30nc gasket on door

[slickschoppers]

I looked up the dollar bill test before heading home for lunch. the new 30nc doesn't pass.......

on certain parts of the door it does pass the dollar bill test, but on the hinge side, I can pull the bill out, it has some resistance, but not a whole lot.

on the hinge side of the door I noticed that it has from what I've read the regular dense black gasket,

PLUS some flat gasket that is stuck on top of the round gasket (top being toward the stove) I have to imagine that it didn't pass an internal quality check of some sort and the fix was putting flat gasket over the top of the round gasket?????

I loaded it up anyway, and got a fire going... (btw, I quit putting wood in it last night at 10pm and there were still a few small hot coals in it at 12:30pm today) I got it heated up, about 600 degree single wall chimney temp and 550 stove top temp. Shut the door, and when I push the control lever ALL the way in you can definatley tell a difference it will almost choke out the flames. there just isn't much difference between full open, and half way open.

I'm not getting secondary burn for very long that I've noticed. usually a wall of secondarys for 2 to 4 minutes, then just a nice calm burn. you can definately see where the dog house is blowing air into the firebox, the coals glow bright red at that location and the flames are behind it....

so,,, second fire in, and it seems to be working.

I'll just have to look into the gasket. I think what I might do is the smoke test others have mentioned to see if it is actually drawing air in around the door.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

Sounds pretty normal. The fact that when you choke the air adj all the way down it almost puts out the flames means your not leaking that much air if any. The secondaries will act differently with different wood and different moisture content so i dont think thats an indication of air leakage. If you were leaking a lot of air, the air adj rod wouldnt make that much difference in the fire. Sounds like it did very well overnight ,another indication its pretty air tight.

 

[slickschoppers]

from what I'm reading on the forum, (i'm new to wood burning but i'm reading everything I can on the forum) outside temp will affect how it works too.

Yesterday was kind of unseasonably warm here in Iowa. it was in the 40's during the day. today it is colder, in the 30's and the stove seems to be working better, this weekend is suppose to be in the 20's.

i'll keep trying different settings, also I'll be testing the wood for moisture, I did pick up a moisture meter, now I just have to read up on how you get the most accurate readings on wood.

I don't want to blame the stove for anything and it is a "wood not dry enough" issue, I've seen from reading the forum that seems to be the biggest mistake from guys like me that are new to wood burning.

right now I'm burning ash and maple I bought from a local guy split into small cords.

and Elm that is from my property, that has been standing dead with no bark on any of the tree for 3 years. I'm only burning the very top branches that were so dry they were splitting down the sides. if my moisture meter is right, and i used it right, the elm pieces I have are right at 18%

 

[slickschoppers]

on the flue (chimney) i've read that it should be run hot to stop creosote build up. I get it to about 500 degrees, that's both my IR thermometer, and the magnetic thermometer readings. i'm taking that reading on single wall pipe 18" above the stove.

but,, once I shut the door and close the lever half way..... it's still burning good but the flue temps drop pretty fast. is that normal?

the wood is burning well, the stove says hot, but the chimney cools pretty quick.

is the chimney suppose to stay in that 300+ range all the way though the burn???? how much creosote do you get from coals when they are smoldering down? because once it gets down to coals the temp at 18" on the single wall connected to the stove is only about 150 degrees.

 

[Squisher]

You shouldn't have your door open that long. You should only ever crack the door to establish draft on a cold start and it should not need to be left open on reloads. With the door closed and the stove on high temps should soar, pipe temps that is.

 

[Seasoned Oak]

on the flue (chimney)

is the chimney suppose to stay in that 300+ range all the way though the burn???? how much creosote do you get from coals when they are smoldering down? because once it gets down to coals the temp at 18" on the single wall connected to the stove is only about 150 degrees.

Once your down to coals you will get almost no smoke or creosote. The flue pipe usually runs cooler as the fire progresses and the air is cut back. I check stove top temps more so than flue temps. 500 is on the high side ,usually when my stove top is 600 my flue temps are around 400 where it exits the stove down to 200 where it enters the chimney.

