2022/23 VC Owner thread

[arnermd]

That's the whole thing, I don't have secondary air control as it's controlled by a thermostatic coil that no one understands what it actually does. and not sure exactly what it does.

I am not intimately familiar with your model, I am sure there are others in the forum that are.... That said, here is what I think,

• A best I can tell from exploded parts diagrams the Encore model 0028 has a bimetal coil that controls your secondary air. YOU can't control it (like the primary air) it only responds to the cat temp.
• When the cat gets hot it should start restricting the air flow to keep cat temps in line. I do not know what is is supposed to control to, but I am guessing somewhere around 1200F.
• The bimetal coil is not going to react quickly it will take some time for it to adjust. If you are seeing short spikes to 1300-1400F but it comes down in 10-20 minutes that seems pretty normal to me. (again I have no experience with your stove, just my feelings here)
• If cats temps are hanging at over 1300-1400 for a long time maybe the control is allowing too much secondary air in.
  • Can you see the secondary air damper? Does it close when the cat gets hot? Sounds like it is closing.... If not then the maybe the bimetal is failed or the damper is hanging up.
  • If it is moving is there a way to adjust it so it is more closed?
  • If not maybe you can block part of the secondary inlet? Pretty sure this topic has been discussed in years past. Search past years VC-Owner-Threads.
• Another thought: On my stove if I run the primary too cold I get a really smokey fire and the cat goes ballistic with all the smoke. In this situation increasing the primary air will sometimes bring my cat temps down. My griddle likes to be around 400 -500F. The glass is a telltale sign, when I run too cold it will get loaded up with black sticky creosote.
• Closing the air down too fast commonly results in back puffs, that is a well known behavior. The solution is to bring the air down a little at a time. I adjust mine in 25% increments and that usually works... but not always.
• If your cat is rocketing up to temp when you engage it maybe you are waiting too long? Try engaging the cat earlier?
• The other issue I always check for is leaks around the glass. I found the glass retention screws on my stove loosen over time and when I toque them back up things calm down, sometimes....
• Not surprised no one a VC can help you. I suspect anybody who knew anything about wood stoves left many years ago, probably in one of the many sales of the company. I have tried seeking their assistance too and got nothing. You will find much more expertise on this forum.

Hope something in here is helpful.

 

[Eman85]

@arnermd The secondary air control coil will actually close without the cat engaged if the stove gets hot enough. I have watched the spring slowly close the shutter. What's a bit worrisome iss that the coil keeps going around and it looks like if the cat overheats it might actually start to open the shutter. There is another member with a VC stove that is happening on.

 

[arnermd]

@arnermd The secondary air control coil will actually close without the cat engaged if the stove gets hot enough. I have watched the spring slowly close the shutter. What's a bit worrisome iss that the coil keeps going around and it looks like if the cat overheats it might actually start to open the shutter. There is another member with a VC stove that is happening on.

I found an online rebuild manual for your stove, Encore 0028. Sounds like there is an adjustment you can make to set the position of the secondary air flapper. Have you checked this? If the flapper is going too far and letting more air in that could be your problem....

Assemble and install the secondary inlet assembly. Holding the secondary air probe and thermostat assembly with the probe facing away from you and the mounting tab at 12 o’clock, the tab on the end of the thermostat coil should be at 4 o’clock position, loosen the lock nuts on the probe shaft and adjust the coil tab and the mounting tab to the 4 o’clock and 12o’clock positions respectively and re-tighten the lock nuts. Insert the double bent end of the secondary air link through the hole in the tab end of the thermostat coil. Insert the single bent end of the secondary air link through the hole in the tab on the secondary air flap. Insert the secondary air probe through the drilling in the stove back and secure with 1 each, Phillips pan head machine screw (10-20x ¼”). Secure the secondary air flap to the stove back with 1 each, Phillips pan head machine screw (10- 24x ¼”) and 1 each, shim ring. Tighten the screw securing the air flap until snug and back off ¼ turn. Insure that the secondary air flap moves up and down freely and that the flap rests at or near the closed position. See figure A-8.

 

[Eman85]

I've seen that diagram and instructions. My coil is at 4 o'clock cold.

