2022 Garden Thread

[DuaeGuttae]

if you keep your nitrogen levels up youll get less disease. I ues a combination of organic in the garden but use a synthetic fertilizer also.. for the tomatoes im using a cheap 15-30-15 I double the amount of water to make it a 7-15-7 and feed evey 7 to 10 days foliar im using roughly 2.5 gallons on 14 plants. I feed roughly 4 days before a rain so it has time to absorb. This is the cheapest way to feed is to buy a higher analysis fertilizer and cutting it to half or less.

I think Woodsplitter67 is right that you need to be using a water soluble fertilizer on your plants in pots. I use a lot of meals to amend my garden beds, and I love that method for long-term gardening. I know you worked on your soil biology in those containers, Poindexter, but plants in containers need more quick feeding, I think. Especially with the amount of water they’re using with your long days, it may be better to feed them much more consistently but at diluted strength. I’m definitely not a container expert, but it caught my attention that you seem to be using only meals, and those tend to be longer-term slow-release methods, not what you need for a rush-to-production container tomato.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Half of the interest in gardening is trying new things.

I have several experiments going on right now: indoor lettuce, zucchini, and za’atar; cucumber suckers in water; a ton of sweet potato vines that I grew as slips that were overrunning their planter, so my husband literally dumped them in a low spot in our backyard; amaranth seedlings in cotton balls in the Aerogarden. So far things are surviving. Some success will make the experimentation a lot more fun than complete failure.

I’ll try to update the individual experiments as I have time to get pictures.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I have several experiments going on right now: indoor lettuce, zucchini, and za’atar; cucumber suckers in water; a ton of sweet potato vines that I grew as slips that were overrunning their planter, so my husband literally dumped them in a low spot in our backyard; amaranth seedlings in cotton balls in the Aerogarden. So far things are surviving. Some success will make the experimentation a lot more fun than complete failure.

I’ll try to update the individual experiments as I have time to get pictures.

this sounds interesting.. an update and some pics would be cool.. thanks for all u post.. its an interesting thread we have here

 

[Woodsplitter67]

I've picking tomatoes since the beginning of july.. this is the earliest iv gotten them. I started my plants at the usual time (beginning of February) but this time I turned up the heat a little warmer at night in the greenhouse, and when I planted the beginning of may they already had some flowers on them. Keeping the greenhouse at 60 degrees at night made a big difference to all the plants this year..

 

[EatenByLimestone]

My wife asked me about getting a small greenhouse a couple evenings ago. I think she does this to tease me. Maybe I can make something happen, lol.

 

[Dan Freeman]

My wife asked me about getting a small greenhouse a couple evenings ago. I think she does this to tease me. Maybe I can make something happen, lol.

Get a greenhouse! You will love it! They are so much fun. I have had a greenhouse since 2016.

 

[Dan Freeman]

Today we got another 5" dug out of the pond in what will be the deep end. We have about 3 more inches to dig down in the shallow end which will be about 24" deep and 10 more inches to dig down in the deep end which will be about 36" deep.



I was watching a YouTube video last night of a guy who dug a garden pond in his yard by hand. He said it took him from May until August to get it dug. He said he never worked more than 1/2 hour a day, setting in his mind that it would take a while. He said this mindset helped him not to cut corners or settle for a more shallow pond. That's about what we are doing. We have set a goal/limit of 3 wheelbarrows a day of removal when we dig as not to become overwhelmed or overworked. Today, was easier with the cooler temps and low humidity.

I also got another 45 gallons of clay sifted so I now have about 90 gallons sifted that we will use to replace about 2" when we finish digging to cover the exposed shale before we put down the underlayment.



This afternoon, I split about 4 wheelbarrows of firewood. Long workday but rewarding.

Also picked some tomatoes, onions, peppers, beets and turnips today.

 

[Woodsplitter67]

My wife asked me about getting a small greenhouse a couple evenings ago. I think she does this to tease me. Maybe I can make something happen, lol.

I custom built mine. My son wanted one, though it would be cool. One month later it was up. There was a little learning curve as its not a completely commercial one. Its upgraded enough to get my plants to winter and againt start my plants latter part of winter and not kill me on energy..
Put one together.. mine is 5mm polly carb 2x4 and a cheap insulated door from HD..