 

[slickschoppers]

Ill try the next re load with hot coals without leaving the door cracked and see how that works. I was just following the video i had seen on you tube and the manual.

tonight, i reloaded once it got hot seales and secondarys going it seemed to work pretty well... stove stayed at 566 single wall pipe was about 400 and running level for about 40 min so far.

i dont have a ton of hickory, but it seems to like it

I double checked moisture, all the wood is 20% or below...

 

[Highbeam]

You’re having fun, good. I have single wall above my nc30 and I try and keep stove top temperatures at 700 as measured at the hot spot right in the middle of the step up. Don’t go to 500 on the flue. 500 is the redline since class a chimney is only rated for 1000 degrees and external temperatures of single wall are half of internal. Spend most of the burn between 300 and 400 which corresponds with internal flue temps of 600 to 800 which as you may notice is about the same as stove top temps.

I quickly close the door and the draft to about 50% during warm up. Then farther in for cruise. Never closed fully. On my setup of 19’ total flue I can easily snuff the fire if I push the draft rod all the way in. I like that!

I load the thing to the top every time and run it hard. At full output it will consume a full load every three hours. She’s a hungry beast.

 

[begreen]

Note - very few people report running the 30NC this way. It was not designed as a shop furnace, but to it's credit it stands up to it.

 

[Highbeam]

Note - very few people report running the 30NC this way. It was not designed as a shop furnace, but to it's credit it stands up to it.

Again bg, I’m running the stove per the manual within all safe limits. It’s being run as it was designed. You don’t seem to understand that stoves have variable output levels and that it is okay to use all of them so long as you burn clean, burn safe, and follow the directions.

Yes, I run my stove near the top of the available output range. Some go much hotter. It’s not a furnace it’s a stove.

 

[begreen]

Again bg, I’m running the stove per the manual within all safe limits. It’s being run as it was designed. You don’t seem to understand that stoves have variable output levels and that it is okay to use all of them so long as you burn clean, burn safe, and follow the directions.

Yes, I run my stove near the top of the available output range. Some go much hotter. It’s not a furnace it’s a stove.

Didn't say anything to the contrary, just that very few press the stove to the limits in this manner. Most get much longer burn times out of a load of wood.
My truck would be a very hungry beast if I drove it at 90mph every day, but by nature it isn't.

 

[jwfirebird]

in the manual it says to put it on the side, in front of the shield. i keep those in the happy 4-500 range, i have checked pipe is normally like 150 to 200 less most times. ash is all i have. if its less than 30 everything works really well, the door you can close quick and shut it down to low, cant leave mine on high it will go way past. but i want the long burn time any way. warmer temps not so much, i dont have very much chimney but when its 40-50+ have to leave it open for an hour or so and leave on high for another hour then put it on low after that

 

[venator260]

Note - very few people report running the 30NC this way. It was not designed as a shop furnace, but to it's credit it stands up to it.

Ever look at the Englander 28-4000? It looks to me like they put a 30nc in a cabinet with a big fan and made a furnace.

Also, to illustrate the variability of setups; when it gets cold, I shut the primary air as far as it goes, turn on the blower, and will sometimes have to use the key damper on the pipe to keep the stove top under 800 degrees. My door gasket passes the dollar bill test, however, I have 25 feet of (apparently well insulated) outdoor chimney with a flexible liner installed that provides excellent draft.

 

[slickschoppers]

I'm running about 16 feet of chimney, 7 feet of single wall inside, 9 feet of class A.

I do have another 3 feet of class A that I have on hand in case I need it to increase draft, or the pipe just doesn't work at that length. (I read on these forums of people having to add to the chimney to get a good draft so I figured I should have an extra 3 feet on hand if I don't use it I can take it back)

 

[slickschoppers]

ok, this is the video I found on this forum that I was following.

once the stove is up to temp, and the flue is 450 / 500 I close the door, and adjust the lever, and the flue temp drops down to cruising at around 350 / 400 and the stove about 500 - 600

does that seem ok and safe????

Highbeam you said not to run the flue at 500, but is it ok to "tap" 500 on initial cold start up for just a few minutes?

