I seem to notice when the cat is in active mode and not glowing the vapor I do catch a glimpse of isnt zipping out of the chimney nearly as hard as I would expect. It seems to be slowing down quite a bit. It's a learning experience so far but the tips and tricks I've picked up here on running it and keeping wood inside to warm has seemed to help exponentially.

I really appreciate all the info and feedback. I'm looking forward to hanging here to learn as much as I can and hopefully someone else with similar issues can get some info from my own issues. Thanks again guys.

 

[Jcapo29]

@stoveliker chimney height in house is about 12 to 14 ft and 4 above roof. Can't figure out how to edit my post 18 hr day terrible guesstimate.

 

[stoveliker]

Ok, so cool down should not be so bad.

But you can't burn creosote powder in a cat stove. It ruins cats...

 

[Ashful]

But you can't burn creosote powder in a cat stove. It ruins cats...

Really? If I'm doing my sweep right before fall light-off, I just leave the crap in the stove, and burn it. Never knew it was a problem.

 

[stoveliker]

There is a misunderstanding; burning creosote is fine (that's what the Cat's main job is...). But jcapo29 said:
"I ran some Rutland creosote powder", i.e. anti-creosote powder, or whatever the sales phrases are.

the chemicals in such compounds are bad for cats - is what I have been told.

 

[Jcapo29]

There is a misunderstanding; burning creosote is fine (that's what the Cat's main job is...). But jcapo29 said:
"I ran some Rutland creosote powder", i.e. anti-creosote powder, or whatever the sales phrases are.

the chemicals in such compounds are bad for cats - is what I have been told.

Exactly what I used. Always used it in the old style stoves and saw a few references said it was okay. Learned the hard way.

 

[tabner]

been running this stove for a few weeks now, and I love it. Incredible piece of technology, thank you BK!
I have zero draft issues, reloads light right off, burns overnight no problem. On a warm reload I can fill it up, close the bypass, and turn down the thermostat about 4 minutes later and walk away for 10 hours. Really awesome.

 

[njk4o5]

I just bought a Ashford 30.2 floor model cant wait to try it out. After yet another time where my VC Encore went nuclear on me last weekend i threw in the towel time to get rid of that piece of scrap metal for a set it and forget it stove.

 

[stoveliker]

Question. I had my end-of-season creo-crisping fire last week (full box of 14% pine - I created some giant clinkers ).

Brushing the firebox now, and preparing it for summer storage.

I have the following question: when I brush behind the steel plate heat shield, the crud falls on and behind the top of the standing bricks.

-Is that an issue (leaving it there)? After all, the idea was to get most of the creosote away from the steel firebox wall.

I tried removing the side bricks to clean behind them with my shopvac, but after trying for 45 minutes I am unsuccessful in getting the bricks out. Ashes and crisp creosote crumbs have more or less locked them in place, due to friction both to their sides as well as to the bottom brick and to the firebox wall.

My manual does not show the exact location of the bricks with respect to each other, but from what I can see, the wall bricks go to the side of the floor bricks. I.e. the floor bricks go in between the left and right wall bricks, not under them.

I presume I should lift up a brick in the center of the side walls, and then tilt the bottom towards the center of the firebox and slide it out? How does one do that, without having grip on that (center) brick.

The front brick of the left side wall leaves a bit of a gap in the corner (the right wall does not), but I don't seem to be able to wiggle it out either.

So, if I should clean the creosote crumbs from behind the bricks, how do I start. Which brick do I take out first, and which movement do I make it have to get it out?

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Highbeam]

Question. I had my end-of-season creo-crisping fire last week (full box of 14% pine - I created some giant clinkers ).

Brushing the firebox now, and preparing it for summer storage.

I have the following question: when I brush behind the steel plate heat shield, the crud falls on and behind the top of the standing bricks.

-Is that an issue (leaving it there)? After all, the idea was to get most of the creosote away from the steel firebox wall.

I tried removing the side bricks to clean behind them with my shopvac, but after trying for 45 minutes I am unsuccessful in getting the bricks out. Ashes and crisp creosote crumbs have more or less locked them in place, due to friction both to their sides as well as to the bottom brick and to the firebox wall.

My manual does not show the exact location of the bricks with respect to each other, but from what I can see, the wall bricks go to the side of the floor bricks. I.e. the floor bricks go in between the left and right wall bricks, not under them.

I presume I should lift up a brick in the center of the side walls, and then tilt the bottom towards the center of the firebox and slide it out? How does one do that, without having grip on that (center) brick.

The front brick of the left side wall leaves a bit of a gap in the corner (the right wall does not), but I don't seem to be able to wiggle it out either.

So, if I should clean the creosote crumbs from behind the bricks, how do I start. Which brick do I take out first, and which movement do I make it have to get it out?

Any help is appreciated.

shop vac to suck out the ash from the cracks and then to suck up on a brick.

I can't believe you guys are already shutting down. We're still in the 30s most nights.

 

[Ashful]

30’s here every morning last week. I typically burn into first week of June, but night loads only.

Last night was warm, first night I’ve skipped loading since October.

 

[stoveliker]

then to suck up on a brick.

Are you saying to use the ("vacuum") suction to pull up the brick?
Not sure the roughness of the surface of the brick allows for that but I'll try.

And it should indeed be up, and then after the bottom of the brick is above the floor brick, pry the bottom towards the center of the stove?

I can't believe you guys are already shutting down. We're still in the 30s most nights.

Tonight I'll have 37 F for a low but it was 49 today. Tomorrow the same, then 52, 59, 65 during the day.
My "rule" is to not burn (but use the minisplit) unless it's below 40 (or 45 if I have a lot of wood for that year, as I had this year) for more than 24 hrs. The stove is in the basement, and burning only for a night is not that efficient if I have first to warm the 825 sq ft basement up before the heat really comes up to the main floor. And given that generally I run at 16 hrs + a partial load per day, if it's this warm during the day, I'd overheat myself in the home if I burn during the evening/night.

My last fire was last Sunday night when it was 32 F.

 

[tabner]

Same issue here, nights are chilly, but if the high for the day is sunny and 60, house overheats cause of the solar gain. Thought I was done burning a week or so ago, but we’ve got some night time lows in the high 20s this weekend so I fired it back up.
Couple questions:
-I thought I had always seen BK users say “rake the coals to the front” on a reload. But I find if I rake them all to the front it makes it difficult to get a full load of wood in. If I rake them all to one side, spread evenly front to back, the stove both loads better, and burns more steady. Do others do this?
-for the summer, do many people open the bypass and crack the front door, in order to reduce gasket compression? Or is that not necessary? If I do that I’m going to have to seal my chimney somehow because the summer time reverse airflow stinks.