 

[DuaeGuttae]

this sounds interesting.. an update and some pics would be cool.. thanks for all u post.. its an interesting thread we have here

Here are some I shot this afternoon.

I went right out on Thursday morning and took some cucumber cuttings. It’s easy to start cucumbers from seed, but I thought I’d give this a try. The cuttings are in baby bottles. The smaller ones are my Alibi Hybrid pickling cucumbers. They’re blossoming up a storm, but I’m bringing male blossoms from my other variety over to hand pollinate, so I’m hoping I can stick a cutting of the other variety in that bed.

The larger leaves in the larger bottle are Jibai Shimoshirazu, an OP variety that is new to me. It has been growing and blossoming with tons of male blossoms but only a handful of female blossoms on two plants. We’ve eaten two cucumbers from one plant, and that’s it. I think the heat and drought are stressing it enough that it’s not putting its energy into fruit. When I took the cuttings, they pretty much immediately wilted, and I wasn’t sure that they were going to make it at all. They’ve really perked back up, though, and so I have some hope.



This is my indoor salad bowl. I mixed a variety of lettuce seeds with some herb seeds and green onion and radish seeds and sowed them thickly. I had better germination than I expected. It’s slow growing, but at least it’s growing. The rectangular planter in the back has my little za’atar sprouts (a Syrian oregano), and my zucchini is growing slowly. Its not as big as it’s sibling in the garden, but that one has already had squash vine borer eggs laid on it. I scraped them off, but I’m sure I missed some and will miss others in the future.


The photo below is my Aerogarden tray outside so that the plants get used to some sunlight. I have it where it will get afternoon shade as it is so miserably hot and bright that I burned a couple tender leaves already. I have just a few eggplant, pepper, and tomato seeds toward the top in peat sponges. Some haven’t germinated yet.

The really green stuff is algae growing on the cotton balls I used in the other slots to start some amaranth seedlings. They germinated and are growing, but the cottonballs seem to be very susceptible to algae growth. (I had done some corn in my other Aerogarden and ended up planting it out before it was all germinated because of algae on the cotton balls. What was already sprouted is doing okay. What hadn’t germinated in the Aerogarden hasn’t come up in my garden either.)


I had been growing kale in the Aerogarden pictured above, but it didn’t produce enough for our family of six, so I took it out to start the other plants. I’m a sucker for giving plants a chance, though, and I had an empty planter with potting soil in it, so I moved the kale there. It had really tangled roots that I had to tear to get it out of the Aerogarden, but it seems to have survived and may be starting to show signs of new growth.


These are my sweet potato vines that my husband dumped out in our backyard (near a dead lime tree). They’re wilted because I didn’t water them this morning before church, and it was already over 100 degrees by the time I got home and got to them. They were going through gallons every day in my planter, and this location gives them more access to soil and lets me get a hose to them from my rain barrel. I’m not really looking for a crop (I have slips in the garden). This is just what was left over from my slip production, and I’m happy to let it keep growing in a barren spot in the yard if they can make it.



The last photo is my first blushing Taiga tomato. I picked it yesterday and am giving it a little more time to ripen indoors. It won’t turn red, just green with pink, but I’m very excited about it.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Ugh. My husband tells me that our outdoor thermometer is reading 105 right now, and it shows that we apparently hit 108 some time today. I’m inside in the air conditioning (thermostat set to 82) with the ceiling fan going.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

It’s 10:30 in the morning and already up to 98 degrees. I got outside really early and did the watering before it got up to 90 degrees thankfully.

I noticed last night that one of my Alibi cucumber cuttings already has quite visible roots on it. There may be some bulges on the Jibai type. Early this morning, therefore, I sneaked the bottles onto the deck in a shady corner. The did get some direct morning sunshine but should be in shade for the afternoon. I didn’t want the leaves to soften up (I guess that‘s the opposite of ”hardening off”) too much inside, but I figure that these guys wouldn’t stand a chance in a whole day of sunshine at this point.