I don't want to over fire anything or run the stove unsafe....


Here is the video I watched.

 

[Highbeam]

ok, this is the video I found on this forum that I was following.

once the stove is up to temp, and the flue is 450 / 500 I close the door, and adjust the lever, and the flue temp drops down to cruising at around 350 / 400 and the stove about 500 - 600

does that seem ok and safe????

Highbeam you said not to run the flue at 500, but is it ok to "tap" 500 on initial cold start up for just a few minutes?

I don't want to over fire anything or run the stove unsafe....


Here is the video I watched.

There is no reason to ever run your flue temps that high. The stove makes the heat, not the pipe. It’s like reving your car engine up to redline to warm it up faster or to “clean it out” every day. An unnecessary risk that wastes fuel.

I purposely run my nc30 to get high output and can do it without ever getting the pipe to such high temperatures.

Close the door! The open door dumps tons of cold air up the flue and prevents all of the well designed combustion air systems from feeding the fire. Very few stoves allow open door burning.

 

[slickschoppers]

will do. When I fire the stove up tonight, I will make the changes.


thanks for the help!

 

[kennyp2339]

Back to the leaking gasket issues, lets not forget another classic sign other than failing the dollar bill test and having an uncontrollable fire is also having an odd or not uniformed creosote mark on the glass due to a cool spot from air entering

 

[slickschoppers]

i tested the door last night with smoke, and a flame, the door is NOT drawing any noticeable air from around the seal. I believe I was premature in my assumption that the door is leaking air.

quite the contrary, I'm starting to think that I might not be drafting enough.

if the door is just slightly cracked, not OPEN, but just cracked enough for air to seep in around, I can get the flames good and hot on a fresh load of wood.. but the minute I shut the door, with the lever all the way out, the flames die down a huge amount and the fire does not keep getting hotter.....

If I leave the door cracked just enough to get the flue temp up in the 3 to 400 range,,, then I can shut the door and the flames drop a little but keep burning well...

then I move the lever to about half way (handle level with the ash door) and the secondaries will kick in.

If I close the lever all the way it will almost snuff out the fire

so the lever is working... the door seems to be sealing, I just don't know if I'm getting enough draft to create enough draw of fresh air into the stove.

the chimney is 16 to 17'. I'm starting to think I might try adding on the other 3' section of class A pipe I have to see if it draws better,,, or maybe it's the conditions around the house.

I live in about 50 yards from a river, surrounded by tall trees, and i'm in a very shallow valley. (Iowa i pretty much flat, so by valley I mean maybe 20 or 30 feet lower)

the only issue I seem to have is just the initial start up from cold. (say below 200 degree stove)

once it's warmed up,, it really seems to work well. it will hold the stove temp at 5 to 600 degrees F. and the chimney at 3 to 4 hundred. with the lever half in and the secondaries burned for a little over an hour last night.

 

[begreen]

Sounds like the stove is fine. It takes several fires under different conditions to get used to a stove's personality and how it will behave with different air settings, wood, and outside temps. Give yourself a month or two to get used to it. Have you tried top down starting the fire? That warms up the flue much quicker.
http://woodheat.org/top-down-steps.html

 

[slickschoppers]

Begreen, i have not tried a top down start yet.

I will give that a try on the next cold start.

 

[venator260]

Are you shutting down in stages or all at once? Especially on a cold start, shoving the lever in half way all at once may be too much. I get the load going with a decent flame, and then shut the door and leave it wide open for awhile. If you're killing the flames when you close the draft, you may be closing it too much too quickly. Both stoves I run won't switch quickly from burning on the primary air to being choked down and burning mostly with the secondaries which is the end goal.

I've also found that doing things this way and coming up upon my target stove top temp somewhat slowly keeps my pipe temps lower, and reduces the likelihood of running up the temps, needing to shut way down, and then the flue temp falling too much and draft stalling.

To put it a shorter way, it's not like cooking where one boils the water and then turns down to a simmer, rather, I've found it's better to come up to your operating temp in a deliberately slow manner.