 

[arnermd]

What's a bit worrisome is that the coil keeps going around and it looks like if the cat overheats it might actually start to open the shutter. There is another member with a VC stove that is happening on.

So when the cat gets hot the shutter travels too far clockwise and opens a sliver at the top of the shutter?

• I would think there would be a stop on the shutter to prevent this, but I do not your stove well.
• If this is true maybe shorten the linkage or adjust the tang so it is at 3:00 or 2:00?
• Is it possible air is leaking in around the edges of the shutter? Like maybe it is bent or the hinge screw is too loose?

 

[Eman85]

So when the cat gets hot the shutter travels too far clockwise and opens a sliver at the top of the shutter?

• I would think there would be a stop on the shutter to prevent this, but I do not your stove well.
• If this is true maybe shorten the linkage or adjust the tang so it is at 3:00 or 2:00?
• Is it possible air is leaking in around the edges of the shutter? Like maybe it is bent or the hinge screw is too loose?

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/secondary-air-probe-opens-back-up.194481/
This is a link to another members post with pictures of their stove and what the probe and shutter are doing. Mine has not gotten to the point of reopening yet, but the thermostatic coil does wind around like his does and if I didn't turn it down I think it would do exactly what his does.
The shutter itself is just a thin piece of sheet metal that pivots on a screw. It could never seal off completely as there are no seals on it.

 

[arnermd]

Oh yeah.... I see what you are describing now, the bimetal spins past 6:00 and starts opening the air.

First thing I would try is setting that bimetal to 3:00 when cold and see what that does. If it is till too hot I would then try lengthening the linkage a bit.

Understood the shutter is just a metal plate but if the screw is loose maybe it is letting in a lot more air than it should? I would tighten that screw down till it binds the shutter than back it off an 1/8 or a 1/4 turn, just enough so it swings freely.

 

[Mreif]

Oh yeah.... I see what you are describing now, the bimetal spins past 6:00 and starts opening the air.

First thing I would try is setting that bimetal to 3:00 when cold and see what that does. If it is till too hot I would then try lengthening the linkage a bit.

Understood the shutter is just a metal plate but if the screw is loose maybe it is letting in a lot more air than it should? I would tighten that screw down till it binds the shutter than back it off an 1/8 or a 1/4 turn, just enough so it swings freely.

Can you put a small magnet at the bottom of the opening to stop the shutter were you want it.

 

[Eman85]

I've removed the screw and the shutter for cleaning. Screw tightens down and there is a split washer that fits into the shutter so no matter how tight the screw is the shutter is free. I could put a waved washer on the screw or just a flat washer and prevent the shutter from opening.
Sad I spent $65 on this coil and might disable it.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Here’s pictures of my refit for VC encore 2040

View attachment 300669 View attachment 300670 View attachment 300671 View attachment 300672 View attachment 300673

This just brought back the nightmares of doing my upper fireback last year on my 2550. Hopefully yours went a lot smoother than mine did.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Anyone have any similar situations with the newer VC’s? My Dauntless is loaded for the night, but the cat seems to be really taking off and causing a abnormal airflow, almost like it’s sucking air in. I have my bypass closed and the air control is 1 or 2 clicks from fully closed off. Usually in this setting the stove is just smoldering, and the cat gauge is at about the mid section. Right now the cat gauge is maxed out. The oddest part is the stove top temp is below average for the amount of air flow that seems to be going on inside the firebox.



View attachment 302738

In this situation you can open the bypass and start over. Let your flue temps get up to about 600 again and close the bypass with primary fully open. And then incrementally close your bypass.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Some of this may be your bed of coals isn't big enough. Believe the VC manual says 3" deep bed of coals. 3" is a lot and that 3" bed needs to be maintained. That's not necessarily an easy task. I think a misnomer here is that once the cat is activated above 500 degrees and is lighted it only needs smoke feed to it to keep it activated and not so much heat from the flue gases. I believe the manual states this or at least eludes to this. My experience is that the flue gas to the cat needs to have the temp maintained above 500 to keep the cat active, not just the smoke.

