2022/23 VC Owner thread

[Eman85]

It's was continuous though. Not happening now, I'm back and will let that stove go out then inspect top down tomorrow. Something is obstructed. Draft is probably a bit poor due to outside temps, and I put very large pieces of oak in and let it burn a couple hours before leaving. Oak is dead on 20 percent so maybe a couple of pieces I put in were more.

I've burned my stove with no cat and had to really pay attention to my chimney, I would notice right away if I had low draft. I never had any smoke issue despite needing a cleaning. I've never owned a moisture meter and I have burned wood that was wet and never had it cause my stove to smoke. You need to check your flue.

 

[arnermd]

you got this..

Nope.....

Cat was at 600, nice bed of coals. Opened bypass, threw some wood in, closed bypass. Never touched air or key damper or anything else.

Cat went to 1550, came down to 1200, then right up to 1680.... Closed my key damper and temps are now dropping to 1400..... Sigh....

 

[U235]

Nope.....

Cat was at 600, nice bed of coals. Opened bypass, threw some wood in, closed bypass. Never touched air or key damper or anything else.

Cat went to 1550, came down to 1200, then right up to 1680.... Closed my key damper and temps are now dropping to 1400..... Sigh....

Is 1680 the new record for the metal catalyst? I suppose it’s kind of an anti record…. Hopefully it’ll hold up better

 

[GrumpyDad]

I've burned my stove with no cat and had to really pay attention to my chimney, I would notice right away if I had low draft. I never had any smoke issue despite needing a cleaning. I've never owned a moisture meter and I have burned wood that was wet and never had it cause my stove to smoke. You need to check your flue.

Somehow I have/had a walmart bag stuck to the side. I didnt notice it at first. I still havent done a top down inspection / sweep yet but hopefully this weekend. SO that explains alot.

 

[GrumpyDad]

Is 1680 the new record for the metal catalyst? I suppose it’s kind of an anti record…. Hopefully it’ll hold up better

Id be curious if anyone here doesnt get their cat temps 'up there'. I wonder if sweeping the coals to the center then adding a split against the back would stop those spikes?

 

[arnermd]

Is 1680 the new record for the metal catalyst? I suppose it’s kind of an anti record…. Hopefully it’ll hold up better

I think so.... it was not there long as my alarm goes off at 1650..... but next warm spell I will check the cat and post back,

 

[arnermd]

Little experiment yesterday:

• Had a smaller bed of coals that I raked to the back
• Full load, smaller splits on the bottom to get things back up to temp
• Key damper full open for entire run
• Cat light off like a rocket, this was a very aggressive load. Guessing due to smaller splits and very little primary burn. I think it was all burning on the coals right at the secondary smoke inlet. Notice the griddle temps are pretty cold for a while.....
• I installed a rubber band on the flapper cable and set it pretty tight to seat the flapper closed. Temps came down hard
• Opened up the air just a little, temps came back up
• Closed again and temps came back down, hmmm.... seems to be working, that flapper must be leaking.
• Repeated the cycle again.... confirmed.
• Then I set air full closed, temps came down and then went back up again with no adjustments.... wtf? Demons are back.
• Temps crashed so I opened air up to 50%, took off like a rocket..... so dialed air down a bit.
• Gave me one last peak at the end (the typical FU) and then died out.....

So did the experiment work?

• Seems clear the flapper is leaking air at full closed without the rubber band assist
• Is that the real problem? I am not so sure.....
• May try removing the flapper during next warm spell to inspect, not sure I can remove it completely without a total teardown..... Maybe.
  • Anybody ever remove a flapper from outside the stove? Does the hinge lever come out with it?

 

[arnermd]

Id be curious if anyone here doesnt get their cat temps 'up there'. I wonder if sweeping the coals to the center then adding a split against the back would stop those spikes?

Raking coals to the middle or front slows the cat down for sure. However when I do that I struggle to get the cat lit off.... usually it will eventually go but it takes a lot longer.