 

[begreen]

The rectangular planter in the back has my little za’atar sprouts (a Syrian oregano),

Za'atar is marjoram, but it also describes a Middle-Eastern spice mix. Here is one recipe:

All About Za’atar, the Spice Mix That We Can’t Stop Sprinkling

What, is it our fault that za'atar goes with just about everything?!?!

www.bonappetit.com

We get this blend from Penzey's Spices. It has the added sumac, a little thyme, and toasted sesame seeds. The sumac gives it a good tang.

Zatar

Popular Middle-Eastern tabletop blend.

www.penzeys.com

I don't know how folks put up with that heat. I love summer and being outdoors, but summer in the Pac NW is very pleasant in comparison and we cool down a lot at night.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Za'atar is marjoram, but it also describes a Middle-Eastern spice mix. Here is one recipe:

All About Za’atar, the Spice Mix That We Can’t Stop Sprinkling

What, is it our fault that za'atar goes with just about everything?!?!

www.bonappetit.com

We get this blend from Penzey's Spices. It has the added sumac, a little thyme, and toasted sesame seeds. The sumac gives it a good tang.

Zatar

Popular Middle-Eastern tabletop blend.

www.penzeys.com

I don't know how folks put up with that heat. I love summer and being outdoors, but summer in the Pac NW is very pleasant in comparison and we cool down a lot at night.

The Palestinian friend of mine who introduced me to za’atar as an herb and as a delicious spice blend also taught me that her culture tends to name a dish by its primarily ingredient or distinguishing feature. “Hummus” is just Arabic for ”chickpea,” and so the herb blend za’atar takes its name from the plant za’atar (origanum Syriacum )which is the plant I’m trying to grow in my little planter. I had some that I grew from seed last year, and it flourished outside all last summer and fall, and I used it extensively in my cooking last year. It died in a winter ice storm, and I haven’t succeeded in getting a big enough one yet to replace it. I’m glad I have three little starts now.

This same Palestinian friend also introduced me to the idea of eating sumac. I had never heard of it before and was rather shocked as I just thought of sumac as something rash-producing like poison ivy or oak (and I’m very allergic). I was kind of scared to try it, but I did, and I loved the tang. We used to have a big bag of the spice za’atar that my friend’s mother had made and brought when she visited America, but that’s all eaten up now. I think I might have to ask my friend for her mother’s recipe (if that’s allowed to be shared) or find out what she recommends. We loved that spice on top of hummus, and I’d love to have it in my cabinet again.

I love being outdoors, but summer wasn’t really my favorite even before I moved to Texas (and I didn’t choose Texas for the climate either; we just went where my husband got a job). I’m staying indoors right now in this weather, though. We’re at 104 right now (after hitting 107 before a few clouds popped up). Fall, winter, and spring tend to be beautiful here, though I miss snowy weather (though we’ve had three good snowstorms in my almost five years here). I’ve never been to the Pacific Northwest at all, but it looks like a beautiful place. I’d love to visit there someday.

I cut open my Taiga tomato today to serve on BLT’s for lunch. It was an excellent, meaty tomato, and made great slices for our sandwiches.



I know I’m inordinately proud of this one tomato, but it has given me a lot of pleasure, so I’m sharing it.

 

[begreen]

Yes! We put za'atar spice mix in and on our hummus too. It's also great for chicken dishes with yogurt and cilantro.

The taiga is interesting and very meaty. It looks like there are very few seeds. How would you compare the flavor and acidity? It's interesting that it has done well for you. This is considered a northern variety, bred in Canada. The pictures I have seen show some more red streaks in it. I have considered growing it for our shorter season. This may sway me.

 

[EatenByLimestone]

DG,

Have you looked into drip irrigation? It may limit water useage and keep the plants supplied better. I’ve never really looked into it, but we don’t have the same water worries here.

 

[begreen]

I think Woodsplitter67 is right that you need to be using a water soluble fertilizer on your plants in pots. I use a lot of meals to amend my garden beds, and I love that method for long-term gardening. I know you worked on your soil biology in those containers, Poindexter, but plants in containers need more quick feeding, I think. Especially with the amount of water they’re using with your long days, it may be better to feed them much more consistently but at diluted strength. I’m definitely not a container expert, but it caught my attention that you seem to be using only meals, and those tend to be longer-term slow-release methods, not what you need for a rush-to-production container tomato.