I don’t follow for manual for anything really. Other than clearances ti combustibles. Burning wood with the damper open until you have 3” of coal base seems wasteful to me. Even on cold starts with no coal bed I close the damper once my flue gases reach 600*.

 

[RandyBoBandy]

I love it.. My wifes good with the stove also.. The house was plenty warm for her today so she dialed it all the way back when it was mostly coals.. came home from.work to clean glass and the stove still at 300 degrees, from when I loaded it up at 5.30am..

Good for you...

You guys are lucky. My wife won’t touch the stove. I keep telling her she won’t learn if she doesn’t try.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

You guys are lucky. My wife won’t touch the stove. I keep telling her she won’t learn if she doesn’t try.

my wife loves the stove and sits in front of it a lot.. i give her just a few things to do.. close the damper at 600.. you can cut the air back when the cat temps 850 or above.. once the wood is in the coaling stage you can turn it back all the way if you want.. add wood if you want, if you do the cat needs to be 600 or above..

she can run the stove.. but processing, stacking, bringing in wood.. not her thing, and that doesn't bother me.. shes a great wife, an excellent mom, a beautiful homemaker..

 

[RandyBoBandy]

My Encore is old, model 0028 but since I replaced the cat and installed a temp probe I am struggling with it. I've had the cat start to run away and can't get it to cool down. It will start whooshing like it's really over firing and I have to shut the primary air off to get it to calm down. I've had it raise the flue temp very high. With my old cat and no probe I never had any problems like what I'm having now, I know it's not the probe. When my old cat was pretty much spent out I just burnt the stove in non cat mode which is what I'm doing now. I'm still waiting for the secondary air flap spring but I really don't think that will be the answer. I can control is if I only put a couple of splts in and let it burn down, if I load it I can't control it with the damper closed. If I don't close the damper I can load it and get 8+ hour burns using the stove like a conventional stove. I don't think I've got too much draft as my chimney is short straight up through a single story roof.

Brand new cats are very active. It should settle down some.

 

[Eman85]

OK, it was warm today so I let the stove go cold and started it up this evening. Started off great and closed the bypass damper and the cat was running about 1000* with the primary about 1/2 and STT about 550. All was good and went in the other room for a while then smelled where the stove puffed. Cat was at 1600 but dropping slowly and I looked at the secondary air. The secondary spring had wound around enough that it opened the secondary air more than 1/4. Cat dropped and settled at 1470 and secondary shutter is still opened a little.

 

[arnermd]

Couple thoughts:

• I would try adjusting the coil cold position to 3:00 and see what happens.
• Seems like there should be a stop that prevents the coil from winding around and opening back up again.
• I am very curious to know the design intent here from VC:
  • My initial thought was as the cat heats up it closes off secondary air to control the temp
  • But maybe if the cat overheats the intent is to dump more air in to bring the temp down? Assuming a fixed amount of smoke, running with too little air would reduce the temperature due to incomplete combustion but running with excess air will also bring the temp down. Peak temps are when the ratio of smoke to air is at stoich, either side of stoich gives you lower temps. If this was the intent then you want to set your coil at 5:00.

 

[NewGuy132]

Either the stove started working better for me or I finally figured it out. Although I don't think that I am getting any CAT action, but I am getting decent heat out of it and it seems to be more predictable. Here is what I do.

Start a small fire with a bunch of kindling. At this point I put on 2-3 splits. I let this burn down to coals with the bypass open. On a reload I push all coals to the back of the stove and add wood. I wait for it to start burning (10 minutes or so) then I close the bypass. The CAT temp will shoot up around 600-700. I then close the air to 75%, wait another 15 minutes or so and close the air to about 50%. I'll let it ride here until its time to reload. I am typically reloading when the CAT is around 400. I push all the coals back toss some wood on and repeat the process.

I really think that (as mentioned to me earlier) having a good coal bed is key to operating these stoves. I'll do another chimney sweep in the next week or so and see how it looks. I know I'm not getting the high CAT temps so we will see. At one point my cat had a couple spots that were gunked up. I flipped it over and those spots burned off so it must be activating at some point.