I generally do not pile mine up in the back, unless it is a thin bed. I typically spread them out evenly and place my first piece of wood 2-3 inches away from the back.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Little experiment yesterday:

• Had a smaller bed of coals that I raked to the back
• Full load, smaller splits on the bottom to get things back up to temp
• Key damper full open for entire run
• Cat light off like a rocket, this was a very aggressive load. Guessing due to smaller splits and very little primary burn. I think it was all burning on the coals right at the secondary smoke inlet. Notice the griddle temps are pretty cold for a while.....
• I installed a rubber band on the flapper cable and set it pretty tight to seat the flapper closed. Temps came down hard
• Opened up the air just a little, temps came back up
• Closed again and temps came back down, hmmm.... seems to be working, that flapper must be leaking.
• Repeated the cycle again.... confirmed.
• Then I set air full closed, temps came down and then went back up again with no adjustments.... wtf? Demons are back.
• Temps crashed so I opened air up to 50%, took off like a rocket..... so dialed air down a bit.
• Gave me one last peak at the end (the typical FU) and then died out.....

So did the experiment work?

• Seems clear the flapper is leaking air at full closed without the rubber band assist
• Is that the real problem? I am not so sure.....
• May try removing the flapper during next warm spell to inspect, not sure I can remove it completely without a total teardown..... Maybe.
  • Anybody ever remove a flapper from outside the stove? Does the hinge lever come out with it?

View attachment 310454

View attachment 310453

If your shutter is leaking.. its a problem.. you will be getting primary air into the stove. Check it to see if the shutter is sealing when the stove is cold.. it should kinda clap against the body of the stove

 

[Woodsplitter67]

this morning's burn

 

[GrumpyDad]

Raking coals to the middle or front slows the cat down for sure. However when I do that I struggle to get the cat lit off.... usually it will eventually go but it takes a lot longer.

I generally do not pile mine up in the back, unless it is a thin bed. I typically spread them out evenly and place my first piece of wood 2-3 inches away from the back.

Well no one can ever say you didnt give it the college try. After all the data you've gathered have you come to a definitive set of rules to live by at this point, knowing that you may never be able to just set it and forget it? You mess with your stove about as much as I do. Ive gotten it down to 2-3 adjustments per load prior but typically Im adjusting as much as you.

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

Well no one can ever say you didnt give it the college try. After all the data you've gathered have you come to a definitive set of rules to live by at this point, knowing that you may never be able to just set it and forget it? You mess with your stove about as much as I do. Ive gotten it down to 2-3 adjustments per load prior but typically Im adjusting as much as you.

I've gotten the @Woodsplitter67 method down. Load it, cat gets to 1000, set it, on with my day. Things been running nonstop since last Wed. Used my oil heat 2 nights when it was 5 degrees. Otherwise just stove heat. 8-10 hr overnights burns.

Less tinkering has seemed to work better

 

[U235]

Little experiment yesterday:

• Had a smaller bed of coals that I raked to the back
• Full load, smaller splits on the bottom to get things back up to temp
• Key damper full open for entire run
• Cat light off like a rocket, this was a very aggressive load. Guessing due to smaller splits and very little primary burn. I think it was all burning on the coals right at the secondary smoke inlet. Notice the griddle temps are pretty cold for a while.....
• I installed a rubber band on the flapper cable and set it pretty tight to seat the flapper closed. Temps came down hard
• Opened up the air just a little, temps came back up
• Closed again and temps came back down, hmmm.... seems to be working, that flapper must be leaking.
• Repeated the cycle again.... confirmed.
• Then I set air full closed, temps came down and then went back up again with no adjustments.... wtf? Demons are back.
• Temps crashed so I opened air up to 50%, took off like a rocket..... so dialed air down a bit.
• Gave me one last peak at the end (the typical FU) and then died out.....

So did the experiment work?

• Seems clear the flapper is leaking air at full closed without the rubber band assist
• Is that the real problem? I am not so sure.....
• May try removing the flapper during next warm spell to inspect, not sure I can remove it completely without a total teardown..... Maybe.
  • Anybody ever remove a flapper from outside the stove? Does the hinge lever come out with it?