A couple years ago I tried a container tomato in the greenhouse. It was not a great success. The outdoor plants of the same variety did much better. This year I am trying out several dwarf tomato varieties in containers. They are thriving. So far I have not fed them anything but what went into the original soil mix which was composted mulch, miracle grow potting mix, and composted horse manure with Tomato-Tone fertilizer and worm castings added. So far they have received no other fertilizer. Both were late starts due to our cold spring, but are catching up and in bloom now. I also have a couple trialing in our raised beds. One, the Russian Purple Dwarf has tomatoes forming.


The dwarf tomato project is a cooperative project between US and Australian growers. I am new to it and got these plants in a trade with another local gardener. If successful, next year I will select my own seeds. There's a good database on varieties that lets one zoom in on desirable characteristics.

Dwarf Tomato Project – A co-operative venture

www.dwarftomatoproject.net

If you want to learn more, here is a recording of a webinar presentation:

 

[Dan Freeman]

After we were labeling all day (jams, salsas, bbq sauces, hot sauces, etc. ..our home biz), I picked some produce.

Left to right...



string beans (left a lot of them out there), shishito peppers, tomatoes, peas, and a cucumber.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Yes! We put za'atar spice mix in and on our hummus too. It's also great for chicken dishes with yogurt and cilantro.

The taiga is interesting and very meaty. It looks like there are very few seeds. How would you compare the flavor and acidity? It's interesting that it has done well for you. This is considered a northern variety, bred in Canada. The pictures I have seen show some more red streaks in it. I have considered growing it for our shorter season. This may sway me.

I exchanged some texts with my Palestinian friend last night about za’atar. She recommended that I try ordering the spice mix from a site called zandzdc.com . She’s had some of their blend at a farm stand and says it’s really good. (She also doesn’t order lots of za’atar since her mother keeps her supplied, so that’s not to say that some other brand isn’t good also. This is just what she could recommend to me.)

The Taiga tomato was really delicious on our BLTs, but I don’t consider myself a tomato connoisseur. It was certainly much more flavorful than a store-bought tomato. It had more tang than sweetness but not an unpleasant acidity. We all agreed that it made a great addition to sandwiches.

I don’t have much production on my vines, but the fact that it is producing anything at all this summer strikes me as impressive. I’ve read that there is some similarity in the way plants protect themselves from cold and heat, and so sometimes a variety bred for cold can endure heat well. I don’t understand the science of that, but maybe that’s what’s going on in this case. Karen Olivier suggested to me a while back that the tomatoes might not have many seeds at all. She said that the fruits that set in cooler weather for her have fewer seeds, and so she was speculating that the same might prove true for setting in hotter weather. I think the variety is know for few seeds even in more normal conditions.

I harvested a second Taiga today but was really saddened to see that a squirrel had taken a chunk out of it.
I only have one left at this point. It’s so hot right now that I’m thinking of chopping the vines way back, leaving just a couple of the lowest suckers to grow out into new vines. I didn’t do it this morning as the heat was pretty unbearable even early.

 

[DuaeGuttae]

After we were labeling all day (jams, salsas, bbq sauces, hot sauces, etc. ..our home biz), I picked some produce.

Left to right...

View attachment 296991

string beans (left a lot of them out there), shishito peppers, tomatoes, peas, and a cucumber.

Beautiful!

 

[DuaeGuttae]

DG,

Have you looked into drip irrigation? It may limit water useage and keep the plants supplied better. I’ve never really looked into it, but we don’t have the same water worries here.

I looked into it when we first moved down here. I know it’s sort of like the holy grail of irrigation, but several neighbors recommended against it as did even the local extension agent. It’s because of the high mineral content of the water. I guess it leads to clogging quite frequently.

I use rain water, of course, but back when I set up the garden I didn’t have a pump. As the garden has kept expanding, however, it became unreasonable to try to water the whole kit and caboodle at one time without one. Even with one it does take a lot of time. I can say, though, that the ollas are doing a good job keeping water available to the plants that are large enough to take advantage of them. (I’m still watering some seedlings.). What takes time is my having to fill the ollas every second day in this heat. I’m quite ready for it to end.

 

[begreen]

After we were labeling all day (jams, salsas, bbq sauces, hot sauces, etc. ..our home biz), I picked some produce.

Left to right...