 

[Kevin Weis]

Either the stove started working better for me or I finally figured it out. Although I don't think that I am getting any CAT action, but I am getting decent heat out of it and it seems to be more predictable. Here is what I do.

Start a small fire with a bunch of kindling. At this point I put on 2-3 splits. I let this burn down to coals with the bypass open. On a reload I push all coals to the back of the stove and add wood. I wait for it to start burning (10 minutes or so) then I close the bypass. The CAT temp will shoot up around 600-700. I then close the air to 75%, wait another 15 minutes or so and close the air to about 50%. I'll let it ride here until its time to reload. I am typically reloading when the CAT is around 400. I push all the coals back toss some wood on and repeat the process.

I really think that (as mentioned to me earlier) having a good coal bed is key to operating these stoves. I'll do another chimney sweep in the next week or so and see how it looks. I know I'm not getting the high CAT temps so we will see. At one point my cat had a couple spots that were gunked up. I flipped it over and those spots burned off so it must be activating at some point.

Sounds like you got it down well. I re-load mine before it reaches 500. I don't push all the coals back to tye combuster but I make sure there some in front of it. Think there's a point where too much may hinder the flow to the cat but I don't think I've ever had much of that problem and the draft keeps it cleared out. If my cat gets too hot (>1300) I open the damper and pull some coals/wood back from the combuster some and the seems to settle it down well.

 

[NewGuy132]

Sounds like you got it down well. I re-load mine before it reaches 500. I don't push all the coals back to tye combuster but I make sure there some in front of it. Think there's a point where too much may hinder the flow to the cat but I don't think I've ever had much of that problem and the draft keeps it cleared out. If my cat gets too hot (>1300) I open the damper and pull some coals/wood back from the combuster some and the seems to settle it down well.

While my CAT will go to 600-700 just after I shut the damper it usually comes down and settles in the 500-650 area close to my STT. That doesn't leave much time between loads if I reload before its below 500. I typically reload when STT is around 350-400.

 

[arnermd]

While my CAT will go to 600-700 just after I shut the damper it usually comes down and settles in the 500-650 area close to my STT. That doesn't leave much time between loads if I reload before its below 500. I typically reload when STT is around 350-400.

500 - 650 seems much to cold..... But I do not know your stove. Would not be surprised if you are loading up your chimney with creosote. On my stove I do not get complete combustion until cat is at 1000F+ Unfortunately I regularly exceed 1400...

Have you checked your exhaust for smoke? When the wind blows the right way I can smell mine from the ground.

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

Found this doing some reading yesterday. Thought it would be good to share. Good explanation of process for one of these stoves. There is a flow chart I saw too that I forgot to save

2016/2017 VC owners thread

At what CAT temps does everyone start to get worried? I currently have my temp alarm go off at 1650, but semi regularly seem to hit that temperature on my Defiant 2n1. I have been thinking about closing off part of the secondary air on the underside/back of the stove. I remember reading a VC...

www.hearth.com

 

[RandyBoBandy]

Found this doing some reading yesterday. Thought it would be good to share. Good explanation of process for one of these stoves. There is a flow chart I saw too that I forgot to save

2016/2017 VC owners thread

At what CAT temps does everyone start to get worried? I currently have my temp alarm go off at 1650, but semi regularly seem to hit that temperature on my Defiant 2n1. I have been thinking about closing off part of the secondary air on the underside/back of the stove. I remember reading a VC...

www.hearth.com

This is definitely a good read. I remember when @jharkin was a prominent member of the VC thread. He did a great rebuild documentary and also did a great job on laying out basic operation of these stoves. He had a 2550 encore if I remember correctly

 

[RandyBoBandy]

While my CAT will go to 600-700 just after I shut the damper it usually comes down and settles in the 500-650 area close to my STT. That doesn't leave much time between loads if I reload before its below 500. I typically reload when STT is around 350-400.

You’re stalling your cat out. It should be running north of 1000* for 4-5 hours before it slowly starts to fall back down.

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

You’re stalling your cat out. It should be running north of 1000* for 4-5 hours before it slowly starts to fall back down.

How much wood is in the load?