View attachment 310454

View attachment 310453

It would be interesting to see if biasing the primary air flap more closed would give you similar behavior as the rubber band. If it was ‘full closed’ at say 20% lever travel when cold, the remaining travel would just add pull it tighter? I suppose this is what the bimetallic spring is doing as the stove warms up….
There seems to be a different sealing effect between flap full closed and pulled tight with the bimetallic spring/cable and your rubber band contraption. Certainly the rubber band is pulling perpendicular to the flap at its center - can’t be better than that for sealing. I guess there’s some hope that the flap is capable of plugging the hole. It just seems to me that there’s something in how the cable pulls the flap shut that is skewing it and letting it leak. Sounds like an off season tear down…

 

[arnermd]

Well no one can ever say you didnt give it the college try. After all the data you've gathered have you come to a definitive set of rules to live by at this point, knowing that you may never be able to just set it and forget it? You mess with your stove about as much as I do. Ive gotten it down to 2-3 adjustments per load prior but typically Im adjusting as much as you.

Yeah lord knows I have put the effort in.....

To be honest I have not found anything that definitively works reliably. Early in the burn season I set my alarms to 1250 - 1300 and after a week or two of getting woken up in the middle of the night, every night, I bump my alarms up. I am currently set to 1650F, which is a lot hotter than I would like but I just don't have the time or patience to mess with the thing all day everyday. I burn 24/7, my oil heat thermostats are literally set to "off" and have been off for 5 years.

In order to preserve my sanity I set the alarm to 1650, I am sure I am sacrificing cat life and refractory life. I could care less about the cat, if I have to replace every two years that's fine. The refractory is a much bigger concern..... Fortunately I have a life time warrantee, we shall see how many times they will honor it....

Most of the time I am not messing around with the stove (1-2 adjustments once cruising typically), I just let it go, unless it hits 1650 which is a few times a week now. I hit 1600 almost daily but 1650 is much less frequent.

Below are a couple plots I have been watching, the first one is my temps for the whole burn season. You can see here I hit 1600 quite frequently. The flue temps were high then low and now high again, that's because I moved the TC in the stack. Hot location is 12" above the stove top, Colder location is ~48" above the stove top. The 1650 peaks do not always show in the plot because I only record data once every minute. So if I catch it and fix it in a minute it may not get logged.

The second plot is the amount of time the cat is >1000F per load. I have noticed a slight increase in "Cat hot time" since the metal cat went in. A couple of those may have been hot reloads..... but typically I am getting 3-4 hours of cat on time. It varies somewhat with the weather of course, when it is cold I run bigger loads, hotter.

 

[arnermd]

It would be interesting to see if biasing the primary air flap more closed would give you similar behavior as the rubber band. If it was ‘full closed’ at say 20% lever travel when cold, the remaining travel would just add pull it tighter? I suppose this is what the bimetallic spring is doing as the stove warms up….
There seems to be a different sealing effect between flap full closed and pulled tight with the bimetallic spring/cable and your rubber band contraption. Certainly the rubber band is pulling perpendicular to the flap at its center - can’t be better than that for sealing. I guess there’s some hope that the flap is capable of plugging the hole. It just seems to me that there’s something in how the cable pulls the flap shut that is skewing it and letting it leak. Sounds like an off season tear down…

Yes exactly.....

When my stove is cold the flapper is "closed", but sometimes if I pull on the cable I can feel it shift just a little bit. I need to tear it apart and look at it. Hoping I can do it without a complete teardown.....

The part that bothers me is.... I did have that one spike all on its own. If the flapper was the true root cause that should not have happened.

I think it is a question of degree..... these flappers are not perfect seals, obviously.... there is always some leakage. How much is too much?
If there are other leaks (EPA hole, gaskets, etc...) then any leakage through the flapper makes the problem worse but it may not be the root cause.

I am thinking there are three possible causes and it may be a combination of all three:
1) Flapper leaks
2) Other leaks
3) Demonic possession

 

[Lorde]

I've gotten the @Woodsplitter67 method down. Load it, cat gets to 1000, set it, on with my day. Things been running nonstop since last Wed. Used my oil heat 2 nights when it was 5 degrees. Otherwise just stove heat. 8-10 hr overnights burns.