View attachment 296991

string beans (left a lot of them out there), shishito peppers, tomatoes, peas, and a cucumber.

Yum, that looks fantastic. We are a long way off from this kind of harvest this year. Well, except for the peas which I just picked the last of this morning. I am surprised yours hung in there in the summer heat.

 

[Dan Freeman]

Yum, that looks fantastic. We are a long way off from this kind of harvest this year. Well, except for the peas which I just picked the last of this morning. I am surprised yours hung in there in the summer heat.

Me too! But they are still going strong. Lincoln Peas and Super Snappy peas.

 

[begreen]

Me too! But they are still going strong. Lincoln Peas and Super Snappy peas.

I read about the Super Snappys. We usually grow Sugar Snaps and eat pod and all. How are the pods on the Super Snappys?

 

[Dan Freeman]

I read about the Super Snappys. We usually grow Sugar Snaps and eat pod and all. How are the pods on the Super Snappys?

I haven't been eating the pods. I have been giving them to the chickens.

 

[Poindexter]

It is a wrap for me this year, with no harvest other than wisdom. I will take it. I went after the leaf mold aggressively with hydrogen peroxide at 1:16 daily after pruning aggressively, stepped up to 1:8, kept losing, and finally just whacked the plants to keep them from polluting the rest of the garden. My wife is growing grape tomato this year that seem to be leaf mold resistant, but I don't see a good reason to test her plants any further. With daily hydrogen peroxide treatments I had grey/black spores forming on the undersides of the leaves on my Amish Paste, that lined up good with the light green/ yellow spots on the upper sides of the leaves.

I am planning to run 4 containers next year, two with a leaf mold resistant hybrid like maybe Early Girl, and two more Amish Paste. Next step for me is to take the two containers I have to the dump, ditch the dirt and run high level disinfection on the containers. If I can get that done fast enough I will see about new dirt and a cover crop of clover to get some nitrate bacteria in the soil this summer, but I am not sure the bacteria will overwinter outdoors. I may end up doing clover and corn in these two containers next year as a bacteria fixer and leaf mold blocker.

A new to me concept is "Growing Degree Days" at base temp +50dF. I know all about "Heating Degree Days," Fairbanks has about 13,000 of those annually. I am not clear on if I get extra credit for having lots of daylight in the summer. In general, Fairbanks is rated as having 850 growing degree days between last and first frost with 'tomato' in general requiring 1300 growing degree days.

I think I had a fair shot at bringing the Amish Paste in until the leaf mold got me. As of July 9 my plants were 30-32 inches tall (36-48 expected for the determinate variety), and they looked nitrogen deprived to @Woodsplitter67 based on a picture on the internet. First frost Sept one. And I had the second truss available for pruning on July 9. The way they were going I think they might have reached 36" about July 20 or so with 41 days left before first frost to make trusses, pollinate, set fruit and ripen fruit. They might have needed some help in late August, I usually light my wood stove in the 20's of August, but there was hope to have a decent harvest.

Next year, different,
1) I will stick seeds in the dirt around mid April instead of early April, and keep them indoors until overnight lows are are forecast above +50dF. We had an overnight low of +43dF on June 1 after I transplanted and I think the cold stress slowed them down; they didn't do jack doodle for about two weeks after transplant.
2) Next year I will start spraying them down with with hydrogen peroxide at 1:16 about a week before transplant. The plants tolerated it fine, even 1:8 for a few days right on the terminal bud, but H2O2 only works on fairly mild infestations. For me.
3) More nitrogen sooner. I got nine months to read up on this. Not sure how many gallons of compost tea I can fit in the garage over the winter, but that is how may gallons I will make and feed.
4) Prune for airflow. I was trying to keep leaves and branches for root development, probably should have pruned more and sooner. Recently found "the canadian gardener" on you tube. She is a soil scientist, but doesn't apologize for growing good cannabis either. Her tomato look pretty desirable. Next year I will prune in the 'lollipop' manner.
5) I am going to do bacteria inoculated charcoal bits annually. To me soil is an organism and not a material. After winter in Alaska, I am starting with a material every May that needs to become an organism in 3-4 weeks.

With gardening out of the way for this summer, I shall undertake canning tomato from Kroger this weekend - God help me.