Less tinkering has seemed to work better

After a few weeks I have adopted a similar method. Stuff it full on hot coals, wait until cat hits 1000, close air all the way down, repeat in 6-8 hours (or randomly add some misshapen pieces along the way to use them up if I am sitting around).

My only problem is that the stove runs great, and hot, with air closed all the way down. It feels like I should be able to turn things down further. STT will hit 650 on a full load every time. If I could dial things back enough to get a full 8-9 hours on every burn I would be thrilled, what a bummer in the morning to come down to a warm stove with no coals.

My cat temps very rarely exceed 1400, my record is 1530 for a few minutes. I've only seen 1500+ with maple and ash, never with oak for some reason.

My wood ranges from 18-22% moisture.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I've gotten the @Woodsplitter67 method down. Load it, cat gets to 1000, set it, on with my day. Things been running nonstop since last Wed. Used my oil heat 2 nights when it was 5 degrees. Otherwise just stove heat. 8-10 hr overnights burns.

Less tinkering has seemed to work better

Thanks for the heads up.. makes the posting seem worthwhile. What stove you running

 

[GrumpyDad]

After a few weeks I have adopted a similar method. Stuff it full on hot coals, wait until cat hits 1000, close air all the way down, repeat in 6-8 hours (or randomly add some misshapen pieces along the way to use them up if I am sitting around).

My only problem is that the stove runs great, and hot, with air closed all the way down. It feels like I should be able to turn things down further. STT will hit 650 on a full load every time. If I could dial things back enough to get a full 8-9 hours on every burn I would be thrilled, what a bummer in the morning to come down to a warm stove with no coals.

My cat temps very rarely exceed 1400, my record is 1530 for a few minutes. I've only seen 1500+ with maple and ash, never with oak for some reason.

My wood ranges from 18-22% moisture.

wow 650 with it fully closed. That's amazing. I generally run with my air control half way and keep it purring in the range of 425-500 throughout the burn,..aside from a morning wakup temp usually being around 350 - 400. Sometimes I get up there but it's usually when I either didnt have enough coals and the wood is taking longer to get started or I put some really big pieces that have more moisture content than Im used to having.

I split some white oak the other day at was right at 20% MC. I've had a few pieces that I couldnt resist splitting because they were just a bit too chonky and they were 23%. But all my mid to larger white oak splits are below 21% thankfully. Red oak is lower, and everything else even lower.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

After a few weeks I have adopted a similar method. Stuff it full on hot coals, wait until cat hits 1000, close air all the way down, repeat in 6-8 hours (or randomly add some misshapen pieces along the way to use them up if I am sitting around).

My only problem is that the stove runs great, and hot, with air closed all the way down. It feels like I should be able to turn things down further. STT will hit 650 on a full load every time. If I could dial things back enough to get a full 8-9 hours on every burn I would be thrilled, what a bummer in the morning to come down to a warm stove with no coals.

My cat temps very rarely exceed 1400, my record is 1530 for a few minutes. I've only seen 1500+ with maple and ash, never with oak for some reason.

My wood ranges from 18-22% moisture.

If you have the same stove as me, Id say you probably have an air leak or your shutter in not fully closing
I say this because 650 is way to hot for a stt with air all the way back. You should have a stt in the mid 400s or 400 something like that. Our wood may be different but your burn seams short, 8/9 hours also suggests more air, if your burning oak.
My stove is on an 8inch pipe so I know my draft is good, thats a variable that can be taken out, between our stoves.
If you want to improve your burn time and have a lower stt Id look in that direction..

 

[arnermd]

After a few weeks I have adopted a similar method. Stuff it full on hot coals, wait until cat hits 1000, close air all the way down, repeat in 6-8 hours (or randomly add some misshapen pieces along the way to use them up if I am sitting around).

My only problem is that the stove runs great, and hot, with air closed all the way down. It feels like I should be able to turn things down further. STT will hit 650 on a full load every time. If I could dial things back enough to get a full 8-9 hours on every burn I would be thrilled, what a bummer in the morning to come down to a warm stove with no coals.

My cat temps very rarely exceed 1400, my record is 1530 for a few minutes. I've only seen 1500+ with maple and ash, never with oak for some reason.

My wood ranges from 18-22% moisture.

650 full closed seems on the hot side.....

Have you checked the flapper setting?

Is the flapper fully closed when you are cruising at 650? If so you might try plugging up the epa hole.

 

[Lorde]

If you have the same stove as me, Id say you probably have an air leak or your shutter in not fully closing
I say this because 650 is way to hot for a stt with air all the way back. You should have a stt in the mid 400s or 400 something like that. Our wood may be different but your burn seams short, 8/9 hours also suggests more air, if your burning oak.
My stove is on an 8inch pipe so I know my draft is good, thats a variable that can be taken out, between our stoves.
If you want to improve your burn time and have a lower stt Id look in that direction..

650 full closed seems on the hot side.....

Have you checked the flapper setting?

Is the flapper fully closed when you are cruising at 650? If so you might try plugging up the epa hole.

It is a new Encore 2040 Cat C installed mid-January this year. On a mostly full load of oak with air shut down I'm 50/50 getting usable coals at 8ish hours overnight.

The stove is stuffed in a masonry fireplace and I have been too lazy (and stove to hot) to squeeze back there to check the air shutter in the back. If the shutter is not fully closing is there a good writeup somewhere on how to remedy?

Cat temps have been good and upon inspection cat looks great so I have not been wanting to mess with things but cruising overnight with 400-450 STT and usable coals in the morning is my goal.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

It is a new Encore 2040 Cat C installed mid-January this year. On a mostly full load of oak with air shut down I'm 50/50 getting usable coals at 8ish hours overnight.

The stove is stuffed in a masonry fireplace and I have been too lazy (and stove to hot) to squeeze back there to check the air shutter in the back. If the shutter is not fully closing is there a good writeup somewhere on how to remedy?

Cat temps have been good and upon inspection cat looks great so I have not been wanting to mess with things but cruising overnight with 400-450 STT and usable coals in the morning is my goal.

So.. your a CAT C.. yeah.. your going to be hotter.. VC came out with the CAT C to meet the 2020 emission standards.. you cant dial yours back as far as our older stoves.. but to be on the safe side.. check your shutter while the stove is cold.. post a couple picks at fully closed.. half.. wide open.. you might want to change your signature to reflect that stove your using

 

[Lorde]

So.. your a CAT C.. yeah.. your going to be hotter.. VC came out with the CAT C to meet the 2020 emission standards.. you cant dial yours back as far as our older stoves.. but to be on the safe side.. check your shutter while the stove is cold.. post a couple picks at fully closed.. half.. wide open.. you might want to change your signature to reflect that stove your using

Thanks I didn't know there were multiple versions of the Encore 2040

Not being able to dial things back as much - is that related to "EPA holes"? Have not searched for them yet but not opposed to finding them and seeing if some amount of blocking will help me control STT.

Any idea what STT would actually qualify as an over-fire and be cause for concern?


Thanks again.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

Thanks I didn't know there were multiple versions of the Encore 2040

Not being able to dial things back as much - is that related to "EPA holes"? Have not searched for them yet but not opposed to finding them and seeing if some amount of blocking will help me control STT.

Any idea what STT would actually qualify as an over-fire and be cause for concern?


Thanks again.

So I would still check the primary air.. because that still seams hot.. thats close to the max of what the stove should be running at. The burn time seams a little short
The EPA holes are for your secondary burn and have nothing to do with the primary air control.. Id check to make sure the shutter is fully closing when you turn the air back all the way, cold stove only.. you should hear the shutter clap against the stove..
Your welcome.. the object of the site is to share the knowledge... help others..
Take some pictures colsed.. half and fully open.. post them let me take a look

 

[JohnDaileyNH]

Thanks for the heads up.. makes the posting seem worthwhile. What stove you running

Encore 2040 Cat-C. First season with it and just burning wood in general. You've been very helpful so thank you.

Went from a tank of oil every 5 weeks to .5 tank the entire winter so I'd say so far success. Knock on wood